League decision may be expected as late as Wednesday?

[Covert Rain]

Decision might not come down until Tomorrow

NBA: Decision on Horry-Nash fracas could come today or Wednesday

Craig Morgan, Tribune

An NBA spokesperson said today that the incident between Robert Horry and Steve Nash that took place with 18.4 seconds remaining in Game 4 is currently under review, but there is no guarantee a decision will be made today -- only that it will be made prior to Game 5, meaning it could come Wednesday.

Horry body-checked Nash into the scorer's table late in the Suns' come-from-behind, 104-98 win in San Antonio that evened their best-of-seven Western Conference semifinal at 2-2.

Horry was ejected and could face a suspension, but the latter fate also may befall Suns Amare Stoudemire and Boris Diaw, who both left the bench to go after Horry after the check.

NBA rules prohibit players from leaving the bench during an altercation and make it plain that violators will be suspended without pay for a minimum of one game and fined $35,000.

Stoudemire insisted after the game that he was headed to the scorer's table to check into the game. Game 5 is Wednesday at 7:30 p.m. at US Airways Center in Phoenix.

 

[SactownSunsFan]

I should hopefully be there if I win this Ebay auction.

Which ebay auction? I wanna bid too!

 

[D-Dogg]

Diaw and Stoudemire should have known better, no question. Still, their franchise guy was down. They didn't know whether he was hurt, or how badly. They reacted, then unreacted, with the idea of sticking up for Nash.

Adding to the emotion is the behind-the-woodshed treatment Nash has received the whole series, and it's not surprising their first thought wasn't, "Oh, golly, I better stay here and let the authorities handle it."

So tough call, NBA, but not really."

That is a silly argument...they should have known better, but it was a bad situation.

Everything the writer outlines there is exactly WHY the rule is in place...to prevent people not in the game from turning an "altercation" into a brawl. Does anyone remember the Knicks/Heat games? Bench clearing fights...the NBA cracked down...now if they alter their stance because it came after a hard foul it's very hypocritical and against the intent of the rule in the first place.

Yes, they should have known better, but you don't let them off the hook because it's been a physical series. If they should have known better, they shouldn't have done it.

It isn't a tough call...it should be very easy. the fact it is taking so long is working in the Suns favor though...but if the league doesn't suspend Amare for a game then it might as well throw that rule out the window.

 

[CardNots]

NBA: Decision on Horry-Nash fracas could come today or Wednesday

Craig Morgan, Tribune

Horry was ejected and could face a suspension, but the latter fate also may befall Suns Amare Stoudemire and Boris Diaw, who both left the bench to go after Horry after the check.

Where has it been proven they left the bench to go after Horry. Wow, hard to believe. It is more feasible they were going to see how Nash was doing and to what was the extent of the damage.

 

[elindholm]

Where has it been proven they left the bench to go after Horry. Wow, hard to believe. It is more feasible they were going to see how Nash was doing and to what was the extent of the damage.

Actually, if you watch the video, it's very clear that they were going toward Nash, not Horry. It's entirely unambiguous.

 

[az1965]

Actually, Amare started to walk towards the entangled Horry, Raja and other guys but was immediately grabed by Ivaroni and pushed back towards the bench. Watch closely as he takes a step or two and then was immediately held.

 

[mribnik]

Well, the league just decided not to suspend Baron Davis for his actions. Hopefully that's a sign of things to come.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

once again it is irrelevant what a players intentions are when leaving the bench

players have been suspended for being 90 feet from the play and putting one foot on the court - if you listened to the jalen rose cut in it's entirety you can also here him say he's been suspended for doing just that - he also wouldn't be alone

the rule doesn't say "come onto the court with the intent to escalate a fight, to throw a punch, to molest a donkey, et al" - it simply states to come onto the court

 

[quick dog]

The real problem, in my opinion, is that Popovich incourages his expendable bench players to antagonize opposing starters. Bowen, as a starter, has a remarkable record of avoiding League sanctions. Bowen, Ginobili, and Horry have a history of this stuff, but Popovich is the problem.

If this were the NFL or NHL, player-sanctioned retribution would have occurred along time ago. Bowen would probably be functioning with artificial limbs today. The NBA, as it should be, is highly structured and controlled. These athletes can be very dangerous.

 

[F-Dog]

No surprise the NBA is dragging its feet--Stern is in a no-win situation, having to choose between his beloved rule and the future of the league.

I still think he'll stick with his precious, but I don't doubt he's been hearing from a lot of owners over the last few hours, advising him to go the other way.

 

[Covert Rain]

once again it is irrelevant what a players intentions are when leaving the bench

players have been suspended for being 90 feet from the play and putting one foot on the court - if you listened to the jalen rose cut in it's entirety you can also here him say he's been suspended for doing just that - he also wouldn't be alone

the rule doesn't say "come onto the court with the intent to escalate a fight, to throw a punch, to molest a donkey, et al" - it simply states to come onto the court

Once again. It must not be. These are Stu Jackson's own words from a previous ruling:

"In this circumstance, our judgment was that the players who left the bench were attempting to break up the fight and did not escalate the altercation.''

Those players did not receive a suspension from the Lakers Kings fight. Also, in that game it doesn't matter that people were in the tunnel or not. The rule states leaving the vicinity of the bench area. It doesn't matter if it's behind, to the side, on the court or in a tunnel. Bottom line is that leaving the bench obviously is not an automatic suspension and there is some room for a judgment.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

that was an altercation that occured AFTER a game - where else are the players supposed to go?

are they supposed to stay on the bench once the game is over?

that is what made that situation unique

 

[mribnik]

So Davis was given a Flagrant 2 I guess but not suspended. I wonder if that means they are planning on not suspending anybody, including Horry.

 

[Chaplin]

once again it is irrelevant what a players intentions are when leaving the bench

players have been suspended for being 90 feet from the play and putting one foot on the court - if you listened to the jalen rose cut in it's entirety you can also here him say he's been suspended for doing just that - he also wouldn't be alone

the rule doesn't say "come onto the court with the intent to escalate a fight, to throw a punch, to molest a donkey, et al" - it simply states to come onto the court

No, it says "leaves the VICINITY of the bench". How is that defined, when Boris never stepped foot onto the court?

 

[Covert Rain]

No, it says "leaves the VICINITY of the bench". How is that defined, when Boris never stepped foot onto the court?

Not only that, show me where it is defined how many feet exactly does vicinity equal. Is there a defined zone? Obviously, the league left it vague for a reason.

that was an altercation that occured AFTER a game - where else are the players supposed to go?

are they supposed to stay on the bench once the game is over?

that is what made that situation unique

Clearly in the eyes of the league it was viewed as an in game situation....hence the statement about players leaving the bench.

 

[sunsfn]

So Davis was given a Flagrant 2 I guess but not suspended. I wonder if that means they are planning on not suspending anybody, including Horry.

A flagrant foul 2 is 2 points against you, it takes 3 to get suspended.
A flagrant foul 1 is 1 point and no suspension.

That is why Davis did not get suspended, and probably not Horry!

So, how about this, no suspension for Horry, but Amare and Diaw are suspended because they left the bench!!

They will not get suspended, it is not going to happen, it was not that bad of a fight.

 

[tobiazz]

Everything the writer outlines there is exactly WHY the rule is in place...to prevent people not in the game from turning an "altercation" into a brawl.

If the rule is in place solely to prevent brawls and Stoudemire is affected by the rule when he was not involved in a brawl, then the rule is not serving its intended purpose. I always thought it was an idiotic rule from its inception. It's human nature, a survival instinct, to get a view of what's happening and prepare for action.

The fact that the altercation remained limited to the guys who were in the game should be commended. There was no brawl; noone was in physical danger (aside from Nash). What an unnatural, emasculating rule. Kill it. Give Horry a one game suspension for instigating the altercation (his move was the only one that could have caused injury), and forget about his elbow (I haven't watched it, BTW) to Raja. That's it. If he does it again during these playoffs, give him 2-3 days off. This is an example of why blind adherence to law is generally worse than common sense applied to guidelines. Analogies are often problematic, but I'll give you one anyway. Let's say some guy gives your girlfriend a forearm shiver right in front of a police officer. How can you not retaliate? According to the law, you should sit down and let the police officer take care of the situation lest you be charged with assault. As a man, I don't think I could have that sort of restraint nor do I think it should be required.

It's a shame that we can't just sit back and enjoy the play on the court without worrying about these extracurricular events. I've noticed football and baseball are less dominated by subjective officiating and, thus, are much less stressful to watch. (Strike zones and holding calls can be frustrating, but not to the degree that basketball [non]calls are. The other sports appear much more consistent to me.)

 

[jbeecham]

Let's say some guy gives your girlfriend a forearm shiver right in front of a police officer. How can you not retaliate? According to the law, you should sit down and let the police officer take care of the situation lest you be charged with assault.

I guess that depends on how much you like your girlfriend........

 

[D-Dogg]

If the rule is in place solely to prevent brawls and Stoudemire is affected by the rule when he was not involved in a brawl, then the rule is not serving its intended purpose. I always thought it was an idiotic rule from its inception. It's human nature, a survival instinct, to get a view of what's happening and prepare for action.

The fact that the altercation remained limited to the guys who were in the game should be commended. There was no brawl; noone was in physical danger (aside from Nash). What an unnatural, emasculating rule. Kill it. Give Horry a one game suspension for instigating the altercation (his move was the only one that could have caused injury), and forget about his elbow (I haven't watched it, BTW) to Raja. That's it. If he does it again during these playoffs, give him 2-3 days off. This is an example of why blind adherence to law is generally worse than common sense applied to guidelines. Analogies are often problematic, but I'll give you one anyway. Let's say some guy gives your girlfriend a forearm shiver right in front of a police officer. How can you not retaliate? According to the law, you should sit down and let the police officer take care of the situation lest you be charged with assault. As a man, I don't think I could have that sort of restraint nor do I think it should be required.

It's a shame that we can't just sit back and enjoy the play on the court without worrying about these extracurricular events. I've noticed football and baseball are less dominated by subjective officiating and, thus, are much less stressful to watch. (Strike zones and holding calls can be frustrating, but not to the degree that basketball [non]calls are. The other sports appear much more consistent to me.)

I do not disagree with you, at all. I think the rule is dumb and you are right.

However, it is a rule that has been enforced strongly for years, and they can't simply toss it out at this moment. In the offseason they can change it or remove it, but you can't just say "in this case, we won't apply it." They would lose what little credibility and control they have in the league office.

 

[Chaplin]

I do not disagree with you, at all. I think the rule is dumb and you are right.

However, it is a rule that has been enforced strongly for years, and they can't simply toss it out at this moment. In the offseason they can change it or remove it, but you can't just say "in this case, we won't apply it." They would lose what little credibility and control they have in the league office.

That is just going WAAAAY overboard. What credibility would they lose? Does that make the players assume that they can charge into fights? NO, because there was no fight in this instance. Who is the league so worried about losing credibility with? Spurs fans? Suns fans?

The fact of the matter is, it is NOT a black and white issue, and you can damn well be sure that the Player's Union would file a grievance against the league if suspensions are handed down to anyone except Horry. So who exactly are the league execs worried about losing credibility with?

 

[tobiazz]

I guess that depends on how much you like your girlfriend........

Let's say your girlfriend was giving you a great shot to win an NBA championship

 

[D-Dogg]

That is just going WAAAAY overboard. What credibility would they lose? Does that make the players assume that they can charge into fights? NO, because there was no fight in this instance. Who is the league so worried about losing credibility with? Spurs fans? Suns fans?

The fact of the matter is, it is NOT a black and white issue, and you can damn well be sure that the Player's Union would file a grievance against the league if suspensions are handed down to anyone except Horry. So who exactly are the league execs worried about losing credibility with?

They've enforced the rule the same way for years, playoffs or not. They've done it for so much as a foot being on the court. If they change their scorched earth policy, you can bet there will be grievances filed...because they changed a rule in midstream and that is unfair to all who have been penalized for it in the past.

 

[Chaplin]

They've enforced the rule the same way for years, playoffs or not. They've done it for so much as a foot being on the court. If they change their scorched earth policy, you can bet there will be grievances filed...because they changed a rule in midstream and that is unfair to all who have been penalized for it in the past.

That's a cop-out. There has been many exceptions to the rule, and you know it, some of which have been posted within the last day on this board. So don't conveniently forget that.

If they don't suspend anyone, including Horry, do you honestly believe a grievance will be filed? By who? The Spurs? I don't see them filing a grievance for this. It's ridiculous. If Amare and Diaw are not suspended, do you think the Spurs will cry about it?

 

[D-Dogg]

There has been many exceptions to the rule, and you know it, some of which have been posted within the last day on this board. So don't conveniently forget that.

There was one exception. After a game (a preseason game) was over with an altercation in the tunnel area, Lakers/Kings with Fox involved.

Amare was drug back to the bench by four coaches, don't conveniently forget that, either.

You are really viewing this issue with your heart, Chap. That's ok.

 

[Chaplin]

There was one exception. After a game (a preseason game) was over with an altercation in the tunnel area, Lakers/Kings with Fox involved.

Amare was drug back to the bench by four coaches, don't conveniently forget that, either.

You are really viewing this issue with your heart, Chap. That's ok.

And you're not viewing the issue realistically at all.