Learn from the Browns...

[JCSunsfan]

First responsibility for any NFL team--get the absolute best QB you possibly can. Everything else falls in behind that.

 

[DVontel]

u bring on the table the same stuff

Murray height
Goff comparison
Rosen bad cast around
Bad coaching

God helps those who help themselves

Rosen didn't help himself
Teammates didn't help him, coaches didn't help him, but his bad plays didn't help anyone

He brings a valid point about the Goff question though.

 

[juza76]

He brings a valid point about the Goff question though.

We don't know yet if it is a valid point, at the moment its just a fans hope

 

[Jetstream Green]

Learning from the recent history of the Browns... you mean throwing a bunch of crap at the wall and see what sticks

 

[GuernseyCard]

u bring on the table the same stuff

Murray height
Goff comparison
Rosen bad cast around
Bad coaching

God helps those who help themselves

Rosen didn't help himself
Teammates didn't help him, coaches didn't help him, but his bad plays didn't help anyone

And based on this your answer is to use the first pick of the draft on a mini-me QB?

 

[GuernseyCard]

We don't know yet if it is a valid point, at the moment its just a fans hope

And the only way to know is to test it.

Better that in 2019 than giving up on a 22 year old that cost a premium and not getting the consensus #1 player in the draft to test out whether the KM
hype is valid.

 

[Jetstream Green]

And based on this your answer is to use the first pick of the draft on a mini-me QB?

I am seriously intrigued by Murray but where he played and what was required of him leaves so many damn questions. I guess he's accurate but seldom did he play where his accuracy could really be examined considering the space around his WRs. Can he read a defense except for a quick 2 progression read? I don't know if he was ever required to do so to let anyone get a great evaluation. It's a bunch of do you think he is capable provided he did not have to. I really do not care about his height because the new NFL allows him to play being extremely short (yes, I think calling him 5'10 is still a farce but this does not matter any longer). You cannot use his high school tenure for actual QB judgement because they ran nothing close to a pro offense either, but you can acknowledge he has the 'it' factor going for him. How much of a Air Raid offense are we gong to run because I do not think even Kliff knows what is a perfect mesh yet in the pros. I do know or rather think Rosen can run a variety of offenses

 

[TRW]

If KK is 100% sure that Murray is his guy, then the Cards need to pick him. They have invested in him as HC and should maybe "let him buy the groceries" as Parcells would say. If there's any doubt, they need to grab Bosa and see what Josh can do for one more season. I'm really OK either way.

If they trade out and repeat the Suggs draft 16 years ago I will vomit.

 

[GuernseyCard]

I am seriously intrigued by Murray but where he played and what was required of him leaves so many damn questions. I guess he's accurate but seldom did he play where his accuracy could really be examined considering the space around his WRs. Can he read a defense except for a quick 2 progression read? I don't know if he was ever required to do so to let anyone get a great evaluation. It's a bunch of do you think he is capable provided he did not have to. I really do not care about his height because the new NFL allows him to play being extremely short (yes, I think calling him 5'10 is still a farce but this does not matter any longer). You cannot use his high school tenure for actual QB judgement because they ran nothing close to a pro offense either, but you can acknowledge he has the 'it' factor going for him. How much of a Air Raid offense are we gong to run because I do not think even Kliff knows what is a perfect mesh yet in the pros. I do know or rather think Rosen can run a variety of offenses

I wouldn't invest the #1 pick to assuage my curiosity.

 

[Jetstream Green]

If KK is 100% sure that Murray is his guy, then the Cards need to pick him. They have invested in him as HC and should maybe "let him buy the groceries" as Parcells would say. If there's any doubt, they need to grab Bosa and see what Josh can do for one more season. I'm really OK either way.

If they trade out and repeat the Suggs draft 16 years ago I will vomit.

I concur sir on KK and the QB position

 

[Fiasco]

What’s the over/under and on how many times the Murray question will he reframed and regurgitated as a new topic before the draft?

 

[GuernseyCard]

If KK is 100% sure that Murray is his guy, then the Cards need to pick him. They have invested in him as HC and should maybe "let him buy the groceries" as Parcells would say. If there's any doubt, they need to grab Bosa and see what Josh can do for one more season. I'm really OK either way.

If they trade out and repeat the Suggs draft 16 years ago I will vomit.

Well, he can't be 100% certain about Murray.

But, if they don't pick Bosa, the bright side is that after making life miserable for Cards QB's for a decade, he may sign here for his farewell tour of the League.

 

[Jetstream Green]

The bolded are all excellent. Really like how you used the hypothetical of Bosa being in last years draft, and how you combined that with a other important parallels to last year.

Then driving home the point that, while making the playoffs is nice, losing the last game of a season sucks, and what we really need is a Lombardy Trophy.

Something that has been overlooked a little is that Murray is a gamer. This past season, I watched him lead desperate comebacks against both TX and AL. In the end, his defensive teammates let him down, but my point is that being behind on the scoreboard substantially (21 vs TX and 28 vs AL) only energized him. Made him take his game up another level.

He's on the quiet side, but the competitive fire burns brightly within him. JosiahLee, I think he has the talent to win a Superbowl, but perhaps just as importantly, I think he has the desire to win a Superbowl.

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[Crimson Warrior]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Pretty cool.

That was nice throw off his back foot to win the game.

During the game he took two really nasty shots too, and got up off the deck to lead the comeback. Showed some toughness.

 

[JosiahLee]

Josiah - If the Jets had hired KK instead of the Cardinals, would you advocate that they take Murray when they have Darnold?

and...would you still take Murray if you were the Jets now (with Gase as HC)?

That’s a great question. I do believe the key to maximizing Murray’s incredible potential is putting him in the right system.

If KK was hired by the Jets and he was in love with Murray you have to strongly consider it as ownership...To answer your question directly I would say yes, draft Murray.

Also, just throwing this out there but Rosen finished last in rookie qbr ratings with 66.7 (Darnold finished 2nd with a rating of 77.6 while Mayfield led all rookies with a rating of 93.7). With that said I believe Rosen and Darnold have the potential to be effective starters in this league.

 

[JosiahLee]

Nope...just pointing out they weren't coming off a top 10 QB draft pick.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

I really don’t think last year matters at the end of the day...Using that same logic the Cardinals made the right choice passing on Adrian Peterson to draft Levi Briwn because they really needed offensive line help.

 

[Solar7]

I really don’t think last year matters at the end of the day...Using that same logic the Cardinals made the right choice passing on Adrian Peterson to draft Levi Briwn because they really needed offensive line help.

I mean, he was our starting left tackle for the franchise's only Super Bowl...

Not saying that makes everything right, but he was a stable player for a team that had nothing else.

Last year matters because we gave up three picks for the player we have now. We're staring down the barrel of spending four picks for a risky 5'10 QB with questionable dedication to the sport right now.

 

[JosiahLee]

You cannot compare the situations at all. The Browns under Sashi Brown had passed on ***** and Goff and the owner dictated to draft Manziel over Carr and they HAD no quarterback when they took Mayfield.

This team has to evealuate Rosen against Murray.

Browns: Bosa + nothing at QB vs. actually having a franchise quarterback on the roster
Cardinals: Bosa + Rosen vs. Murray

Yet they took Mayfield (the short qb who wasn’t prototypical yet dominated in college) not Darnold, or Rosen, or Allen.

 

[JosiahLee]

How can you not see that 5`10 QBs are almost never successful in the NFL.How can you not see that expecting Murray to be a successful QB is betting against the odds.Being a good QB in the NFL is hard enough to do anyway.Being a shorter ,smaller QB isn`t making things easier.AS for the awe-inspiring ability to not be hit do you really think that will be the case in the NFl.Sure the kid has talent..but I don`t want my team to risk screwing up the top pick in the draft by taking a longer chance on a risky QB when a RD 1 QB is already on the team and there are safer options available for the top pick.The GUy who is considered top Defensive pick (Bosa) or Qiunnen Williams (who is rated highly). might not be the sexy,flashy ,media hype frenzy pick but IMO either of those two are the safer smarter pick than Murray.

I don’t think taking Bosa, Williams, or even Allen is unintelligent...In fact I would agree it is even a safer option. Yet I still think though Murray has a lower floor than Rosen his ceiling is so much higher.

None of us can ever know if a prospect is going to pan out in the NFL...But based on my gut, sign me up for Murray.

Side note, I liked Mayfield over all qbs coming out last year. The year before Deshaun Watson was my #1 qb over Trubisky & Mahomes...In hindsight I would have obviously taken Mahomes.

 

[JosiahLee]

So after Goff's less than stellar year one, you believe the Rams should have found some way to draft Trubisky, Mahomes or Watson?

That’s a fair take. However after watching Goff in the Super Bowl I can’t help but feel he’s hit his ceiling and would predict that there is a regression coming. My gut says McVay’s magic has already done it’s best work.

 

[Lagerfilled]

I mean, he was our starting left tackle for the franchise's only Super Bowl...

No he wasn’t! More #fakenews

Levi was the RT. Mike Gandy was the starting LT in the Super Bowl. It wasn’t until Arians got here that we heard about Levi being an “elite” LT.

 

[Solar7]

No he wasn’t! More #fakenews

Levi was the RT. Mike Gandy was the starting LT in the Super Bowl. It wasn’t until Arians got here that we heard about Levi being an “elite” LT.

Sorry, sorry, you're right there. Still a part of one of the better OLs we've had in a long time.

(Man... ten years...)

 

[JosiahLee]

Thank you, holy crap.

"Learn from the Browns?" I'm choking on my water. The team sputtered miserably for years and has a quarterback that looked kinda good for a bunch of games that didn't matter. Their head coaches and GMs lost their jobs in the process.

Baker Mayfield is not yet a savior. Nor is Murray.

I know it’s laughable to suggest learning from the Browns but the reasons you state is why I respect what they are doing...They removed a GM & HC who weren’t producing, and took a risk on a qb that many wouldn’t have the guts to pick at #1.

 

[JosiahLee]

I mean, he was our starting left tackle for the franchise's only Super Bowl...

Not saying that makes everything right, but he was a stable player for a team that had nothing else.

Last year matters because we gave up three picks for the player we have now. We're staring down the barrel of spending four picks for a risky 5'10 QB with questionable dedication to the sport right now.

At the time Keim was applauded for having to give up so little to acquire Rosen (swapping 1st rd picks & then giving up a 3rd & a 5th).

I don’t mind if they don't draft Murray because they believe his game won’t translate to the NFL. But I have a problem if they love Murray but don’t draft him because of the financial implications of having to trade Rosen or because they can collect a few additional picks by trading out of the #1 spot...I think that’s a decision that has the potential to haunt Keim forever.

If you're gonna strike out, do it swinging.

 

[Solar7]

I know it’s laughable to suggest learning from the Browns but the reasons you state is why I respect what they are doing...They removed a GM & HC who weren’t producing, and took a risk on a qb that many wouldn’t have the guts to pick at #1.

They kept the HC throughout the process and now have promoted a guy to HC that was a part of the failing staff based off of a half season of interim work. I like Freddie, but this one is worth watching through a lens made of pink Himalayan sea salt.