Least talented top 10 offense?

[BigRedRage]

we have quite a bit of talent, just having trouble putting it together.

 

[Chopper0080]

No I don't believe that.

I think we have plenty of talent but some rather poor, conservative coaching and a pedestrian play book.

Kyler has not played well and our offense has struggled because of it. This is what a 2nd year QB normally has to overcome. The league has taken away what Kyler likes to do and has taken away his security blanket. Now KYLER has to show he can win sitting in the pocket, dissecting defenses in the middle of the field, and executing long sustained drives.

People on here complaining about Hopkins not going deep, but Gilmore was playing him off all game with S help over the top. They were purposefully taking away the deep ball because Kyler has shown to be a streaky passer who gets impatient.

 

[Chopper0080]

we have quite a bit of talent, just having trouble putting it together.

Which is a young QB thing in my opinion (which is normal for those who may lose their minds over it).

 

[BritCard]

Kyler has not played well and our offense has struggled because of it. This is what a 2nd year QB normally has to overcome. The league has taken away what Kyler likes to do and has taken away his security blanket. Now KYLER has to show he can win sitting in the pocket, dissecting defenses in the middle of the field, and executing long sustained drives.

People on here complaining about Hopkins not going deep, but Gilmore was playing him off all game with S help over the top. They were purposefully taking away the deep ball because Kyler has shown to be a streaky passer who gets impatient.

He hasn't played well, but is it chicken or egg?

If Kyler not playing well because teams now know our rather limited offensive system and can quite easily take it away? Or are the opportunities there and Kyler just isn't finding them?

I haven't had time to watch the tape yet but my feeling is that it's the former, simply because I think most of us have known for some time that there wasn't a lot of variety in this offense. It's largely been a run Kyler, throw to the sidelines offense for some time.

 

[cardncubfan]

except we’re not even close to being the least talented top 10 offense in the league.

We have a dynamic Nunber 1 pick at QB who is a dual threat unlike any other in the top ten.

We have the best WR in the game.

we have the sixth highest rushing RB.

we have a very good 3rd down back/backup running back.

And are you saying Fitz and Kirk suck? They’re not incredible #2 and 3 WRs, but they’re good enough considering all the other weapons.

I'm saying we have decent talent & a good coach who is learning on the job.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm saying we have decent talent & a good coach who is learning on the job.

If we are the least talented top 10 offense that could only mean we have a good coach could it not?

which is it cub? We’re the least talented top 10 offense and that’s proof that Kliff is doing a good job? If it’s this, I’d love for you to tell me how the Rams, Indy and Steelers have better offensive talent. Remember, you’re the guy who thought Carson Palmer was better than Big Ben.

or does Coach in Training Kliff have decent tools to work and that’s why the offense is good?

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

jesus. That’s massive spin. Bottom line... two weeks ago we had a QB playing an MVP Level, the Best WR in the game, a stable of productive runnings backs and some guys at WR.

and why are you comparing us against two years ago? You should be comparing us...

forget it. You’re right. An offense with a Nunber 1 pick at QB, the best WR in the game, the sixth highest rushing leader in the game, a good 3rd down back behind him is really talent deficient.

Yes and our QB is playing with an injury and our DLine is decimated. In spite of those injuries we are still playing competitive football.

Things aren’t perfect by a long shot, but it’s not like the team has suddenly fallen apart. They are still giving themselves a chance to win every single week regardless how good the opposing team is.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yes and our QB is playing with an injury and our DLine is decimated. In spite of those injuries we are still playing competitive football.

Things aren’t perfect by a long shot, but it’s not like the team has suddenly fallen apart. They are still giving themselves a chance to win every single week regardless how good the opposing team is.

You realize I’m not arguing ANY of that. This is a discussion about offensive weapons on the team.

 

[DVontel]

which is it cub? We’re the least talented top 10 offense and that’s proof that Kliff is doing a good job? If it’s this, I’d love for you to tell me how the Rams, Indy and Steelers have better offensive talent. Remember, you’re the guy who thought Carson Palmer was better than Big Ben.

or does Coach in Training Kliff have decent tools to work and that’s why the offense is good?

We obviously have the best player in Nuk, but as a whole, I do think the Rams have the better receiving options over us. I do think Kupp/Woods/Higbee/Everett/Reynolds is better than Fitz/Kirk/Isabella/Maxx/Arnold by a long shot.

We have the edge in RBs, but I do think they have a very promising player in Cam Akers & Henderson has shown to be a very competent player himself.


I’m with you on Indy.

 

[Cheesebeef]

We obviously have the best player in Nuk, but as a whole, I do think the Rams have the better receiving options over us. I do think Kupp/Woods/Higbee/Everett/Reynolds is better than Fitz/Kirk/Isabella/Maxx/Arnold by a long shot.

We have the edge in RBs, but I do think they have a very promising player in Cam Akers & Henderson has shown to be a very competent player himself.


I’m with you on Indy.

they have Goff as their QB.

 

[DVontel]

they have Goff as their QB.

& the thread in which OP started is about skill-position players, no?

 

[Chopper0080]

He hasn't played well, but is it chicken or egg?

If Kyler not playing well because teams now know our rather limited offensive system and can quite easily take it away? Or are the opportunities there and Kyler just isn't finding them?

I haven't had time to watch the tape yet but my feeling is that it's the former, simply because I think most of us have known for some time that there wasn't a lot of variety in this offense. It's largely been a run Kyler, throw to the sidelines offense for some time.

I don't understand people's complaint about the system. Every week there are players who are schemed open or get open. The issue is that teams are forcing Kyler to do things he doesn't want or like to do. That is coaching 101. Facing a QB that likes to throw deep, take it away. Facing a QB who likes to get outside the pocket, keep him in. If he likes to roll one way, force him to roll the other way. If he likes to throw quick slants, have your defensive front get their hands up.

People act like this is rocket science, it isn't. This is what developing and being a young QB in the NFL looks like if you are not Patrick Mahomes.

 

[Yuma]

I don't understand people's complaint about the system. Every week there are players who are schemed open or get open. The issue is that teams are forcing Kyler to do things he doesn't want or like to do. That is coaching 101. Facing a QB that likes to throw deep, take it away. Facing a QB who likes to get outside the pocket, keep him in. If he likes to roll one way, force him to roll the other way. If he likes to throw quick slants, have your defensive front get their hands up.

People act like this is rocket science, it isn't. This is what developing and being a young QB in the NFL looks like if you are not Patrick Mahomes.

To go further, this is a second year QB and it is about him learning to adjust to those changes he is seeing now. When that happens, watch out!!!

 

[Chopper0080]

they have Goff as their QB.

When it comes to sitting in a pocket, reading a defense, and delivering the ball on time, Goff is better than Kyler right now.

 

[BritCard]

I don't understand people's complaint about the system. Every week there are players who are schemed open or get open. The issue is that teams are forcing Kyler to do things he doesn't want or like to do. That is coaching 101. Facing a QB that likes to throw deep, take it away. Facing a QB who likes to get outside the pocket, keep him in. If he likes to roll one way, force him to roll the other way. If he likes to throw quick slants, have your defensive front get their hands up.

People act like this is rocket science, it isn't. This is what developing and being a young QB in the NFL looks like if you are not Patrick Mahomes.

OK but where's the help? It's the coaches job to make the QBs life easier and increase their odds of success.

This one dimensional scheme isn't helping anyone. We've all watched it 11 times. We all know it's extremely reliant on a few basic concepts.

Take away sideline throws and Kyler running and you remove 2/3 of what we do. And Where's the motion? Moving Kyler out of the pocket to throw?

 

[cardpa]

Teams are starting to figure out how to take away things Murray does well and likes to do. If I recall correctly, didn't Kingsbury made a statement at one point that he goes over the game plan with Murray and let's him decide which plays he doesn't like and they throw them out or something along these lines? That alone may be partly why the offense is limited or why it's getting stale.

 

[daves]

Funny - last year, many people on here thought Drake sucked and the O-line was one of the worst in the league. Even now, we know the TEs are below average and the WRs after Hopkins are below average at best.

But now that the offense is top 8, people are citing Drake's top-6 yardage totals as evidence that the team has plenty of RB talent, and calling the O-line very good (or even one of the best in the league!), and claiming that Kingsbury is holding them back, or only succeeding because of the great talent on O.

...dbs

 

[Chopper0080]

OK but where's the help? It's the coaches job to make the QBs life easier and increase their odds of success.

This one dimensional scheme isn't helping anyone. We've all watched it 11 times. We all know it's extremely reliant on a few basic concepts.

Take away sideline throws and Kyler running and you remove 2/3 of what we do. And Where's the motion? Moving Kyler out of the pocket to throw?

The help is the QB elevating his game. That is the growth and development. His ability to punish teams for taking those things away is how he opens them back up.

If Stephon Gilmore is going to Hopkins with 7 yards of cushion and S help over the top Kyler has to smash that out and then complete shots to other receivers down the field. That is how he beats it.

If teams are going to play S deep and give big areas in the deep middle, Kyler has to sit in the pocket, let those routes develop and complete those passes.

If teams are going to rush him up the field outside to keep him inside the pocket, he has to consistently beat that rush by moving up in the pocket and delivering the ball.

It is like in basketball. If you can't hit a perimeter shot, I am going to play off of you until you show me you can. There isn't a play that can be called to change that, it is up to the player to grow his game.

 

[TaylorSwift]

The help is the QB elevating his game. That is the growth and development. His ability to punish teams for taking those things away is how he opens them back up.

If Stephon Gilmore is going to Hopkins with 7 yards of cushion and S help over the top Kyler has to smash that out and then complete shots to other receivers down the field. That is how he beats it.

If teams are going to play S deep and give big areas in the deep middle, Kyler has to sit in the pocket, let those routes develop and complete those passes.

If teams are going to rush him up the field outside to keep him inside the pocket, he has to consistently beat that rush by moving up in the pocket and delivering the ball.

It is like in basketball. If you can't hit a perimeter shot, I am going to play off of you until you show me you can. There isn't a play that can be called to change that, it is up to the player to grow his game.

Poor game planning once again by kliff.


Kyler was hitting majority of the throws when he had to.


Kliff has done such a poor job that everyone is looking everywhere than at the source

 

[Chopper0080]

Poor game planning once again by kliff.


Kyler was hitting majority of the throws when he had to.


Kliff has done such a poor job that everyone is looking everywhere than at the source

lol...Kyler was 2 for 7 on passes more than 10 yards down the field vs the Patriots. So, your statement is just not true.

This is what defenses are looking at and their schemes reflect this. Only let Hopkins win short. Make Murray complete passes over 10 yards down the field middle to away from Hopkins.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[TaylorSwift]

lol...Kyler was 2 for 7 on passes more than 10 yards down the field vs the Patriots. So, your statement is just not true.

This is what defenses are looking at and their schemes reflect this. Only let Hopkins win short. Make Murray complete passes over 10 yards down the field middle to away from Hopkins.

You must be registered for see images attach

Fair but we would need to see the all 22 in order to see why these completions aren't taking place.


The next best options were christian Kirk and andy isabella, do you really trust those two to win their 1-1 matchups?

 

[Chopper0080]

Fair but we would need to see the all 22 in order to see why these completions aren't taking place.


The next best options were christian Kirk and andy isabella, do you really trust those two to win their 1-1 matchups?

Your last point is the real question. Is Kyler good enough to make Isabella and Kirk work when teams scheme to limit Hopkins and take away Kyler's legs? Or do we need a better player opposite of Hopkins because Kyler isn't refined enough to elevate average to below average players? If the first answer is yes, then Kyler didn't execute. If the answer to the second is yes, then the talent isn't keeping up with the scheme and play calling. Neither of those is a dysfunction of the plays called or the scheme.

 

[cardncubfan]

which is it cub? We’re the least talented top 10 offense and that’s proof that Kliff is doing a good job? If it’s this, I’d love for you to tell me how the Rams, Indy and Steelers have better offensive talent. Remember, you’re the guy who thought Carson Palmer was better than Big Ben.

or does Coach in Training Kliff have decent tools to work and that’s why the offense is good?

My first post was in response to those that want KK fired. The same ones are saying we are the least talented. How can we have a top offense with no talent & a terrible coach? All I'm saying is all of these things can't be true. Do you agree?

 

[WisconsinCard]

OK but where's the help? It's the coaches job to make the QBs life easier and increase their odds of success.

This one dimensional scheme isn't helping anyone. We've all watched it 11 times. We all know it's extremely reliant on a few basic concepts.

Take away sideline throws and Kyler running and you remove 2/3 of what we do. And Where's the motion? Moving Kyler out of the pocket to throw?

I could be mixing this up but wasn't it you that stated after watching the all-22 earlier in the year there were people being schemed open but k1 was just missing them? So are you now saying that is not happening? If so kk needs to make some adjustments as the d-cordinators have caught up to him. Or are you just jumping to conclusions week by week?

 

[BritCard]

The help is the QB elevating his game. That is the growth and development. His ability to punish teams for taking those things away is how he opens them back up.

If Stephon Gilmore is going to Hopkins with 7 yards of cushion and S help over the top Kyler has to smash that out and then complete shots to other receivers down the field. That is how he beats it.

If teams are going to play S deep and give big areas in the deep middle, Kyler has to sit in the pocket, let those routes develop and complete those passes.

If teams are going to rush him up the field outside to keep him inside the pocket, he has to consistently beat that rush by moving up in the pocket and delivering the ball.

It is like in basketball. If you can't hit a perimeter shot, I am going to play off of you until you show me you can. There isn't a play that can be called to change that, it is up to the player to grow his game.

Again, I don't disagree. But it's not Kyler bad OR Kliff bad.

They have both been bad.

But Kliff has to lay better foundations for Kyler to succeed. The limited scheme he's running is way too easy for defenses to stop, making it much harder for Kyler.

Jared Goff is a prime example. He's a limited QB that struggles at certain things. One of those things is sitting in the pocket, going through his reads and avoiding pressure. So McVay moves him around a bunch to help. You watch the Rams, and you will see it this weekend. Goff is running bootlegs or moving outside the pocket on probably a 3rd of his drop backs, minimum.

That's the HC adjusting his scheme to get the best out of his QB despite his limitations. Kliff isn't doing that.