Leinart Contract/Negotiations Discussion

[kerouac9]

I don't know about that, but I'll go to no end NOT pretending that I know what's going on in the Cards' front office, Condon's office, in the negotiations and how both sides use the media to spin the situation their way.

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[Sandan]

That the Cardinals didn't do everything they could to get Leinart in on time.

Speculation

That Rod Graves waited from Wednesday to Friday to return Tom Condon's phone call

Speculation

That the Cardinals waited until a week into camp before starting to negotiate with Condon.

Speculation

That for a solid week after that Condon was complaining in the media (something that he doesn't do and hasn't done before) that the Cardinals' negotiating tactic was to reply to each offer "'No," that's it, just, 'no.'"

Speculation and/or believing everything ML agent says

That it was only after two weeks of negotiating did Graves come out and say that their contract was above Ernie Sims' horrible deal.

So what, is RG supposed to negotiate using the media ?

That it wasn't until a week before the preseason game that negotiations had gotten to the point that the length of deal was decided on.

If true [speculation], so what. Your obvious implication here is that this is the fault of the Cardinals. Why is that ?

I swear, some of managment's apologists will go to no end to justify the incompetence of ownership here.

As you have said nothing, there is nothing to respond to.

 

[kerouac9]

Seriously, nidan, do you truly believe that Matt Leinart and Tom Condon sat down after the draft and said, "You know what, screw training camp and this team, let's hold out until the middle of the preseason"? Seriously? Is that what you think?

That it doesn't take two sides to instigate a holdout? That Graves/Mike/Bill Sr. could get Leinart into camp today if they wanted to? Do you really think that Leinart just doesn't want to join the team?

If you want to bury your head in the sand over every report that comes out except what Graves says, go ahead. But he's already lied once.

 

[Sandan]

K9, when you have something to add I'll comment.

Everything you post assumes the Cardinals are at fault and that that is largely caused by RG being incompetant and/or BB being cheap.

My point is simple. You may be correct, you may not be. Likely the truth is somewhere in the middle. You don't know and neither do I, all you have is speculation based on you personal bias which you presnt as truth/facts.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

K9, when you have something to add I'll comment.

Everything you post assumes the Cardinals are at fault and that that is largely caused by RG being incompetant and/or BB being cheap.

My point is simple. You may be correct, you may not be. Likely the truth is somewhere in the middle. You don't know and neither do I, all you have is speculation based on you personal bias which you presnt as truth/facts.

 

[kerouac9]

K9, when you have something to add I'll comment.

Everything you post assumes the Cardinals are at fault and that that is largely caused by RG being incompetant and/or BB being cheap.

My point is simple. You may be correct, you may not be. Likely the truth is somewhere in the middle. You don't know and neither do I, all you have is speculation based on you personal bias which you presnt as truth/facts.

Personal bias backed by many media reports (which aren't just made up regardless of your continuing insinuation that they are) and years of management incompetence.

Mao's right, nidan. Don't you think it's odd that the Cardinals have drafted greedy players in the first round every year for the past six years? How long has Rod Graves been negotiating first round deals, anyway?

Answer the question, nidan: Could Graves/Mike/Bill Sr. get Leinart into camp today if they wanted to?

 

[kerouac9]

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I fixed it for you.

 

[Rivercard]

Likely the truth is somewhere in the middle.

 

[Pariah]

Seems to me it's only the local media that's putting the blame on the Cards. Nationally all anyone's talking about it "what the hell is Leinart doing??"

I think there likely needs to be more movement from both sides, too.

 

[earthsci]

Seems to me it's only the local media that's putting the blame on the Cards. Nationally all anyone's talking about it "what the hell is Leinart doing??"

While I was driving around just now Gambo basically said, "This holdout is all on Leinart."

 

[Pariah]

While I was driving around just now Gambo basically said, "This holdout is all on Leinart."

Isn't Gambo a cards-basher for the most part? (I'm not local, so I've never heard him)

 

[Sandan]

Personal bias backed by many media reports (which aren't just made up regardless of your continuing insinuation that they are) and years of management incompetence.

Again you show your bias. I didn't say you where wrong, I just said you present your assumptions as facts and challenge me to refute thaose 'facts' with information I don't have [and neither do you]

You read whatever you want into mnedia reports. You discount the [few] reports from Cardinals sources, while believing anything that presents the Cardinals as the roadblock.

Mao's right, nidan. Don't you think it's odd that the Cardinals have drafted greedy players in the first round every year for the past six years? How long has Rod Graves been negotiating first round deals, anyway?

Maybe we should go back 10/20/40 years, keep going if you loom for enough statistics you can 'prove' anything. To suggest we haven't had problems in the past is obviously incorrect, you know this want to use it as a debating point.

What you fail to include is that in the past BB Snr was in control [regardless of his level of control now] and the Cardinals had a terrible revenue stream. Add the two together and you inevitably would have problems.

Answer the question, nidan: Could Graves/Mike/Bill Sr. get Leinart into camp today if they wanted to?

Possibly and eqaully possibly that would require joining Greggy, Neidermeyer and the rest of Omega house for their initation ceremony and that would make next years negotiations even tougher.

Again you don't know and neither do I.

 

[Sandan]

Isn't Gambo a cards-basher for the most part? (I'm not local, so I've never heard him)

Big time

 

[earthsci]

Isn't Gambo a cards-basher for the most part? (I'm not local, so I've never heard him)

Yes he is but his opinion is that Leinart's camp is causing the problems.

 

[devilfan02]

It's a fact now- $14 million guaranteed offered to Leinart. Hard to blame the Cards now

 

[Sandan]

What was the guaranteed cash for the first 9 picks ?

 

[BACH]

That it doesn't take two sides to instigate a holdout? That Graves/Mike/Bill Sr. could get Leinart into camp today if they wanted to? Do you really think that Leinart just doesn't want to join the team?

It does take two sides, but you seem to forget that more than anyone in this thread.

Fact: Leinart lost millions of dollars by staying at USC. He changed agent two weeks before the draft when he realized that he wasn't a lock in the top three. That agent is Condon. The agent that made the player, least concerned about money in the league (LT), hold out until the 2nd week of the season. The agent that was dropped by Ben Watson, because Watson felt the agent (representing his interests) was being totally unreasonable.

Fact: The Cardinals organisation has a bad reputation and has had a bad front office over the years. That have changed significantly for the better over the last couple of years. The FO might still not be up to par, but that FO did manage to get a #3 overall pick and a #8 overall pick in camp with only minor hold-outs.

These are the facts. I don't know any more facts than that AND you don't know anymore facts than that. So stop pretending that you have way more knowlegde about the situation than we do. Fact is! Neither of us know jack about the hold-up in the negotiations.

 

[kerouac9]

Possibly and eqaully possibly that would require joining Greggy, Neidermeyer and the rest of Omega house for their initation ceremony and that would make next years negotiations even tougher.

Again you don't know and neither do I.

Huh? So you're basically saying that Leinart is holding out because him and his agent want to hold out, and if the Cards offered $15 million guaranteed on a 5 year contract, you think they'd say no.

Seriously, if you don't think that anyone in the media can be believed, or that no one really knows what's going on in the negotiations, and that the truth is somewhere in the middle, and Matt's holdout doesn't matter, then why are you even posting here? What do you care?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

What was the guaranteed cash for the first 9 picks ?

#1 26.5 mil
#2 26.2
#3 25.74
#4 18
#5 16
#6 15
#7 15
#8 12.9
#9 12.1

*Not "guaranteed" to be exactly correct numbers.

 

[kerouac9]

#1 26.5 mil
#2 26.2
#3 25.74
#4 18
#5 16
#6 15
#7 15
#8 12.9
#9 12.1

*Not "guaranteed" to be exactly correct numbers.

What are the lengths of each contract? That's the other important number that needs to be looked at.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

What are the lengths of each contract? That's the other important number that needs to be looked at.

#1 26.5 mil - 6 year
#2 26.2 - 6 year
#3 25.74 - 6 year
#4 18 - 5 year
#5 16 - 6 year
#6 15 - 5 year
#7 15 - 5 year
#8 12.9 - 5 year
#9 12.1 5 year

*Not "guaranteed" to be exactly correct numbers.

**Edited for K9

 

[Evil Ash]

What are the lengths of each contract? That's the other important number that needs to be looked at.

1 - 6 years
2 - 6 years
3 - 6 years (6th year is an option)
4 - 5 years
5 - 6 years
6 - ?? (Foxsports doesn't have that one)
7 - 5 years
8 - 5 years
9 - 5 years

 

[82CardsGrad]

#1 26.5 mil - 6 year
#2 26.2 - 6 year
#3 25.74 - 6 year
#4 18 - 5 year
#5 16 - 6 year
#6 15 - 5 year
#7 15 - 5 year
#8 12.9 - 5 year
#9 12.1 5 year

*Not "guaranteed" to be exactly correct numbers.

**Edited for K9

Yup.. so the $14 or $15 million over 6 years from the Cards fits perfectly... Yet, Matty Hollywood still says no... What an a-hole...

 

[kerouac9]

Yup.. so the $14 or $15 million over 6 years from the Cards fits perfectly... Yet, Matty Hollywood still says no... What an a-hole...

The guaranteed money has reportedly been agreed upon for a week or so. What's now the sticking point has reportedly been playing time and other escalators. It's reasonable that this is a problem for the Cardinals' front office because they've never negotiated a top quarterback contract and Condon's negotiated at least a half-dozen of them.

 

[82CardsGrad]

The guaranteed money has reportedly been agreed upon for a week or so. What's now the sticking point has reportedly been playing time and other escalators. It's reasonable that this is a problem for the Cardinals' front office because they've never negotiated a top quarterback contract and Condon's negotiated at least a half-dozen of them.

Dude - are you really Dan Dickley??? The bottom line is that Matty Hollywood, a #10 pick, has been offered more guaranteed money than any other #10 in the history of the NFL... The contract did include escalators. Matty should be signed and in camp, and proving that his concerns over the escalators are founded... What an a-hole!