Leinart just trashed Whiz

[moklerman]

Actually, I'm wondering why Whiz is getting so much credit for Rivers? Yes, he was the OC but wasn't McCoy really in charge of the offense? I don't follow SD much so I don't really know.

 

[Shane]

Actually, I'm wondering why Whiz is getting so much credit for Rivers? Yes, he was the OC but wasn't McCoy really in charge of the offense? I don't follow SD much so I don't really know.

Nope word on the street is that he let Whiz run the show. Which is generally what happens when you hire an OC with that much experience. I course the HC would have input in the gameplan but on Sundy it was Whiz calling all the plays. Someone on here said they read it was Whiz's offense too.

Anyways do you have any examples where an OC with Whiz's pedigree was hired and then told he was just a puppet and told he was not doing anything? I can't think if any where that might be the case. I've seen it where newer guys get promoted and then they take a year it two learning under the HC before they give them the reins.

 

[TJ]

Dennis Green had one good draft here and it was very good the rest were garbage!

There is a handful of true star level players on this roster thanks to Whiz last I checked. His biggest fault is an inability to find a QB.

Yeah, the 2004 draft yielded a ton of talent.

However, there is only one player left in the NFL from the Cardinals' 2005 and 2006 drafts (Antrel Rolle). Obviously, none are still with the team.

The notion that Green was this elite talent evaluator for AZ is hyperbole at best.

 

[moklerman]

Nope word on the street is that he let Whiz run the show. Which is generally what happens when you hire an OC with that much experience. I course the HC would have input in the gameplan but on Sundy it was Whiz calling all the plays. Someone on here said they read it was Whiz's offense too.

Anyways do you have any examples where an OC with Whiz's pedigree was hired and then told he was just a puppet and told he was not doing anything? I can't think if any where that might be the case. I've seen it where newer guys get promoted and then they take a year it two learning under the HC before they give them the reins.

No, no specific examples, just when an OC takes over as a HC he usually still has a big part in the offense of his new team.

I assumed McCoy installed what he wanted on offense and Whiz took care of the details but McCoy would still be the one in charge. It's actually kind of surprising to me that he'd hire Whisenhunt as I'm not aware of any connections. McCoy spent most of his learning years as a coach under Dan Henning in Carolina. Henning learned in Washington and Miami.

Not seeing where any of that crosses over for Whis since he came from Pittsburgh and...nevermind, just found it. Whis was the special teams coach for the Jets in 2000 when Dan Henning was the OC for the Jets.

I would have never guessed that what McCoy did in Denver was anything related to what Whis was doing for the Steelers and Cardinals but it must be related somehow.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

One thing I still try to figure out, was Whiz so confident in his QB coaching that he could get results out of hella late rounds, or did he think those guys were NFL starters? I aint knocking Whiz's over all drafting, I agree we have some key faces in place because of the guy. Why didn't he ever pull the trigger early on a QB?

Tennesse will likely have the answer, hopefully, to what if Whiz got a first rounder he liked.

My point has been, what QB were available when the Cards drafted that were worth anything? SF took Kaep before he got to the Cards. Jimmy Clausen was available one year and we see what he has done.

In 2011, there was not a QB that was going to be, or should have been, selected over PP. I know there was some discussion over Blaine Gabbert over PP . The next QB after Dalton, also picked before the Cards, was Mallett and we have no idea about him. PLus he had drug issues coming into the NFL.

In 2012, the next two QB's after the Cards selected were Brandon Weeden and Brock Osweiler. So, it's not like the Cards passed over a potential franchise QB early in the draft. There haven't been any available. In that case, I would adopt the Cards draft strategy and just take a guy late who just as good a chance to develop rather than wasting a 1st round pick on a guy like Weeden.

Russell Wilson is the only one and he was passed over by every team at least twice. Evenso, the shine on him is starting to fade. Teams are starting to figure him out and his passing has shown it the least part of the season.

 

[WisconsinCard]

I think what Warner said here alludes to what Whiz is able to do with QBs. Warner certainly seem to say in so many words that Detroit was a better place for Whiz because there was an established QB there. In Tennessee the QB position is much like it was in AZ after Warner retired. How Whiz handles the QB situation in Titan land will determine his success or failure as a HC.

All that may be true but there is more to the game then just an offense. Reports are thatv Detroit did not want a 3-4 defense and that was the deal breaker for Whis. I can understand wher Detroit is coming from as they have invested heavily on their 4-3 as of late.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Actually, I'm wondering why Whiz is getting so much credit for Rivers? Yes, he was the OC but wasn't McCoy really in charge of the offense? I don't follow SD much so I don't really know.

Well, if McCoy gets all the credit for Rivers resurgence and not the OC, it follows that Whiz should get full marks for getting Warner back on the rails.

 

[GuernseyCard]

No, no specific examples, just when an OC takes over as a HC he usually still has a big part in the offense of his new team.

I assumed McCoy installed what he wanted on offense and Whiz took care of the details but McCoy would still be the one in charge. It's actually kind of surprising to me that he'd hire Whisenhunt as I'm not aware of any connections. McCoy spent most of his learning years as a coach under Dan Henning in Carolina. Henning learned in Washington and Miami.

Not seeing where any of that crosses over for Whis since he came from Pittsburgh and...nevermind, just found it. Whis was the special teams coach for the Jets in 2000 when Dan Henning was the OC for the Jets.

I would have never guessed that what McCoy did in Denver was anything related to what Whis was doing for the Steelers and Cardinals but it must be related somehow.

Henning is the connection. Whiz often mentioned him as his mentor.

 

[Duckjake]

Yeah, the 2004 draft yielded a ton of talent.

However, there is only one player left in the NFL from the Cardinals' 2005 and 2006 drafts (Antrel Rolle). Obviously, none are still with the team.

The notion that Green was this elite talent evaluator for AZ is hyperbole at best.

Maybe in the draft but the Free Agents Green brought in were instrumental in the SB run. Warner, Berry, Okeafor and James for example.

And don't forget Antonio Smith who just finished his 5th year as a starter for the Texans.

I for one am skeptical of the Leinart comments. 20-30 new plays every Monday?!? I just can't see it. That's about 400 plays over the course of a season. People talk about it taking half a season to adjust to a new offense yet he expects us to believe the Cards had that many new plays every week?

400 plays? Are there really that many different plays you can run?

Oh well, the Leinart situation will always remain a mystery until Somers retires and lets us know what really happened with Matt and Ken.

 

[SO91]

My point has been, what QB were available when the Cards drafted that were worth anything? SF took Kaep before he got to the Cards. Jimmy Clausen was available one year and we see what he has done.

In 2011, there was not a QB that was going to be, or should have been, selected over PP. I know there was some discussion over Blaine Gabbert over PP . The next QB after Dalton, also picked before the Cards, was Mallett and we have no idea about him. PLus he had drug issues coming into the NFL.

In 2012, the next two QB's after the Cards selected were Brandon Weeden and Brock Osweiler. So, it's not like the Cards passed over a potential franchise QB early in the draft. There haven't been any available. In that case, I would adopt the Cards draft strategy and just take a guy late who just as good a chance to develop rather than wasting a 1st round pick on a guy like Weeden.

Russell Wilson is the only one and he was passed over by every team at least twice. Evenso, the shine on him is starting to fade. Teams are starting to figure him out and his passing has shown it the least part of the season.

**** out of here with your logic. What do you think this is?

 

[BillsCarnage]

Actually, I'm wondering why Whiz is getting so much credit for Rivers? Yes, he was the OC but wasn't McCoy really in charge of the offense? I don't follow SD much so I don't really know.

I'm still trying to figure out how Rivers was "broken" to begin with.

Sometimes a new voice simply gets better results with the same message? The NFL is cyclical and maybe Rivers was just going through the cycle?

Not discounting Whiz, just never thought Rivers was broken like the media said.

 

[kerouac9]

I'm still trying to figure out how Rivers was "broken" to begin with.

Sometimes a new voice simply gets better results with the same message? The NFL is cyclical and maybe Rivers was just going through the cycle?

Not discounting Whiz, just never thought Rivers was broken like the media said.

What Whis installed with McCoy was night and day from what Rivers was running under Turner. Turner's offense is much like Bruce Arians--run the ball and then pass deep with play action. Arians' modification is that he'll do a lot of dink and dunk passing to bring the safeties up before taking a shot play.

Rivers made a quantum leap in his accuracy by taking proportionally fewer attempts down the field.

 

[TJ]

I'm still trying to figure out how Rivers was "broken" to begin with.

Sometimes a new voice simply gets better results with the same message? The NFL is cyclical and maybe Rivers was just going through the cycle?

Not discounting Whiz, just never thought Rivers was broken like the media said.

Go reference his stats from 2011-2012 and talk to any Charger fan.

They were ready to ship his ass out to the first buyer.

 

[TimTheToolmanTebow]

Whisenhunt is nothing more than an average coach who went on a lucky Superbowl run

I'd give credit for the super bowl run to:

30% Favorable opponents (Rookie Matt Ryan, Delhomme, and McNabb )
30% Warner
30% Fitzgerald
10% Whisenhunt

 

[Cheesebeef]

Whisenhunt is nothing more than an average coach who went on a lucky Superbowl run

I'd give credit for the super bowl run to:

30% Favorable opponents (Rookie Matt Ryan, Delhomme, and McNabb )
30% Warner
30% Fitzgerald
10% Whisenhunt

again, we had 60% of the above for two years prior to Wiz and we never won more then 5 games. Dude had something (meaning A LOT) to getting this team to back to back division titles and a 4-2 playoff record.

 

[TJ]

Whisenhunt is nothing more than an average coach who went on a lucky Superbowl run

I'd give credit for the super bowl run to:

30% Favorable opponents (Rookie Matt Ryan, Delhomme, and McNabb )
30% Warner
30% Fitzgerald
10% Whisenhunt

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[Duckjake]

again, we had 60% of the above for two years prior to Wiz and we never won more then 5 games. Dude had something (meaning A LOT) to getting this team to back to back division titles and a 4-2 playoff record.

It's amazing that so many people forget that 15 of the 22 starters that went to the SB were on the 5-11 2006 team.

Of course the most important change was Lyle Sendlein coming in to play Center. Horns coming on STRONG!

 

[Bodha]

I dont know what everyones so upset about. Leinarts probably right.

That was Warners team, and Warners offense, as it should have been.


All I saw out of Whiz was him keeping an inept Russ Grimm in charge of an inept Oline, and putting one of our best Olineman, Deuce Lutui on the bench because of a personal beef.

Whiz playcalling is unimaginative, and downright awful at times. But give him a stud QB and all of a sudden he looks like some guru. Imagine that.

 

[Shane]

I dont know what everyones so upset about. Leinarts probably right.

That was Warners team, and Warners offense, as it should have been.


All I saw out of Whiz was him keeping an inept Russ Grimm in charge of an inept Oline, and putting one of our best Olineman, Deuce Lutui on the bench because of a personal beef.

Whiz playcalling is unimaginative, and downright awful at times. But give him a stud QB and all of a sudden he looks like some guru. Imagine that.

 

[Catfish]

I think he has a legitimate gripe with Ken Wisenhunt. He was definitely more talented than max hall and derek anderson and probably john skelton but for whatever reason KW cut him and now Leinart is going to take a shot at him.

I like Ken Wisenhunt as coach of the Cardinals and am grateful for the Superbowl run and the playoff game against the Green Bay Packers. That said, it is not as simple to say that he just was unlucky in finding a QB. He was responsible for the crappy QBs who started and the inability to find even a competent starter. He also destroyed any confidence these guys had by putting them in a system that they were not suited to play.

I agree mostly with Bill Barnwell's take on the Titan's hire:

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/ken-whisenhunt-rides-the-nfl-coaching-carousel/

Nice find Mattyboy. I believe that Barnwell has pretty much nailed why Whiz was not successful at AZ. It was not that he couldn't ride talent to the SB, it was because he could not develop talent at the QB or RB position. That eventually was his undoing, (coupled with the eventual ruining of several young careers before they were ever given a chance to succeed). We will quite likely see more of the same as he takes over in Tennessee.

 

[GuernseyCard]

I dont know what everyones so upset about. Leinarts probably right.

That was Warners team, and Warners offense, as it should have been.


All I saw out of Whiz was him keeping an inept Russ Grimm in charge of an inept Oline, and putting one of our best Olineman, Deuce Lutui on the bench because of a personal beef.

Whiz playcalling is unimaginative, and downright awful at times. But give him a stud QB and all of a sudden he looks like some guru. Imagine that.

It was that "Holstein" attached to Lutui's butt that got him benched.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Nice find Mattyboy. I believe that Barnwell has pretty much nailed why Whiz was not successful at AZ. It was not that he couldn't ride talent to the SB, it was because he could not develop talent at the QB or RB position. That eventually was his undoing, (coupled with the eventual ruining of several young careers before they were ever given a chance to succeed). We will quite likely see more of the same as he takes over in Tennessee.

If he finds a Matty in Tenn and shows him the door, he'll be doing them a favour. So he couldn't recycle Anderson... well, nobody has and 5th round picks and UDFA's who don't pan out are a dime a dozen.

The NFL gives opportunities and takes them away when you fail; just that simple.

 

[Covert Rain]

again, we had 60% of the above for two years prior to Wiz and we never won more then 5 games. Dude had something (meaning A LOT) to getting this team to back to back division titles and a 4-2 playoff record.

He 100% did. Also, I remember reporter after reporter saying that during camps Whiz had completely changed the culture. He didn't put up with crap that previous coaches did and he insisted that guys change their attitudes or get the hell out.

I remember everyone from Bickly to Jurecki saying that he completely changed the atmosphere around the team.

People can say what they want but he sent this team in the right direction.

 

[splitsecond]

I love fox sports live but having Leinart be a part of the "players club" makes no sense. Aside from being a bust, he has zero personality to contribute. At least guys like Jesse Palmer are entertaining.

 

[Cardiac]

It was that "Holstein" attached to Lutui's butt that got him benched.

Funny because it's true. Lutui signed with the Bengals as a FA and got fired the second they saw his Holstein but. Whiz and Grimm take him back but now Whiz is a hater because he doesn't hand Lutui a starting spot. Didn't Lutui end up with the Titans for a year and only saw playing time because of injuries. Also a Seahawk and didn't see any playing time IIRC.

Love when fans expose themselves by throwing out crazy statements like this one.

If he finds a Matty in Tenn and shows him the door, he'll be doing them a favour. So he couldn't recycle Anderson... well, nobody has and 5th round picks and UDFA's who don't pan out are a dime a dozen.

The NFL gives opportunities and takes them away when you fail; just that simple.

Yep, Whiz the great killer of promising players careers.