Let the Beanie watch begin

[Second Deck]

I cannot imagine the Cards cannot get this deal done today. You would think a number 31 pick would be a piece of cake to sign. With the releasing of Edge and Hightower being the only experienced RB they cannot let this drag out when they are in camp for such a short period of time.

 

[TJ]

With the #32 pick signed last week, Graves had ample time to get this done. Wells is one player that could ill afford to lose any practice time because of OSU's school schedule. Once again, Graves drags his feet in the mud and does not get a 1st rounder into camp on time. Im sorry to the Graves supporters out there but 6 consecutive years? How many failures does it take for you to realize that this guy can't cut the mustard as an NFL GM? And don't give me that crap about other first rounders holding out today. I've seen a bunch of them sign over the past couple of days. Also, Wells's agent has only one priority right now and that is getting Wells signed.

The table was set perfectly for Graves to prove me wrong and he didn't.

 

[lobo]

I cannot imagine the Cards cannot get this deal done today. You would think a number 31 pick would be a piece of cake to sign. With the releasing of Edge and Hightower being the only experienced RB they cannot let this drag out when they are in camp for such a short period of time.

don't sweat it....let's both get back to work.....don't be a dolt like a certain writer for the republic and stir something up over nothing (see kw contract etc.). it won't be more than a day or two at the latest

 

[Dr. Jones]

Cmon Beanie! I need some football updates from you!

 

[AtlHawksFan]

The table was set perfectly for Graves to prove me wrong and he didn't.

Why is Graves always blamed for not getting the deal done? Oh, I forgot - he should open the vault for Beanie and give him everything. Wells is a RB which is a premier position and the signing of a D-lineman at 32 means aboslutely nothing as his agent isn't going to slot him based upn Hood's contract. My opinion. is that Brown's signing will have much more of an impact.

The Cards have been very fair in negotiations over the last two years and I think it's time to stop blaming Graves for getting deals done.

 

[bg7brd]

How many failures does it take for you to realize that this guy can't cut the mustard as an NFL GM?

What part of being in the Super Bowl don't you understand?

 

[joeshmo]

Why is Graves always blamed for not getting the deal done?

If it was once out of six times, you would have a point, but when it happens 6 out of 6 times, the cause has to be the constant, which is Graves.

Oh, I forgot - he should open the vault for Beanie and give him everything. Wells is a RB which is a premier position and the signing of a D-lineman at 32 means aboslutely nothing as his agent isn't going to slot him based upn Hood's contract. My opinion. is that Brown's signing will have much more of an impact.

Sorry but you are completely wrong and have it completely backwards. DE is way more the premier position, and salaries prove that to be so. On the list of salary averages RBs are the 7 highest paid and DE's are the 4th highest paid. Its a pretty wide margin between the two by the way, over 2 mill difference.

The Cards have been very fair in negotiations over the last two years and I think it's time to stop blaming Graves for getting deals done.

Fair in the end yes but being fair doesnt equate to quick or even average speed.

Wells has missed all of the OTA's, all of the workouts, now he will miss his first two a day as an NFL player. If Wells didnt miss the OTA's I wouldnt have this problem but he did and he needs to be there today, and there is no reason for him not to be. I like a lot of things Graves does now, but contract negotiations in a timely manner is easily still his biggest flaw, not everyone is perfect, maybe Fitz but thats pushing it.

 

[Second Deck]

I think the reason we went to the SB was because we took power away from Graves and company in the draft and gave it to Whiz. I believe Graves is a good person but subpar GM. The 31 pick should not be that hard to get into camp on time.

 

[joeshmo]

I think the reason we went to the SB was because we took power away from Graves and company in the draft and gave it to Whiz. I believe Graves is a good person but subpar GM. The 31 pick should not be that hard to get into camp on time.

A little bit maybe, but Wiz trusts the scouts. Wiz gave the scouts what he was looking for and told them to find it. It was Graves who found, cultivated, and got under contract the current group of scouts which are considered one of the best groups in the league. Graves power wasnt taken away, he hired the right people and delegated the power.

 

[az jam]

If it was once out of six times, you would have a point, but when it happens 6 out of 6 times, the cause has to be the constant, which is Graves.

A perfect record!!!!! Why break the streak.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Somers reporting the deal should be done by end of day today!

 

[cgolden]

Has anyone heard the rumors that the holdup has been Beanie asking for more than 'slot'?

I'm not a Graves supporter so jump on me for trying to deflect blame from him but I'm wondering if there's any truth to that rumor.

 

[Mulli]

Has anyone heard the rumors that the holdup has been Beanie asking for more than 'slot'?

I'm not a Graves supporter so jump on me for trying to deflect blame from him but I'm wondering if there's any truth to that rumor.

I would not have any problem with Chris Wells asking for more than "slot".

 

[AtlHawksFan]

If
Sorry but you are completely wrong and have it completely backwards. DE is way more the premier position, and salaries prove that to be so. On the list of salary averages RBs are the 7 highest paid and DE's are the 4th highest paid. Its a pretty wide margin between the two by the way, over 2 mill difference.

I agree with you but I'm talking about rookie contracts - where the pay scale can't be measured against those for proven NFL players. Staffords' contract sure doesn't look average to me.

Neither one of knows what's happening between Graves and Wells agent so I'm curious as to what insight you have that makes you positve Graves is the problem.

 

[ajcardfan]

Has anyone heard the rumors that the holdup has been Beanie asking for more than 'slot'?

I'm not a Graves supporter so jump on me for trying to deflect blame from him but I'm wondering if there's any truth to that rumor.

Of course the agent is going to ask for more than the slot. I'm sure that occurs for 100% of the draft picks, even 7th rounders.

 

[Stout]

If the deal gets done today, no big deal. If it drags through the weekend then it is a HUGE deal. The kid, through no fault of his own, couldn't participate in most offseason activities. He needs every single minute of every single practice and meeting he can possibly attend. Git 'er done, Graves!

 

[RonF]

Don't forget Wells is a rookie and hasn't shown anything yet to indicate he can successfully step up from college play to the pro level. Let Graves do his job and and as others have posted previously, focus on the ones who are in camp.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I agree with you but I'm talking about rookie contracts - where the pay scale can't be measured against those for proven NFL players. Staffords' contract sure doesn't look average to me.

Neither one of knows what's happening between Graves and Wells agent so I'm curious as to what insight you have that makes you positve Graves is the problem.

so when you were making the argument supporting graves' slowness that RB was a premier position as opposed to DE you were saying that for rookies RBs are more premier than DE and then it flip-flops for proven nfl players? and what the hell does stafford's contract have to do with anything? he's a QB and 30 slots away from beanie! dude, joeshmo busted your argument, just accept it.

and yeah, when you have an equation:

player x + graves = late to camp

where the "player x" is a variable that changes every year, odds favor the fact that the outcome (late to camp) is more likely due to the constant (graves) than it is due to just bad luck that every player that we plug into the "player x" variable happens to be the cause of the outcome (late to camp).

now don't any of you think this is me bashing graves and not recognizing that we went to the superbowl. he's obviously done things right for us to be where we are at, but that doesn't mean he's 100% perfect and that things cannot be improved upon. if you want to stand pat, so be it. but i'd like to see continued improvement in every area in which there are negatives (such as getting 1st round picks into camp on time). that's the way i conduct my business and it's the reason why successful businesses remain successful. they don't rest on their laurels.

get beanie signed.

 

[AtlHawksFan]

so when you were making the argument supporting graves' slowness that RB was a premier position as opposed to DE you were saying that for rookies RBs are more premier than DE and then it flip-flops for proven nfl players? and what the hell does stafford's contract have to do with anything? he's a QB and 30 slots away from beanie! dude, joeshmo busted your argument, just accept it.

and yeah, when you have an equation:

player x + graves = late to camp

where the "player x" is a variable that changes every year, odds favor the fact that the outcome (late to camp) is more likely due to the constant (graves) than it is due to just bad luck that every player that we plug into the "player x" variable happens to be the cause of the outcome (late to camp).

You're right, Stafford's contract has absolutely nothing to do with Beanie's, as I was using him to make a point about how position averages for proven players can't be applied to rookie salaries. Regardless of the position they play, the top 10 spots will typically make more than the NFL average salary for their position. After that, slotting becomes more of a factor except for RBs and QBs who generally are paid more than slot. Note the word "generally". DEs may average more in the long run but RBs and QBs have more leverage with a rookie contract.

Kudos to you for noting how my 'argument' was busted but I was only stating my opinion - which will be proven to be right or wrong .

Let's get Beanie signed..

 

[joeshmo]

I agree with you but I'm talking about rookie contracts - where the pay scale can't be measured against those for proven NFL players. Staffords' contract sure doesn't look average to me.

Neither one of knows what's happening between Graves and Wells agent so I'm curious as to what insight you have that makes you positve Graves is the problem.

Not sure what Stafford has to do with it? What teams feel about and value different positions are directly related to how much they pay those veterans, just becuase they are rookies doenst change that value system. There is no different value system on rookies.

Once again it has happened 6 out of 6 times with 5 different agents and multiple different draft slots with multiple different positions, and multiple different scenerios concerning players signed aournd that draft pick. What is the constant? Graves is the constant. If it happened once or even half the time you would have the arguement but it isnt its every single time. That right there should make anyone positive what the problem is, its not hard to see and draw a conclusion. As for my own insight, others on this board know exactly what my background is, of where I still have contacts. I know for a fact agents do not like dealing with the guy, not beucase he is a bad guy, but because he is plodding, rarely gets back to you in a timely basis on counteroffers, and condensending in negotiations. Thats direct quotes from a few agencies I still have contacts with.

 

[conraddobler]

Graves isn't the reason we went to the Super Bowl in my opinion.

Whiz was hired by the guy I guess, although you don't really know for sure who had the most say in that, Michael or Graves.

Who was the driving force there? That was the key in my opinion and I doubt it was Graves but I'm willing to listen.

 

[CardLogic]

I know for a fact agents do not like dealing with the guy, not beucase he is a bad guy, but because he is plodding, rarely gets back to you in a timely basis on counteroffers, and condensending in negotiations. Thats direct quotes from a few agencies I still have contacts with.

I wonder if that is just slowness, (I think it is.) or if it is actually a negotiation ploy which Graves uses?

As to the second point, no one likes dealing with that. Just ask Q!

 

[joeshmo]

After that, slotting becomes more of a factor except for RBs and QBs who generally are paid more than slot. Note the word "generally". DEs may average more in the long run but RBs and QBs have more leverage with a rookie contract.

Not sure where your getting your info from, but your digging further and further into a hole, becuase what your saying is false. The only positions that gets more then slot is QB. Even the RB's this year arent getting more then slot. 5 RB's taken in the first last year didnt get so called premiums, none more or less then the standard negotiating process and compared to the players contracts around their slot. HeEck even QB's dont really get more then their slot, its just that their total lools higher if they reach the incentives that normal positions just dont get, but if the QB doesnt reach those incentives then his contracts is completely slotted with everyone else.

I hate debating about this becuase it looks like I am bashing graves when I actually like 90% of what he has done or is doing. I just got to get the facts straight thats all.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I think I said this verbatim before Wilson got signed. Graves is the slow one. There are no if's, ands, or buts about it. Now he can't even use the excuse of a top 15 pick.

It will get done shortly but through no direct result of Graves awesomeness but rather because at #31, and with #32 already signed, only a complete goon would have it go longer then a week with those same circumstancs.

Or maybe I should reserve judgement until Mr Wells is actually there.

He sucks at being smart and proactive with negotiations and he sucks at "player" evaluation and everybody wants us to lighten up cuz we went to a Superbowl under his watch. But what exactly does he do again??

Ahhhhhh, thats right. Firm Handshake. Warm Smile.

Simple.

 

[joeshmo]

I wonder if that is just slowness, (I think it is.) or if it is actually a negotiation ploy which Graves uses?

Not sure, never really asked. Note then none I talk to hate the guy, they think he is fair, they just dont like his style of going about it.