Lienart in Limbo....

[D-Dogg]

His best play was another toss up ball to Fitz. Yea... Matty can throw up jump balls!! .

I disagree with all of the things you wrote there. You described his play in Baltimore there, which was horrendous.



But, I wanted to mention something about this Fitz jump....Fitz stopped on his route to jump up and catch the ball..he slowed down. He would have caught the ball in stride if he hadn't slowed down. I rewound it a few times when I got home because I didn't notice it live. He does this to Warner too...the only time that Fitz doesn't jump is on quick slants...everthing else, especially deep routes he slows up, stops and jumps. That's on him as much as on the QB.

 

[Shane]

true. I only called out BJs because it was like 30 yards downfield and I still don't know how he dropped it.

I call BS have watched a rewound that many times on TIVO and I say that was a catch. He got screwed. Im not going to blame him for that.

 

[D-Dogg]

I call BS have watched a rewound that many times on TIVO and I say that was a catch. He got screwed. Im not going to blame him for that.

abomb and I watched it so many times *trying* to see how they made the call. I think the tip of the ball touched the ground (but he was already down).

I guess I should have said "I still don't know how that was called incomplete."

 

[abomb]

abomb and I watched it so many times *trying* to see how they made the call. I think the tip of the ball touched the ground (but he was already down).

I guess I should have said "I still don't know how that was called incomplete."

Yep, a textbook case of "too close to overturn what was called on the field".

 

[Shane]

Yep, a textbook case of "too close to overturn what was called on the field".

It was a textbook case of BS is what it was. The call on the field should never have been made. Cant see it on TIVO how the hell do you see on the field at full speed?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

It was a textbook case of BS is what it was. The call on the field should never have been made. Cant see it on TIVO how the hell do you see on the field at full speed?

The officials see the end result on the field, and the ball popped out. You have to call that incomplete without a replay IMO. The replay should have overturned the call though.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I disagree with all of the things you wrote there. You described his play in Baltimore there, which was horrendous.



But, I wanted to mention something about this Fitz jump....Fitz stopped on his route to jump up and catch the ball..he slowed down. He would have caught the ball in stride if he hadn't slowed down. I rewound it a few times when I got home because I didn't notice it live. He does this to Warner too...the only time that Fitz doesn't jump is on quick slants...everthing else, especially deep routes he slows up, stops and jumps. That's on him as much as on the QB.

Perhaps if Matt would lead him more and not throw up the soft, looping jump balls Fitz would be able to catch the ball in stride...

 

[D-Dogg]

Perhaps if Matt would lead him more and not throw up the soft, looping jump balls Fitz would be able to catch the ball in stride...

He could have caught that ball in stride.


I just don't recall Fitz ever really catching deep balls in stride...from Matt or from anyone else. It is always a jump ball. I'm beginning to think that is simply the way he likes to do it.

 

[82CardsGrad]

He could have caught that ball in stride.


I just don't recall Fitz ever really catching deep balls in stride...from Matt or from anyone else. It is always a jump ball. I'm beginning to think that is simply the way he likes to do it.

Donald, if he were actually lead, there wouldn't be a need to jump...

It can't be that Fitz is so fast, that he's actually outrunning the pass. No... He's jumping because the ball is underthrown, and when it comes from Matt, it's literally like a basketball ref tossed it up. No zip at all... Just a looping, soft, floating ball where if Fitz doesn't leap for it, it would either be knocked down or worse, intercepted... Thank god Fitz can jump to the clouds...

 

[john h]

We don't win this game if Matt plays 100%.

Maybe Warner should learn to snap it to himself, since you don't give him any credit. I am just as leary as the next on Warner's fumblitis but that was on the C.

Matt has been playing like the rookie he is. I do not think we win this game either without Warner. Matt has a way to go before he is NFL ready. He looks like he should be on Dancing With The Stars as at times he dances all over the place. He has not played well in all but one game. We are lucky to have a guy like Warner as a backup. He could start for many teams in particular the Bears or perhaps even San Diego or N.O. He only has a few years left and we had better hope that Matt comes around. Much to early to judge him but he clearly is not a sound NFL QB at this point. With all the money he is being paid he should not be whining. Just continue to learn by watching Warner and hope you end up winning a Super Bowl and MVP like he did. If Buddy Ryan were here he would have sit Matt on the pine a few weeks ago and he would not smell the game. Whiz has the patience a young former star needs.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Donald, if he were actually lead, there wouldn't be a need to jump...

It can't be that Fitz is so fast, that he's actually outrunning the pass. No... He's jumping because the ball is underthrown, and when it comes from Matt, it's literally like a basketball ref tossed it up. No zip at all... Just a looping, soft, floating ball where if Fitz doesn't leap for it, it would either be knocked down or worse, intercepted... Thank god Fitz can jump to the clouds...

Huh?

You want the ball thrown up in the air to Fitz because of his leaping ability and his uncanny hands. You don't always jump because a ball is underthrown. In fact, you usually jump because the ball is overthrown and you have to jump to try and catch up.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Huh?

You want the ball thrown up in the air to Fitz because of his leaping ability and his uncanny hands. You don't always jump because a ball is underthrown. In fact, you usually jump because the ball is overthrown and you have to jump to try and catch up.

Huh???

If you want to play jump ball, and simply allow Fitz to jump for the ball and NOT allow him to make any YAC, sure... If that's the game plan, then Matt is executing it quite well...
It's been my experience that most deep balls are designed to lead the receiver, allowing him to make the catch and run for more yards - perhaps even a TD...
Fact is I have yet to see Matt lead any receiver (Fitz, Q or BJ) on a deep ball...
Now, contrast that to yesterday for example, when Ben lead Holmes beautifully for a 36 yard TD bomb.

 

[D-Dogg]

Donald, if he were actually lead, there wouldn't be a need to jump...

It can't be that Fitz is so fast, that he's actually outrunning the pass. No... He's jumping because the ball is underthrown, and when it comes from Matt, it's literally like a basketball ref tossed it up. No zip at all... Just a looping, soft, floating ball where if Fitz doesn't leap for it, it would either be knocked down or worse, intercepted... Thank god Fitz can jump to the clouds...

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. He hesitated at the last moment to adjust and jump up to make the catch. Without the slight stop, he would have caught the ball in stride. He ran, ran, ran..then hesitated and jumped. No need to do so, because the ball was on target to where he would have been if he hadn't gone up for the spectacular catch.

I know what you are talking about with the floater...and yes Matt does do that. But on this ball, I noticed something about Fitz that I hadn't really noticed before, and that was that he created a jump ball when it wasn't needed, IMO. Also the play two weeks ago when he got drilled in the face making a jumping grab, he had no need to jump nearly that high...he jumped to catch the ball in his chest...how about reaching his hands up? It was a high ball, but not THAT high.

I can't complain really though, because he's insanely talented at bringing down jump balls.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Huh???

If you want to play jump ball, and simply allow Fitz to jump for the ball and NOT allow him to make any YAC, sure... If that's the game plan, then Matt is executing it quite well...
It's been my experience that most deep balls are designed to lead the receiver, allowing him to make the catch and run for more yards - perhaps even a TD...
Fact is I have yet to see Matt lead any receiver (Fitz, Q or BJ) on a deep ball...
Now, contrast that to yesterday for example, when Ben lead Holmes beautifully for a 36 yard TD bomb.

In order to lead the receiver, the receiver needs to be able to get separation from the DB. Most of our receivers can not do that.

However, there was one pass in this game where Matt lead the receiver. It was the pass where BJ dropped it. He threw the ball over is outside shoulder.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. He hesitated at the last moment to adjust and jump up to make the catch. Without the slight stop, he would have caught the ball in stride. He ran, ran, ran..then hesitated and jumped. No need to do so, because the ball was on target to where he would have been if he hadn't gone up for the spectacular catch.

I know what you are talking about with the floater...and yes Matt does do that. But on this ball, I noticed something about Fitz that I hadn't really noticed before, and that was that he created a jump ball when it wasn't needed, IMO. Also the play two weeks ago when he got drilled in the face making a jumping grab, he had no need to jump nearly that high...he jumped to catch the ball in his chest...how about reaching his hands up? It was a high ball, but not THAT high.

I can't complain really though, because he's insanely talented at bringing down jump balls.

Bottom line - it's the QB's responsibility to put the ball in a position where the receiver can make the catch in stride... Matt seems to really struggle with this...And he's very lucky to have a WR like Fitz who can overcome his poor, floater throws and make some great catches...

 

[82CardsGrad]

In order to lead the receiver, the receiver needs to be able to get separation from the DB. Most of our receivers can not do that.

However, there was one pass in this game where Matt lead the receiver. It was the pass where BJ dropped it. He threw the ball over is outside shoulder.

That's funny... seems to me Kurt doesn't struggle nearly as much as Matt at hitting our WR's in stride...

 

[dreamcastrocks]

That's funny... seems to me Kurt doesn't struggle nearly as much as Matt at hitting our WR's in stride...

Most of Kurt's passes have been slants. It is much easier to hit your receiver in stride on those patterns. Kurt isn't hitting anyone for bombs down the field either. The only pass that you could say that, is the pass to BJ in the preseason. You could say the post to Boldin last week too.

 

[Wild Card]

That's funny... seems to me Kurt doesn't struggle nearly as much as Matt at hitting our WR's in stride...

82CG:

That's in part a product of the time Kurt Warner spent with Mike Martz, whose offense relies a great deal on yards-after-catch. Warner's ability to get through his reads and extremely quick release--both of which were honed by his time in Arena ball--together with his accuracy made him an almost ideal candidate for Martz' offense. And Kurt soaked it up like a sponge.

It's no accident that a YAC monster like Anquan Boldin had the day he did against the Ravens. A healthy Kurt Warner, operating behind adequate protection and delivering the ball to Boldin in stride and on time, is exactly the kind of quarterback Q needs.

WC

 

[D-Dogg]

Honestly, I think I'd be far more concerned if it seemed like Matt was peachy keen with this scenario.

I'm watching Whis' press conference right now and he's been asked about this article a couple of times.

Just now, he said basically the same thing I said above, in much the same words.

 

[Wild Card]

I'm watching Whis' press conference right now and he's been asked about this article a couple of times. Just now, he said basically the same thing I said above, in much the same words.

Donald:

Well, sure, because Ken Whisenhunt's a professional. What's he gonna do, go off on his starter during a presser? I'm sure that any criticism Whis directs at Matt Leinart for his comments will be done in private, which is where any gripes Leinart may have should've been kept.

WC

 

[Treesquid PhD]

So this is what I got from this thread
- People don't like that Matt is pissed he got pulled
- People want Matt to show more fire.
- People call matt a "pretty boy" after most tiraids, not sure what this has to do with anything.
- People defend BJ for dropping yet another pass.
- People slamming Fitz for making a leaping catch.

I am only surprised we didn't get more Edge hate in here....

 

[dreamcastrocks]

So this is what I got from this thread
- People don't like that Matt is pissed he got pulled
- People want Matt to show more fire.
- People call matt a "pretty boy" after most tiraids, not sure what this has to do with anything.
- People defend BJ for dropping yet another pass.
- People slamming Fitz for making a leaping catch.

I am only surprised we didn't get more Edge hate in here....

don't forget Warner for dropping that snap.

 

[Stout]

No, he didn't. He looked a TON better. Feet were a little bit happy, but footwork was very much improved.

he stunk it up in Crackmore last week, but the drops in this game in the first half were BIG drops (BJ).

He looked slightly better, but far from a ton. I counted about 5 or 6 times where he started to throw and then pulled back. They weren't pump fakes. YOU CANNOT DO THAT. It's a lack of confidence and it must stop. For one, it'll cause fumbles. For another, it'll cause sacks. Finally, it means you have zero confidence in yourself. Once you've chosen where to throw the ball, THROW IT. Second guessing yourself mid-play is offensive suicide.

 

[D-Dogg]

He looked slightly better, but far from a ton. I counted about 5 or 6 times where he started to throw and then pulled back. They weren't pump fakes. YOU CANNOT DO THAT. It's a lack of confidence and it must stop. For one, it'll cause fumbles. For another, it'll cause sacks. Finally, it means you have zero confidence in yourself. Once you've chosen where to throw the ball, THROW IT. Second guessing yourself mid-play is offensive suicide.

It's more of a statement on how bad he was last week than him having a glowing performance in the first half yesterday.

 

[Mulli]

He looked slightly better, but far from a ton. I counted about 5 or 6 times where he started to throw and then pulled back. They weren't pump fakes. YOU CANNOT DO THAT. It's a lack of confidence and it must stop. For one, it'll cause fumbles. For another, it'll cause sacks. Finally, it means you have zero confidence in yourself. Once you've chosen where to throw the ball, THROW IT. Second guessing yourself mid-play is offensive suicide.

So is realizing you are about to throw an interception and throwing it anyway.

/Rex Greiseman.