Lienart the reason

[seesred]

IMO Matt Lienart's injury was the end of our season. He was the man for controlling the game clock. He was the one that beat the Steelers. He has better control under center. Kurt is a great guy that's past his prime. Yes it's true he got hurried vs. Tampa, but how many bad throws did he have. Over the head, to the backside, hard to handle balls, and last but not least throwing into double, and triple coverage. Getting the ball out late and letting Bucs defenders kill our reciever.

Lets face it when Matt went down, our season went down with him. I'm not saying we wont win a few games, but I no longer expect us to compete for a post season spot. Kurt has forgotten how to win, which he was great at. The key word is was. Playing with gloves and a torn left elbow makes him even worse than he would be.

Bottem line I miss Matt and so does this team!

GBR
40

 

[cardsfanmd]

I am with you. For all the crap the people on the board are talking now about the team, I think they need to remember who we are missing. I dont see the Pats or Colts striking fear in anyone's hearts with Matt Cassell or Jim Sorgi at the helm. i am not trying to compare Matt to Brady or Manning, but not very many teams stay competetive with their #2QB. Lets not forget we are missing Chike, Ross, Dansby, Francisco, Merritt (our best preseason reciever) and Boldin and Wilson will be no better than 75% for the remainder of the season.

Good post.

 

[earthsci]

 

[az jam]

I do agree with the basic assumption here. My concern really is that Matt may be injury prone. No matter how good your offensive line is, the qb will still take some hits. No doubt that Matt is the leader of this team. He needs to have a full recovery and got to stay healthy.

 

[D-Dogg]

Oh boy...talk about opening Pandora's box.

 

[john h]

I do agree with the basic assumption here. My concern really is that Matt may be injury prone. No matter how good your offensive line is, the qb will still take some hits. No doubt that Matt is the leader of this team. He needs to have a full recovery and got to stay healthy.

Have we forgotten Leinhart was playing like crap when he went down. We do not know just how this guy is going to pan out as a QB so I am concerned about next year. Was he on the sideline Sunday? Should he have been? I would think so and hope he was.

 

[dogpoo32]

Have we forgotten Leinhart was playing like crap when he went down. We do not know just how this guy is going to pan out as a QB so I am concerned about next year. Was he on the sideline Sunday? Should he have been? I would think so and hope he was.

He was. I saw him standing next to whis when whis was talking to kurt. Leinart was playing like crap, but we all expected him to improve. I don't know if anyone really expects Kurt to improve.

 

[Shane]

Wow. Leainart was playing craptastically when he was playing. So you guys saying that us missing him is our problem is wishful thinking at its absolute finest.

 

[dogpoo32]

Wow. Leainart was playing craptastically when he was playing. So you guys saying that us missing him is our problem is wishful thinking at its absolute finest.

You are right, as always. Kurt and Tim squared are a better lineup than Matt and Kurt. Leinart was playing bad, but the only games we have won, he started. Not giving him full credit for the wins, just shows that Kurt isn't a winner as a starter.

 

[Shane]

You are right, as always. Kurt and Tim squared are a better lineup than Matt and Kurt. Leinart was playing bad, but the only games we have won, he started. Not giving him full credit for the wins, just shows that Kurt isn't a winner as a starter.

Wow did you come up with that all on yor own? Nobody anywhere said that Kurt and Tim are better than Kurt and Matt.

However we won those games in spite of Leinart. Not because of him. He was terrible. Open your eyes.

 

[Mulli]

Wow did you come up with that all on yor own? Nobody anywhere said that Kurt and Tim are better than Kurt and Matt.

However we won those games in spite of Leinart. Not because of him. He was terrible. Open your eyes.

Shane, you might have enjoyed the constant barrage I faced about Leinart at the game yesterday. Almost immediately after leaving my car before the game, people started mentioning Leinart and "white gold."

 

[D-Dogg]

Shane, you might have enjoyed the constant barrage I faced about Leinart at the game yesterday. Almost immediately after leaving my car before the game, people started mentioning Leinart and "white gold."

What is white gold?

 

[Linderbee]

What is white gold?

File it under Donaldipedia...


I have no clue either, but didn't want to ask

 

[Mulli]

I didn't know either. My brother in law spent the rest of the day either talking about Leinart and white gold, lines and/or coke while at USC.

(Sorry for posting about this)

 

[D-Dogg]

closest I can come up with is that white gold is what the World Series of Poker main event bracelet is made of.

That, or asbestos.

I think your brother in law is off his rocker, man. Sorry to hear that.

 

[Mulli]

closest I can come up with is that white gold is what the World Series of Poker main event bracelet is made of.

That, or asbestos.

I think your brother in law is off his rocker, man. Sorry to hear that.

As I was walking into the stadium, one drunk tailgater shook my hand for being a Card fan, and his fellow drunk tailgater said "that is okay, I also like white gold." Huh?

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Wow did you come up with that all on yor own? Nobody anywhere said that Kurt and Tim are better than Kurt and Matt.

However we won those games in spite of Leinart. Not because of him. He was terrible. Open your eyes.

You are out and out wrong. If you ONLY read box scores then I can see why you think what you think.

But the team playing better as a whole, recievers catching balls, the line run blocking, and most importantly NO killer turnovers were all things that happened with Matt at the helm.

So either the entire team magically regressed after the kid went down or there is something else at work here. Meaning that EVERY facet of a successful offense is predicated on every little thing the guy under center does. And for all the killing you have done about Matt at least his record as a starter is a hell of lot a closer to .500 (and being a first year starter on THIS team - that is no small feat) than Warner. That's not a coincidence.

open you eyes.

 

[cardsfanmd]

You are out and out wrong. If you ONLY read box scores then I can see why you think what you think.

But the team playing better as a whole, recievers catching balls, the line run blocking, and most importantly NO killer turnovers were all things that happened with Matt at the helm.

So either the entire team magically regressed after the kid went down or there is something else at work here. Meaning that EVERY facet of a successful offense is predicated on every little thing the guy under center does. And for all the killing you have done about Matt at least his record as a starter is a hell of lot a closer to .500 (and being a first year starter on THIS team - that is no small feat) than Warner. That's not a coincidence.

open you eyes.

I like Leinart and think he will be fine, but you are giving him way too much credit here. The run blocking didn't go south because of Kurt. In case you haven't noticed, our line was healthy before Matt got hurt.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I like Leinart and think he will be fine, but you are giving him way too much credit here. The run blocking didn't go south because of Kurt. In case you haven't noticed, our line was healthy before Matt got hurt.

Listen I dont want to be counter productive here. I am HUUGE Leinart guy and was disappointed that he didn't come out setting the world on fire.

And yes the line getting beat up has played a significant role (although this last week IIRC we had our full complement of players and it was the worst run game since last year) but heres my point.

There are so many things that go into game planning and it all centers around the QB who is playing. Maybe the lineman know they need to hold there blocks longer and that is causing issues. Maybe the defense knows they can get pressure on warner with just four guys and thusly can drop more into coverage or into the box to stuff the run. Maybe warners weird ass hand off style is causing a delay of a couple seconds (not to mention telegraphs the play) that is crucial to Edge getting those initial yards. Maybe we are not calling the same game plan as we have to max protect Warner because although Leinart is not Mike Vick, he is sure as hell able to avoid the rush better than Warner.

All I am sayin is that it is NOT a coincidence that the entire offense has nose dived since Warner assumed full control. Only tape and/or the "what if" game can prove me to be ultimately right.

But like I said - the proof is in the starting record. Even a joke like McCown had a better win % than Warner when he was here.

SO the question is would u rather look pretty and lose or look gritty and win?

Being that this is not FF I think the answer is pretty dang clear cut.

 

[Totally_Red]

You are out and out wrong. If you ONLY read box scores then I can see why you think what you think.

But the team playing better as a whole, recievers catching balls, the line run blocking, and most importantly NO killer turnovers were all things that happened with Matt at the helm.

So either the entire team magically regressed after the kid went down or there is something else at work here. Meaning that EVERY facet of a successful offense is predicated on every little thing the guy under center does. And for all the killing you have done about Matt at least his record as a starter is a hell of lot a closer to .500 (and being a first year starter on THIS team - that is no small feat) than Warner. That's not a coincidence.

open you eyes.

Revisionist thinking.

Leinart was 47th in NFL passer rating with a 61.9 QB rating. Warner for all his issues has an 80.6 rating and is 26th.

To say Matt would have done any better Sunday is unsupported by facts. Receivers were dropping balls from Matt. They dropped balls from Warner yesterday. Warner was wild high yesterday, Matt was wild high when he played. The only advantage Matt has is slightly more mobility. That might have helped yesterday. But the offensive woes go way beyond Warner, although he sure ain't helping things much.

 

[Shane]

You are out and out wrong. If you ONLY read box scores then I can see why you think what you think.

But the team playing better as a whole, recievers catching balls, the line run blocking, and most importantly NO killer turnovers were all things that happened with Matt at the helm.

So either the entire team magically regressed after the kid went down or there is something else at work here. Meaning that EVERY facet of a successful offense is predicated on every little thing the guy under center does. And for all the killing you have done about Matt at least his record as a starter is a hell of lot a closer to .500 (and being a first year starter on THIS team - that is no small feat) than Warner. That's not a coincidence.

open you eyes.

Actually you are out and out WRONG. Matt most certainly had killer TO's and was overall playing like absolute crap. Im not talking box scores either. although that does support my argument WAY MORE Than it supports yours.

This team won those games in spite of Matt no because of him. No matter how much you would like to think otherwise. Good luck with that line of thinking however. Let me know ho wit turns out for you?

 

[PoolBoy]

Matt L-E-I-N-A-R-T
(Lie-nart)
N.
Def- A quarterback from USC drafted by the Cardinals.
Sentence- nobody knows how to spell Matt Leinart's name.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Actually you are out and out WRONG. Matt most certainly had killer TO's and was overall playing like absolute crap. Im not talking box scores either. although that does support my argument WAY MORE Than it supports yours.

This team won those games in spite of Matt no because of him. No matter how much you would like to think otherwise. Good luck with that line of thinking however. Let me know ho wit turns out for you?

Again - at a certain point you have to realize that Warner's W - L record is OVERRIDINGLY damning no matter what his QB rating and points put on the board.

Matt was 2 - 2. You can say they were winning in spite Leinart. Yet with Warner they can't even seem to do that. They must just not be trying anymore,

Listen to what I am saying. Matt was not Peyton Manning where he was winning games by himself. But he wasn't losing them for us either. And that just KILLS you in the NFL.

You can sit there and point the finger at Matt but the reality is we just expected WAY too much from a young QB. The bottom line is we were 3-2 with Matt starting and now 0 -3 since.

Your not seeing the forest through the trees. The disparity in the record is not because Matt is so great (again yet) - its because Warner is so dang bad.

You just don't give Leinart credit for the things he was doing well. Namely managing the team/game and not playing outside his limits. For a young QB learning a new system thats all we should expect. Leinart wasn't doing that bad its just we had unrealistic expectations for the offense as a whole.

Here is the problem with the whole Leinart hater act thats all too apparent on this board. You wanted Peyton Manning come game 1 of his second season and didn't get it. So now he sucks?

I don't know if he is going to be great either but I sure as hell understand its a little unrealistic to expect to have a Pro Bowler QB ON THIS TEAM after just ten starts. Is it Matts fault that he got you excited?

Nope.

Give credit where it is due. At least before Matt went down we were debating whether we had a team that was going to the playoffs. In spite of him or because of him - it sure felt a hell of a lot better then what we have to talk about now.

Which is "When's the draft?"

 

[Shane]

Again - at a certain point you have to realize that Warner's W - L record is OVERRIDINGLY damning no matter what his QB rating and points put on the board.

Matt was 2 - 2. You can say they were winning in spite Leinart. Yet with Warner they can't even seem to do that. They must just not be trying anymore,

Listen to what I am saying. Matt was not Peyton Manning where he was winning games by himself. But he wasn't losing them for us either. And that just KILLS you in the NFL.

You can sit there and point the finger at Matt but the reality is we just expected WAY too much from a young QB. The bottom line is we were 3-2 with Matt starting and now 0 -3 since.

Your not seeing the forest through the trees. The disparity in the record is not because Matt is so great (again yet) - its because Warner is so dang bad.

You just don't give Leinart credit for the things he was doing well. Namely managing the team/game and not playing outside his limits. For a young QB learning a new system thats all we should expect. Leinart wasn't doing that bad its just we had unrealistic expectations for the offense as a whole.

Here is the problem with the whole Leinart hater act thats all too apparent on this board. You wanted Peyton Manning come game 1 of his second season and didn't get it. So now he sucks?

I don't know if he is going to be great either but I sure as hell understand its a little unrealistic to expect to have a Pro Bowler QB ON THIS TEAM after just ten starts. Is it Matts fault that he got you excited?

Nope.

Give credit where it is due. At least before Matt went down we were debating whether we had a team that was going to the playoffs. In spite of him or because of him - it sure felt a hell of a lot better then what we have to talk about now.

Which is "When's the draft?"

If Matt had continued to play the games after he was hurt at the level he was playing during those 3 wins and 2 losses. We would in all likely hood still be sitting here at 3-5. Still with only 3 wins in spite of him.

He was playing like crap. He had one "ok" game and that was the Seattle one. After that you can't have a QB play the way he was playing for 16 games and expect to be competing in the NFL.

I love Matt. I cant wait for next year ro see if the extra year in the system wakes him up. But that is a long long long ways away.

Heck we even had comments from players like Boldin that clearly implied that they wanted Kurt to be playing and not Matt.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

If Matt had continued to play the games after he was hurt at the level he was playing during those 3 wins and 2 losses. We would in all likely hood still be sitting here at 3-5. Still with only 3 wins in spite of him.

He was playing like crap. He had one "ok" game and that was the Seattle one. After that you can't have a QB play the way he was playing for 16 games and expect to be competing in the NFL.

I love Matt. I cant wait for next year ro see if the extra year in the system wakes him up. But that is a long long long ways away.

Heck we even had comments from players like Boldin that clearly implied that they wanted Kurt to be playing and not Matt.

I think Q said clearly they had confidence in both QB's. And prior to his playing not so hot - Q, Edge, and other were Leinarts biggest champions.

The reality is this is a mythical battle that we really can't do justice. i think with Matt we would have beat Carolina (i dont know if i could say that with KW) and played a tossup against both the Skins and TB - being that Matt has not shown well on the road and those are both good defenses.

My point remains. Kurt Warner is just good enough to break your heart. This season is a lost cause with him at the helm and at the very least, Leinart would have been getting much needed reps.

This team is all out cursed. if you would have asked me what the worst case scenario was for this season it would have been Leinart going down with injury early in the year. Sure 0-16 would suck but at least we would know what we have in our QB had he stayed healthy.

Now comes another offseason of discontent.

Sigh. Why do we cheer for this team again? Oh thats right cause eventually........we are going to catch a break.