Long live Whiz

[earthsci]

PACardsfan gave the best example about the ebbs and flows of coaching. Jeff Fisher has been in the league a long time and has had some great seasons and some treacherous ones. I can almost guarantee that the fickle Titans' fans asked for his head on a silver platter around this time in a losing battle.

Pittsburgh fans were begging for Cowher to get fired in '99 & '03 after he finished 6-10.

 

[NJCardFan]

These are simple generic responses about a head coach during a down season after a franchise has had success. Moves are over analyzed, fans hang on his every word and people begin to question his coaching prowess.

PACardsfan gave the best example about the ebbs and flows of coaching. Jeff Fisher has been in the league a long time and has had some great seasons and some treacherous ones. I can almost guarantee that the fickle Titans' fans asked for his head on a silver platter around this time in a losing battle. But eventually, he brings the team back to competitiveness. You can use other big name coaches as examples. Just go through their coaching record by each season and you'll see a similar pattern.

As for adjustments. Derek Anderson sucks and there is no offense in which he would succeed. Im sorry: the playbook is not called the "Kurt Warner" playbook. As a matter of fact, we have used more jumbo packages this season than we ever did with Kurt under center. So this assertion that Whis isnt adjusting is baseless, unequivocally.

I will say it again. Anderson is so bad, he is singlehandedly holding back this offense (and part of the defense for that matter). His inaccuracies and uncanny ability to overthrow 6'5" wideouts have been mentioned ad nauseum, but what really pisses me off is we are 31st in 3rd down conversion, which means we are constantly giving the ball back to the other team and leaving our defense on the field for way too long.

Is Whis completely infallible? No. Some of this was brought on by him. But the problem with fans like the aforementioned is they expect nothing but perfection and anything less merits automatic termination. Even if the team was to take that suggestion and fire Whis, what's a better option?

Bottom line is the man has proven success and like most successful NFL coaches, is having one bad season. But this is his first losing season as a head coach in four years of coaching. I would imagine a vast majority of NFL head coaches, past and present, would take that any day. Losing for Whisenhunt is not pathological and until it becomes so, the chatter that he is a bad head coach and needs to be fired should stop immediately.

The problem is Whiz doesn't accept responsibility. I mean in Sunday's presser, he basically threw the team under the bus. Blaming the personnel. Well, who brought in that personnel? Me? No, he did. This is his hand picked team. His hand picked coaching staff. And he talk about confidence, OK, how is the team supposed to have confidence when you have a 3rd and 1 and YOU PASS THE FREAKING BALL! He gives up on the running game far too early and this isn't anything new with him. And his play calling is atrocious. Look at the Minnesota game. We have a great goal line stand and his first play is a QB sneak? Wow. I can't imagine the team's lack of confidence when the head coach has no confidence in his team. And the Tampa game. In position already to at least tie the game and what does he do? Call passing plays down the middle.

And the reason why I don't think he is a good head coach is because of the moves he's made. He ran off every player Green brought in, including those players who helped him win a conference championship, just so he can bring in his buddies. Players like McFadden or Faneca not to mention believing a player like Brandon Keith is a good tackle. His player selection sucks. His game planning sucks. His play calling sucks but he's always quick to pass the blame. Am I ready to fire him? No. But don't go absolving him of any blame for the current team's woes. And would it kill him to actually run more than pass? Looks like the running game was actually working Sunday. So what if you have the occasional loss or no gain or short gain. So what? The passing game certainly isn't working so you might as well try to pound the ball. But, nope, his first no gain or loss and he tosses the running game out the window.

 

[Broseph]

I agree with this. Whiz is allowed some lousy seasons. The biggest thing is can he recover after an awful season and make progression?

 

[Duckjake]

I agree with this. Whiz is allowed some lousy seasons. The biggest thing is can he recover after an awful season and make progression?

As long as he doesn't continue to make bone headed mistakes like thinking that DeWreck Anderson was the answer at QB this season.

But on the other hand CKW is a great QB coach. DeWrecks yp attempt, completion % and QB rating are the highest since DA's pro-bowl season in 2007.

 

[azsouthendzone]

Bottom line is the man has proven success and like most successful NFL coaches, is having one bad season. But this is his first losing season as a head coach in four years of coaching. I would imagine a vast majority of NFL head coaches, past and present, would take that any day. Losing for Whisenhunt is not pathological and until it becomes so, the chatter that he is a bad head coach and needs to be fired should stop immediately.

His overall record is 30-28. By year's end he will be multiple games under .500. Hardly proven success.

If you look at Whiz based on this season alone, dismissal sounds ridiculous.

If you start to assess the big picture, than there is at minimum a debate to be had. If you cannot at least admit that there are dark clouds on the horizon and that there have been some dubious decisions, well then there is no point discussing further. But all of the Kool Aid in the world won't change reality.

Whiz has FAILED in the draft each season he has been here. FAILED. Not a C grade, a borderline F grade. Whiz has drafted a few nice players late such as Hightower Breaston, and Hyphen, none of which will ever be a consistent Pro Bowler, if ever, but when it comes to picks in the top 3 rounds they have been tragic misses. High draft picks are what good teams build around. Good drafts are what sustains success. Levi Brown over Adrian Peterson. TRADING UP to grab Alan Branch in the 2nd. Cutting 2nd round pick Cody Brown. Cutting 3rd round pick Buster Davis. The list of draft day failures is long and growing longer. Each game that passes where Beanie Wells trots into the line up in the 2nd quarter on his way to a 5 carry day, his future in AZ disappears.

Whiz free agents.......wow. Darren McFadden....need I say more?

Staff? He lets Bill Davis lead the switch to the 3-4, the same guy who was hired in SF to switch to the 3-4 and sent SF to the bottom of the league in defense before getting fired.

Managing personnel.......this is the NFL not some JC in the Midwest. With talent comes egos. Fact of life. If you can't deal with that then you won't last. The fact that he had a strained relationship with Roethlisberger and was passed over in Pittsburgh was overlooked. We all wondered how anyone could possibly have an issue with Mr. Smart, Tough, and Disciplined.

Then coach decides that his 2nd year, Heisman Trophy winning, top 10 pick QB is incapable of running a 2 minute drill or a hurry up. I'm sure that worked wonders for Leinart's confidence since all great young QB's before and since were pulled in similar situations.....

Anquan Boldin, arguably this team's heart and soul publicly says Whiz is a liar and a backstabber. Whiz makes an example out of Edge at the expense of the team only to completely turn a 180 when games actually counted.

Deuce Lutui, Gabe Watson, Alan Branch, Tim Hightower, Beanie Wells....just a few talented players who have had to endure the now infamous Coach Whiz Doghouse this year.

Then there is the QB decision to go with the worst QB AZ has ever known and moxie and intangibles over the guy who had been in the system and clearly was the best option....

At the end of the day, either the "system" that he preaches will work, guys will buy in, and the ship will turn or it won't. Only time will tell.

But to completely dismiss anyone who questions Whiz is pretty short sighted given the current situation. There were several events that lead up to the Super Bowl run, just as several events have lead to the current mess.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

For years I scratched my head as to why the Steelers would let Whis and Grimm get away.

Now I know why.

 

[john h]

I know many on this board are frustrated by the garbage we've had to watch this year. In many ways, this may be the most painful Cardinal team I have watched in the 47 years that I've followed this franchise. That's obviously due to the much higher expectations that we had coming in to the season. It was always my belief that good football teams had 2 things in common: a good QB & a good HC. It has become painstakingly obvious that if your QB sucks beyond words, then nothing else can reverse the suckiness of the team. Is Whiz partially to blame for this mess? Yes. He obviously grossly underestimated how horrible DA is & how green Hall & Skelton are. He also overestimated his Defense. Was the FO involved in this process? Perhaps, but we'll never know. Great coaches never, never divulge that information. Not if they want to stay employed. We will have to suffer through this season. But I have seen that look in Whiz's eye this past week. I'm hearing from respected AZ insiders that MAJOR changes are in the works. Davis is a goner, Grimm is on a short leash. Whiz will bring in an OC. The D will look quite different next year, if there's football next year. Can Whiz turn this around? Only if the FO is patient & loyal.

I know all of us want to see the Cardinals in the playoffs EVERY year. It's really tough to do that. Hell, Cowher couldn't do it in Pittsburgh. He was almost fired on 3 different occasions. Look at Jeff Fisher's record. He's the longest tenured coach in the NFL. He's had some great seasons, but some ugly ones too.

1994 1-5
1995 7-9
1996 8-8
1997 8-8
1998 8-8

1999 13-3 (lost in SB)
2000 13-3 (lost in Divisional Round)

2001 7-9

2002 11-5(lost AFC Championship game)
2003 12-4 (lost in Divisional game)

2004 5-11
2005 4-12
2006 8-8

2007 10-6 (lost wild card)
2008 13-4 (lost divisional game)
2009 8-8
2010 5-5 & trending downward

Moral of the story: There's peaks & valleys with even the more successful coaches. Trust me, Whiz HAS learned from this debacle. He just is not going to share that with us. Nor should he. I've seen that look in his eyes before (Pats loss 47-7). He's seething. Unfortunately, there's absolutely nothing he can do about it THIS year.

Good post. There appear to be some coaches who are better at turning losers into winners than others. Some coaches may be great when they have good players but just cannot make the right moves with a suspect team. Whiz came from a winning organization and rarely had to deal with adversity. Even then he was only responsible for the offense. Apparently he still cannot let go of that as he kept the OC duties to himself when he arrived here. With Kurt he could look like a genius. It was obvious that Kurt was the OC when he put on the pads and changed more than half the plays called in.

 

[john h]

Long live Whiz as a future OC somewhere. Guy can't draft or hire a free agent to save his life. Guy mismanages personnel. Things are going downhill fast and they will not get better. He will be fired next year.

We have no idea how much input Whiz has on who we draft. We do not even know if our GM has the final say. Drafting by the Cards is really a mystery as to who does what. Most GMs get input and then make the final call. Does anyone really think the Graves makes the final call? The man who makes the final call is like the guy behind the curtain at the end of the yellow brick road. He remains a mystery. Why? No one person has ever taken credit for drafting players. Who ever it is also must make any free agent deals. If I were him I would also keep my name shrouded in mystery. Is it Michale Bidwill? He controls the purse there is little doubt about that (along with senior of course).

 

[Zeno]

Fisher is overrated anyhow.

 

[john h]

I don't think we've seen how good a 'coach' Whiz is yet...

Hall of Fame QBs make coaches look much better than they are (who's the Head Coach of the Colts??? Oh yeah, who cares... they have Peyton Manning).

He showed the insight to hand the reigns over to Warner, so kudos on that... other than that, I haven't seen the genius in his coaching yet. So far this year (his first year without a HOF QB), I'd give him a D-...

Let the blasting begin!

Peyton Manning is clearly the OC on that team. He may get some calls from the OC but if he does not like it he will change it at the line of scrimmage. The OC may have a game plan to attack certain DBs or where to run but Peyton is the man when they line up. He decides what to call when he looks over the defense. You clearly can hear him changing plays on nearly every down. He is as smart as he is gifted with the skills of a legendary QB. I think he knows the play book better than the guy who wrote it.

 

[john h]

The only thing Graves does is bring Mike B coffee in the morning. Whiz's fingerprints are all over this mess.

I still think Graves must be a family relative else why would he still be around. I doubt any other team in the NFL would hire this guy. Why has he survived all these years? Another Cardinal mystery.

 

[azsouthendzone]

The problem is Whiz doesn't accept responsibility. I mean in Sunday's presser, he basically threw the team under the bus. Blaming the personnel. Well, who brought in that personnel? Me? No, he did. This is his hand picked team. His hand picked coaching staff. And he talk about confidence, OK, how is the team supposed to have confidence when you have a 3rd and 1 and YOU PASS THE FREAKING BALL! He gives up on the running game far too early and this isn't anything new with him. And his play calling is atrocious. Look at the Minnesota game. We have a great goal line stand and his first play is a QB sneak? Wow. I can't imagine the team's lack of confidence when the head coach has no confidence in his team. And the Tampa game. In position already to at least tie the game and what does he do? Call passing plays down the middle.

And the reason why I don't think he is a good head coach is because of the moves he's made. He ran off every player Green brought in, including those players who helped him win a conference championship, just so he can bring in his buddies. Players like McFadden or Faneca not to mention believing a player like Brandon Keith is a good tackle. His player selection sucks. His game planning sucks. His play calling sucks but he's always quick to pass the blame. Am I ready to fire him? No. But don't go absolving him of any blame for the current team's woes. And would it kill him to actually run more than pass? Looks like the running game was actually working Sunday. So what if you have the occasional loss or no gain or short gain. So what? The passing game certainly isn't working so you might as well try to pound the ball. But, nope, his first no gain or loss and he tosses the running game out the window.

Excellent post!

 

[Shane]

The guy did more prison time for harming dogs than most people who slaughter entire families get.

More idiotic talk. Could you please show me one case history where someone slaughtered an entire family and was out free roaming society 2 years later?

 

[Duckjake]

Fisher is overrated anyhow.

I'd trade the Cards last 15 years with the Titans under Fisher.

Wait maybe not. I would have missed Buddy Ryan walking out on the Christmas game. And Nate Poole getting the key to the City from the citizens of Green Bay and Denny Green's infamous tirade after the Bears fiasco....

 

[SeattleCard]

Long live Coach Whiz!

 

[TJ]

The problem is Whiz doesn't accept responsibility. I mean in Sunday's presser, he basically threw the team under the bus. Blaming the personnel. Well, who brought in that personnel? Me? No, he did. This is his hand picked team. His hand picked coaching staff. And he talk about confidence, OK, how is the team supposed to have confidence when you have a 3rd and 1 and YOU PASS THE FREAKING BALL! He gives up on the running game far too early and this isn't anything new with him. And his play calling is atrocious. Look at the Minnesota game. We have a great goal line stand and his first play is a QB sneak? Wow. I can't imagine the team's lack of confidence when the head coach has no confidence in his team. And the Tampa game. In position already to at least tie the game and what does he do? Call passing plays down the middle.

And the reason why I don't think he is a good head coach is because of the moves he's made. He ran off every player Green brought in, including those players who helped him win a conference championship, just so he can bring in his buddies. Players like McFadden or Faneca not to mention believing a player like Brandon Keith is a good tackle. His player selection sucks. His game planning sucks. His play calling sucks but he's always quick to pass the blame. Am I ready to fire him? No. But don't go absolving him of any blame for the current team's woes. And would it kill him to actually run more than pass? Looks like the running game was actually working Sunday. So what if you have the occasional loss or no gain or short gain. So what? The passing game certainly isn't working so you might as well try to pound the ball. But, nope, his first no gain or loss and he tosses the running game out the window.

Like any coach, fans are going to question play calling. But are we any better at this? No. It is a percentage game based on situation. Also, Whis gives his QBs autonomy at the line to change plays based on defensive set up.

Moreover, I know you want more runs than pass, but do you realize that because we are down so often that we cant really run as often?

As for Green's players. What do you mean? Rolle was easily replaced. Dansby's replacement will take the rest of the season to develop (D. Washington). Q was a McGinnis guy but that situation never worked out financially. So Green brought in players, but could he coach them up? No. He was able to make the most of them. For example, moving a struggling Rolle to FS. He changed a 1st round bust into a good safety.

And Ill just end on this: it is easy to throw a coach under the bus when he is down. Of course, no one was mitigating his coaching skills the previous three seasons. Whis is not a bad coach. He is a top 10 coach in this league and is still heralded as one. We are just having a bad season as a team. If/when losing becomes pathological, this is when we turn the nob on the stove on his career.

 

[TJ]

His overall record is 30-28. By year's end he will be multiple games under .500. Hardly proven success.

If you look at Whiz based on this season alone, dismissal sounds ridiculous.

If you start to assess the big picture, than there is at minimum a debate to be had. If you cannot at least admit that there are dark clouds on the horizon and that there have been some dubious decisions, well then there is no point discussing further. But all of the Kool Aid in the world won't change reality.

Whiz has FAILED in the draft each season he has been here. FAILED. Not a C grade, a borderline F grade. Whiz has drafted a few nice players late such as Hightower Breaston, and Hyphen, none of which will ever be a consistent Pro Bowler, if ever, but when it comes to picks in the top 3 rounds they have been tragic misses. High draft picks are what good teams build around. Good drafts are what sustains success. Levi Brown over Adrian Peterson. TRADING UP to grab Alan Branch in the 2nd. Cutting 2nd round pick Cody Brown. Cutting 3rd round pick Buster Davis. The list of draft day failures is long and growing longer. Each game that passes where Beanie Wells trots into the line up in the 2nd quarter on his way to a 5 carry day, his future in AZ disappears.

Whiz free agents.......wow. Darren McFadden....need I say more?

Staff? He lets Bill Davis lead the switch to the 3-4, the same guy who was hired in SF to switch to the 3-4 and sent SF to the bottom of the league in defense before getting fired.

Managing personnel.......this is the NFL not some JC in the Midwest. With talent comes egos. Fact of life. If you can't deal with that then you won't last. The fact that he had a strained relationship with Roethlisberger and was passed over in Pittsburgh was overlooked. We all wondered how anyone could possibly have an issue with Mr. Smart, Tough, and Disciplined.

Then coach decides that his 2nd year, Heisman Trophy winning, top 10 pick QB is incapable of running a 2 minute drill or a hurry up. I'm sure that worked wonders for Leinart's confidence since all great young QB's before and since were pulled in similar situations.....

Anquan Boldin, arguably this team's heart and soul publicly says Whiz is a liar and a backstabber. Whiz makes an example out of Edge at the expense of the team only to completely turn a 180 when games actually counted.

Deuce Lutui, Gabe Watson, Alan Branch, Tim Hightower, Beanie Wells....just a few talented players who have had to endure the now infamous Coach Whiz Doghouse this year.

Then there is the QB decision to go with the worst QB AZ has ever known and moxie and intangibles over the guy who had been in the system and clearly was the best option....

At the end of the day, either the "system" that he preaches will work, guys will buy in, and the ship will turn or it won't. Only time will tell.

But to completely dismiss anyone who questions Whiz is pretty short sighted given the current situation. There were several events that lead up to the Super Bowl run, just as several events have lead to the current mess.

You missed on almost all topics, but here's one you really whiffed on:

Bad drafts

As for drafting, look at these names that have had impact

2007
- Alan Branch (coming into his own)
- Steve Breaston

2008
- DRC
- Calais Campbell
- Hightower
- Keith (who was improving at RT prior to injury)

2009
- Beanie
- Toler
- Hyphen

All of these impact players. If a coach can get 3-4 picks a year to contribute at a high level, he'll take it.

Oh and im not dismissing everyone who thinks Whis is a bad coach, just proving everyone wrong. This sort of thinking is garbage, indisputably. Look at what the man has done for the franchise and you want to smear the guy? That sort of thinking displays either knee jerk reactions to the season or a simple lack of fundamental knowledge of how the game works.

But ill give you a clue: go back to PACardsfan's example (best post in this thread), read it carefully, look at other coach's tenures such as Bill Cowher and Bill Parcels and you'll see this sort of rebuilding process is common. And I understand why you feel the way you feel, just understand that Whis knows more than you about how this **** works. Simple.

 

[TJ]

As long as he doesn't continue to make bone headed mistakes like thinking that DeWreck Anderson was the answer at QB this season.

But on the other hand CKW is a great QB coach. DeWrecks yp attempt, completion % and QB rating are the highest since DA's pro-bowl season in 2007.

This is succinct. People on this board seem to think CKW has to be perfect. He is only human and is capable of making mistakes. He failed on this FA signing, but who's to say he wont redeem himself next season or the following with a stellar QB?

Yes I said it. It may take two offseasons to fix. Guess what? CKW will be there for those two years, unless he is caught in bed with M. Bidwill's wife.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I sincerely believe Whis is a great coach and it would be a HUGE mistake to dismiss him. But Davis is a huge problem and I will say it again...Wade Phillips would be a good coach for the defense

 

[azsouthendzone]

Whis is not a bad coach. He is a top 10 coach in this league and is still heralded as one.

WHAT???????

You can't be serious. Who outside of AZ would consider Whiz a top 10 coach? If anything he is heralded as a guy who had a great supporting cast and will be on the hot seat in 2011 and possibly out if a job.

 

[ajcardfan]

WHAT???????

You can't be serious. Who outside of AZ would consider Whiz a top 10 coach? If anything he is heralded as a guy who had a great supporting cast and will be on the hot seat in 2011 and possibly out if a job.

I would guess he's probably thought of more highly outside of Cardinals fans circles than inside right now. We pay attention to what actually happens with the team, they just see the name "Cardinals" and figure any coach who did what he did here the first three years has to be good.

 

[TJ]

WHAT???????

You can't be serious. Who outside of AZ would consider Whiz a top 10 coach? If anything he is heralded as a guy who had a great supporting cast and will be on the hot seat in 2011 and possibly out if a job.

#7

http://www.nfldraftbible.com/Daily-Dose/nfl-ranking-the-head-coaches-2010.html

# 8

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/feed/2010-09/sns-top-nfl-coaches

#8

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=tsn-166944

 

[azsouthendzone]

You missed on almost all topics, but here's one you really whiffed on:

Bad drafts

As for drafting, look at these names that have had impact

2007
- Alan Branch (coming into his own)
- Steve Breaston

2008
- DRC
- Calais Campbell
- Hightower
- Keith (who was improving at RT prior to injury)

2009
- Beanie
- Toler
- Hyphen

All of these impact players. If a coach can get 3-4 picks a year to contribute at a high level, he'll take it.

Impact players?.....Not one of those players is an impact player. They may get playing time, but that is because that is what we have. I can't believe that you actually threw in Campbell, Keith, and Branch. You mentioned more names on the verge of official bust status than actual impact players.

I said Breaston, Hightower, and Hyphen were decent as late round grabs. Congrats Whiz. Now show me anyone he has drafted in rounds 1-3 that is a perennial Pro Bowl player. I can name plenty from previous regimes all the way back to Stallings. Whisenhunt's drafts have been atrocious.

I notice you conveniently left out Whisenhunt's free agent acquisitions. I'm sure the next post will point to the impact of Porter, Anderson, Faneca, and McFadden. Those four moves are already Cardinals lore.

 

[azsouthendzone]

#7

http://www.nfldraftbible.com/Daily-Dose/nfl-ranking-the-head-coaches-2010.html

# 8

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/feed/2010-09/sns-top-nfl-coaches

#8

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=tsn-166944

Nice find. Those are classic, and from preseason. I love the quotes from Leinart in support of Whiz. Might want to save those because the rankings will be a little different at year's end.

 

[Rats]

WHAT???????

You can't be serious. Who outside of AZ would consider Whiz a top 10 coach? If anything he is heralded as a guy who had a great supporting cast and will be on the hot seat in 2011 and possibly out if a job.

This is exactly right. Whiz is a "good head coach". He however is not innovative like alot of headcoaches that receive accolades for changing the game. He has changed Arizona into a respectable place to play versus the armpit of the NFL. Many argue we are returning there because Whiz has failed in getting talent on the coaching staff and on the field. DG at least gave Whiz something to work with. Still Say Haley and Warner made the offensive game plan work. Whiz most certainly has failed at being an OC. He sucks at that and must get one here that can manage in game. He hired a crap DC that shouldn't be coaching at any level over High School. I will recognize that the Front Office is still suspect and may have hamstringed the Headcoach this year. I know several of us have said since season 1 that Whiz was not a very good X and O coach and he has again proven that. Dial down the Ego and get coaches that can Coordinate and see if that helps.Still need talent at Qb no matter what. Another offseason and season like this and Whiz will not have any fans around here. He lived off what DG provided him and Kurt Warners swan song. He needs to start his own revival this offseason or it will be ugly next season IMO.