Lonzo Ball

[slinslin]

Chris Paul

Chris Paul is not a 20ppg scorer?

 

[Chaplin]

Chris Paul is not a 20ppg scorer?

So scorers can't be facilitators? If that's the case, we must all be idiots for loving Kevin Johnson.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Chris Paul is not a 20ppg scorer?

Nope. He's a 18.7 ppg scorer and he's still a pass first PG.

 

[SirStefan32]

I think there are more scoring point guards in the NBA because there are more scorers than facilitators in general. Guys like John Stockton, Jason Kidd, and Steve Nash don't grow on trees. There are very few facilitators in general. That makes Ball more valuable, not less. Again- I don't really have a horse in this race- I think both of them will be fine players. As someone pointed out- it's vanilla vs. chocolate ice cream- both are delicious. To claim that one is clearly superior while the other one sucks is silly.

 

[Carolinacacti]

Please less facilitators because everyone wants a scorer. Nash could score when ever he wanted. Kid not so much.

So scorers can't be facilitators? If that's the case, we must all be idiots for loving Kevin Johnson.

Fultz will be drafted before Ball

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think there are more scoring point guards in the NBA because there are more scorers than facilitators in general. Guys like John Stockton, Jason Kidd, and Steve Nash don't grow on trees. There are very few facilitators in general. That makes Ball more valuable, not less. Again- I don't really have a horse in this race- I think both of them will be fine players. As someone pointed out- it's vanilla vs. chocolate ice cream- both are delicious. To claim that one is clearly superior while the other one sucks is silly.

dude... vanilla sucks balls (no pun intended).

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think there are more scoring point guards in the NBA because there are more scorers than facilitators in general. Guys like John Stockton, Jason Kidd, and Steve Nash don't grow on trees. There are very few facilitators in general. That makes Ball more valuable, not less. Again- I don't really have a horse in this race- I think both of them will be fine players. As someone pointed out- it's vanilla vs. chocolate ice cream- both are delicious. To claim that one is clearly superior while the other one sucks is silly.

Exactly this.

 

[JCSunsfan]

dude... vanilla sucks balls (no pun intended).

Liar.




The pun was intended.

 

[BC867]

dude... vanilla sucks balls (no pun intended).

When I was a kid, I thought vanilla ice cream was the equivalent of milk (which I hated). Then I found out that cream soda, which I loved, was actually "plain vanilla soda". I tried the ice cream again and realized the it had a flavor all its own. Almost like a mild form of root beer.

You ought to give vanilla ice cream a try. Cherry vanilla (vanilla ice cream with cherries) might be easier to try. I love chocolate ice cream and peach and strawberry and mint. All I'm saying is that vanilla ice cream is just as distinct and pleasurable as the rest.

OK, back to the Suns.

 

[slinslin]

So scorers can't be facilitators? If that's the case, we must all be idiots for loving Kevin Johnson.

Who said that?

People here are claiming Fultz isa scoring guard in a manner that would make you believe he can't be a facilitator.

People who are criticizing Ball, are doing so because he is not a scorer.

Steve Nash was a scorer, Chris Paul is a scorer, Kevin Johnson was a scorer.

They all could score. And nobody would call Kevin Johnson a so called "pass first" PG.

 

[sunsfan88]

I highly doubt balls dad is going to hurt the suns.

What about when he complains about playing time publicly? Or what about when he says "Damn, I wish a team with 16-17 titles like the lakers drafted my kid instead of the empty trophy case Suns!!" publicly?

Lonzo Ball is a nightmare waiting to happen for any team besides maybe the Lakers. I haven't felt more confident about anything else basketball related in quite some time.

 

[sunsfan88]

Fultz is a better defender, is faster, and a better shooter. He literally has zero holes in his game.

Fultz/Booker could end up being the 2nd best shooting backcourt in the league.

We just need to surround them with 3 & D guys at the 3 & 4 and an actual rim protector at the 5 and we're good.

 

[sunsfan88]

The idea that we should draft because we prefer a pass first PG is somewhat silly.

If that's the case, why not just stay put with Tyler Ulis? Ulis is a better passer and facilitator than Lonzo is and he's a better defender than Lonzo too despite being much shorter.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The idea that we should draft because we prefer a pass first PG is somewhat silly.

If that's the case, why not just stay put with Tyler Ulis? Ulis is a better passer and facilitator than Lonzo is and he's a better defender than Lonzo too despite being much shorter.

I keep seeing this about ulis on this board, but down the stretch it seemed like every night he was jacking up 20 shots alongside Booker and making a poor percentage.

 

[sunsfan88]

I keep seeing this about ulis on this board, but down the stretch it seemed like every night he was jacking up 20 shots alongside Booker and making a poor percentage.

There was an article in which Watson apparently told Ulis to change his gamestyle just to experiment and actually told Ulis to shoot more and pass less.

Because it was just some experiment with the season already over and many guys resting, I doubt he will shoot that many long term and should return to being pass first like he was before.

 

[slinslin]

I keep seeing this about ulis on this board, but down the stretch it seemed like every night he was jacking up 20 shots alongside Booker and making a poor percentage.

Yeah because we need our PG to be able to score too.

Ulis averaged 8apg in March and 7apg in April.

Also Ulis shot 48.5%FG in April and 37% from 3.

The only reason his shooting numbers sucked were because he shot 4-31 from 3 in March.

 

[Yuma]

I know everyone is looking at offense when comparing Fultz and Ball. I think you need the best defender of the two to pair with Booker. imho. We have facilitators and do alright as is on offense. We need better defense on the Suns, imho.

 

[Yuma]

What about when he complains about playing time publicly? Or what about when he says "Damn, I wish a team with 16-17 titles like the lakers drafted my kid instead of the empty trophy case Suns!!" publicly?

Lonzo Ball is a nightmare waiting to happen for any team besides maybe the Lakers. I haven't felt more confident about anything else basketball related in quite some time.

Charles Barkley already does this, and the Suns are OK. The Daddy Ball thing I am not worried about.

 

[sunsfan88]

Charles Barkley already does this, and the Suns are OK. The Daddy Ball thing I am not worried about.

Charles Barkley isn't an active player on the Suns.

Have you seen what Lonzo's dad has been saying about his UCLA teammates?

I can't imagine what his dad would say about Knight. Or Bledsoe or Booker after a bad shooting night.

You think players are gonna be okay with the father of one of their teammates bashing them publicly? It was create all types of animosity in the locker room.

Here's an example:

After the Suns first loss of next season, Lonzo's dad: "Maaaaynnee, the Suns would be so much better with my boy LaMelo instead of that bum Booker playing out there!". Puts Lonzo in an awkward situation because it's just father and the topic is his brother and puts Booker in an even more awkward situation.

If Lonzo was an Anthony Davis or Karl Anthony Towns or even John Wall type prospect then I would say sure let's take the risk. But he's not anywhere close and it's just not worth it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Charles Barkley isn't an active player on the Suns.

Have you seen what Lonzo's dad has been saying about his UCLA teammates?

I can't imagine what his dad would say about Knight. Or Bledsoe or Booker after a bad shooting night.

You think players are gonna be okay with the father of one of their teammates bashing them publicly? It was create all types of animosity in the locker room.

Here's an example:

After the Suns first loss of next season, Lonzo's dad: "Maaaaynnee, the Suns would be so much better with my boy LaMelo instead of that bum Booker playing out there!". Puts Lonzo in an awkward situation because it's just father and the topic is his brother and puts Booker in an even more awkward situation.

If Lonzo was an Anthony Davis or Karl Anthony Towns or even John Wall type prospect then I would say sure let's take the risk. But he's not anywhere close and it's just not worth it.

These guys are professionals. What do you think is going to happen? Booker and Ball get into a fight bc of something someone's daddy says? Cmon.

When Fitz sr and Fitz' brother were complaining about QBs not getting the ball to Fitz enough did the cardinals crater? No. This is stupid. Everyone (including likely Lonzo once he's the primary breadwinner in the family) will tell the dad to ****. Eventually he'll become just noise.

 

[Russ Smith]

These guys are professionals. What do you think is going to happen? Booker and Ball get into a fight bc of something someone's daddy says? Cmon.

When Fitz sr and Fitz' brother were complaining about QBs not getting the ball to Fitz enough did the cardinals crater? No. This is stupid. Everyone (including likely Lonzo once he's the primary breadwinner in the family) will tell the dad to ****. Eventually he'll become just noise.

I also suspect a big part of Lavar Ball right now is he mistakenly thinks his hype campaign will help Lonzo get drafted early and help him get the deal he wants for the Big Ballers Brand. I think when he finds out neither of those are true, and he might actually HARM Lonzo's draft prospects, he'll shut the hell up.

In the end he appears to be a guy who's very much about the bottom line, if and when he realizes what he's saying isn't helping the bottom line, he'll stop.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I also suspect a big part of Lavar Ball right now is he mistakenly thinks his hype campaign will help Lonzo get drafted early and help him get the deal he wants for the Big Ballers Brand. I think when he finds out neither of those are true, and he might actually HARM Lonzo's draft prospects, he'll shut the hell up.

In the end he appears to be a guy who's very much about the bottom line, if and when he realizes what he's saying isn't helping the bottom line, he'll stop.

I agree. In fact, has he said anything recently? I don't recall hearing anything. Maybe someone has already gotten his ear and caused him to see the light.

Now that said, I fully expect him to be a sound byte for the rest of lonzo' career. But easily ignored.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Maybe after the Lakers fell to 3rd and have a better than 50% chance of having no draft pick he decided "Eh, I may have to shut up now"

 

[Covert Rain]

I like Ball better than Fultz. It's not complete night and day but Fultz seems more likely to shoot instead of pass although I think he has proven he can do that too.

I am praying we don't have to decided between these two guys and get Jackson.

 

[JCSunsfan]

There are just certain things I don't buy in the whole debate.

1. "Lonzo can't get his shot off." I think he can.
2. Markelle has been working with a pro coach for years, so he is more polished, so his upside is lower than Ball." I don't buy this either. You don't knock a guy for showing he can develop. This makes two untenable assumptions. First, Markelle cannot develop more. Why not? Second, Lonzo can develop more. Maybe so, but there is not real assurance. I do not believe there is more upside with Lonzo than with Markelle.
3. "Team record makes no difference." We have already discussed this ad nauseum.