Lonzo Ball

[mojorizen7]

This franchise, I swear.

Come on Eric...the Suns will win a ton of regular season games with Ball, and they'll be fun to watch again. That's priceless in Phoenix.

 

[DevonCardsFan]

http://arizonasports.com/story/1153...l&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Lakers interest in Ball is a smoke screen, they dont want him. But they trade 2 to the Suns for Ball steal a 1st rd, the Draft will shape up...

Fultz Sixer
Ball Suns
Tatum Celtic or Foxx Kings

and Lakers get the Mia 1st and the guy they wanted all along Jackson. Great Laker Smoke screen

 

[3rdside]

http://arizonasports.com/story/1153...l&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Lakers interest in Ball is a smoke screen, they dont want him. But they trade 2 to the Suns for Ball steal a 1st rd, the Draft will shape up...

Fultz Sixer
Ball Suns
Tatum Celtic or Foxx Kings

and Lakers get the Mia 1st and the guy they wanted all along Jackson. Great Laker Smoke screen

Except it's not exactly a brilliant smokescreen I don't think - they've been taking negatively about Ball for weeks now and they already have a tall - 6'5" - PG in Russell that Magic Johnson can just as easily work with, that has a couple of years under his belt already, and that comes without the potential sidetracks of the Ball circus.

Jackson seems to me to be a much better fit.

 

[sunsfan88]

I don't think Ball is "ball dominant." Quite the opposite. He averaged 7+ assists/game and opened up the offense for pretty much everyone.

What I meant by ball dominant is that he needs the ball in his hands to make plays.

I guess I should've said high usage player. And high usage players aren't selfish players or anything. LeBron for example is one, same with CP3, Westbrook, Harden etc.

 

[3rdside]

Imagine we had the lakers pick still - did I say how much I LOVE YOU BRANDON KNIGHT.




But Ball forgives everything.

 

[3rdside]

http://arizonasports.com/story/1153...l&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Lakers interest in Ball is a smoke screen, they dont want him. But they trade 2 to the Suns for Ball steal a 1st rd, the Draft will shape up...

Fultz Sixer
Ball Suns
Tatum Celtic or Foxx Kings

and Lakers get the Mia 1st and the guy they wanted all along Jackson. Great Laker Smoke screen

LOL I got it totally back to front - you called it ... Unless it's an Inception like smokescreen in a smokescreen ... or maybe I'm just getting way too excited

 

[Cheesebeef]

I really don't care if the Lakers like or don't like Ball. They are morons if they pass up on him and we should be doing everything possible to make a deal there.

And the won't trade within their division thing obviously doesn't apply considering Boston and Philly just made their deal. Only prob is Philly had the 3rd pick in a 3 player draft, whereas we have the 4th and the guys the Lakers want might not be there at that point. C's are good either way with Jackson or Tatum.

 

[GatorAZ]

Looking at d'angelo russell - he's a 6'5" PG who's projecting well (15.6pts and 4.8ast)....Why does LA need Ball?

This is shaping up for the Suns - BALL! BALL! BALL!

Cause Russell is a SG. Brandon Knight has put up those mediocre assist numbers before.

 

[DevonCardsFan]

Except it's not exactly a brilliant smokescreen I don't think - they've been taking negatively about Ball for weeks now and they already have a tall - 6'5" - PG in Russell that Magic Johnson can just as easily work with, that has a couple of years under his belt already, and that comes without the potential sidetracks of the Ball circus.

Jackson seems to me to be a much better fit.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/246310/Lakers-Moving-Towards-Picking-Lonzo-Ball-At-No-2

This smokescreen they talk all this crap on Ball try to trade the pick, showing lukewarm interest and now they are taking him at 2, Right when it looks like he could easily fall to 4. The Lakers are trying to not take ball and score a 1st rounder and still snag someone at 4, that they probably were leaning to take @2

 

[3rdside]

Cause Russell is a SG. Brandon Knight has put up those mediocre assist numbers before.

He's been playing the PG role for 2 years now though...

Not that it's much of a trend but 3.3ast rookie season to 4.8ast last year is a decent leap and he's still only playing 28 minutes a game.

Per 36 that's 6 assists a game - one more and he's in penny hardaway territory, statistically speaking.

 

[GatorAZ]

Look past the assist numbers and watch him play. Brandon Knight and Monta Ellis can get assists but they're not PG's.

 

[3rdside]

I'm totally reaching for an excuse for the lakers to trade us the #2 ... it's just not going to happen is it.


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[CardsSunsDbacks]

What I meant by ball dominant is that he needs the ball in his hands to make plays.

I guess I should've said high usage player. And high usage players aren't selfish players or anything. LeBron for example is one, same with CP3, Westbrook, Harden etc.

I don't agree with this either. Ball had possibly the lowest usage out of any player in college last year that is also projected to go high in this draft. Watching his games a lot of his assists came directly after catching the ball. He also doesn't look for his own shot nearly at the level that a high usage player does and thus his usage numbers would be pretty low.

Additionally he had just the 5th highest usage on his own team at UCLA. Don't think that could be said about most top prospects in any draft.

 

[Raze]

Ball's comp to Jason Kidd is about as spot on as it gets. (No where close to Steve Nash. Totally different type of PG.) The biggest difference is that Ball was 8% more productive in college on his 3's. Both are full court players with incredible vision that love to set up teammates. Both had unorthodox shots. Jason just plain sucked as a shooter until he was in his 50's.

Kidd brought two teams up 20+ wins the year he came to them: Dallas and NJ. He immediately upgraded every position during the regular season. I can totally see Ball doing the same thing.

Here's the problem, they both suck in the half court with almost no mid range game. Which is why I'd say Ball, like Kidd, is a great regular season guy. He'll give any poor team a massive boost with his full court prowess. But when the playoffs come, and the game inevitably becomes more half court with intense D, he'll be exposed like Jason was time and time again.

Ball will probably end up like Kidd in that teams will appreciate what he does for them for a time, but eventually realize he won't get you over the hump. He'll probably sift through 5 or so teams for his career rarely winning anything significant. (Barring he lands on a SuperTeam)

And it's not like this kid doesn't have baggage already. Let's just apply the logic that "apples don't fall from trees" for a bit. No, Lonzo isn't outspoken like his dad. But how is it that he ONLY works out for ONE team and shows up OUT OF SHAPE!?! The Lakers themselves were stunned at how bad it was. If the one team that you'll LET draft you doesn't want you, then what? If this kid is NOT like his father why isn't he working out for other teams? I'm sure countless advisers told him to work out with multiple teams, but he refused. That's arrogant. Just like his dad. It's just passive arrogance.

What happens when the HC says he needs to change the form on his shot, or learn half court offense, or actually play defense? Money has it that Lavar will try to get that coach fired.

That's FAR too much baggage to risk taking at #2 with this deep of a draft. If he's there at #4 trade back or let him pass.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Ball's comp to Jason Kidd is about as spot on as it gets. (No where close to Steve Nash. Totally different type of PG.) The biggest difference is that Ball was 8% more productive in college on his 3's. Both are full court players with incredible vision that love to set up teammates. Both had unorthodox shots. Jason just plain sucked as a shooter until he was in his 50's.

Kidd brought two teams up 20+ wins the year he came to them: Dallas and NJ. He immediately upgraded every position during the regular season. I can totally see Ball doing the same thing.

Here's the problem, they both suck in the half court with almost no mid range game. Which is why I'd say Ball, like Kidd, is a great regular season guy. He'll give any poor team a massive boost with his full court prowess. But when the playoffs come, and the game inevitably becomes more half court with intense D, he'll be exposed like Jason was time and time again.

Ball will probably end up like Kidd in that teams will appreciate what he does for them for a time, but eventually realize he won't get you over the hump. He'll probably sift through 5 or so teams for his career rarely winning anything significant. (Barring he lands on a SuperTeam)

And it's not like this kid doesn't have baggage already. Let's just apply the logic that "apples don't fall from trees" for a bit. No, Lonzo isn't outspoken like his dad. But how is it that he ONLY works out for ONE team and shows up OUT OF SHAPE!?! The Lakers themselves were stunned at how bad it was. If the one team that you'll LET draft you doesn't want you, then what? If this kid is NOT like his father why isn't he working out for other teams? I'm sure countless advisers told him to work out with multiple teams, but he refused. That's arrogant. Just like his dad. It's just passive arrogance.

What happens when the HC says he needs to change the form on his shot, or learn half court offense, or actually play defense? Money has it that Lavar will try to get that coach fired.

That's FAR too much baggage to risk taking at #2 with this deep of a draft. If he's there at #4 trade back or let him pass.

I can somewhat agree, but Kidd wen't to like 4 finals and won one of those with Dallas. To say he was "exposed" in the post season is a gross overstatement.

 

[mojorizen7]

Yeah i don't put Kidd into that category of elite, distributing PG's who were exposed in the post season. A big reason for that?

4 x NBA all defensive first team
5 x NBA all defensive second team

I see the similarities offensively but Lonzo Ball isn't going to help you on the defensive end in the playoffs when he's asked to guard all of these great scorers.

I prefer Fox over Ball.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ball's comp to Jason Kidd is about as spot on as it gets. (No where close to Steve Nash. Totally different type of PG.) The biggest difference is that Ball was 8% more productive in college on his 3's. Both are full court players with incredible vision that love to set up teammates. Both had unorthodox shots. Jason just plain sucked as a shooter until he was in his 50's.

Kidd brought two teams up 20+ wins the year he came to them: Dallas and NJ. He immediately upgraded every position during the regular season. I can totally see Ball doing the same thing.

Here's the problem, they both suck in the half court with almost no mid range game. Which is why I'd say Ball, like Kidd, is a great regular season guy. He'll give any poor team a massive boost with his full court prowess. But when the playoffs come, and the game inevitably becomes more half court with intense D, he'll be exposed like Jason was time and time again.

Ball will probably end up like Kidd in that teams will appreciate what he does for them for a time, but eventually realize he won't get you over the hump. He'll probably sift through 5 or so teams for his career rarely winning anything significant. (Barring he lands on a SuperTeam)

And it's not like this kid doesn't have baggage already. Let's just apply the logic that "apples don't fall from trees" for a bit. No, Lonzo isn't outspoken like his dad. But how is it that he ONLY works out for ONE team and shows up OUT OF SHAPE!?! The Lakers themselves were stunned at how bad it was. If the one team that you'll LET draft you doesn't want you, then what? If this kid is NOT like his father why isn't he working out for other teams? I'm sure countless advisers told him to work out with multiple teams, but he refused. That's arrogant. Just like his dad. It's just passive arrogance.

What happens when the HC says he needs to change the form on his shot, or learn half court offense, or actually play defense? Money has it that Lavar will try to get that coach fired.

That's FAR too much baggage to risk taking at #2 with this deep of a draft. If he's there at #4 trade back or let him pass.

Uh jason Kidd took the nets pretty far in the playoffs and won a championship in Dallas if I'm not mistaken.

And it's amazing that so many of you don't understand the dynamics of an overbearing father with an 18 year old kid. You think lonzo has "advisers?" His father is likely his only adviser and likely has been for his whole life. And this isn't a scenario of most of the kids coming out from broken homes. Lavar got his family to middle class and kept the family together and strong. He's a WAY dominant figure. The fact that lonzo was okay with poking fun at his pop in that ad said volumes to me about his understanding of all this. And his maturity in the face of people just tearing down his father (of which I'm admittedly one).

 

[devilalum]

I really don't care if the Lakers like or don't like Ball. They are morons if they pass up on him and we should be doing everything possible to make a deal there.

And the won't trade within their division thing obviously doesn't apply considering Boston and Philly just made their deal. Only prob is Philly had the 3rd pick in a 3 player draft, whereas we have the 4th and the guys the Lakers want might not be there at that point. C's are good either way with Jackson or Tatum.

You contradicted yourself. You said the Celts traded to 3 because it's a 3 player draft. Then you said they'd be happy with Jackson or Tatum?


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[MaoTosiFanClub]

Just absorb Deng or Mozgov and we can probably get the 2. Would be annoying for a couple years if the brass really think Lonzo is a generational star then you have to do it.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You contradicted yourself. You said the Celts traded to 3 because it's a 3 player draft. Then you said they'd be happy with Jackson or Tatum?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think the... eh... I don't know. I think they traded to 3 because they know 1 of the 2 guys they want will definitely be there.

i don't know.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Just absorb Deng or Mozgov and we can probably get the 2. Would be annoying for a couple years if the brass really think Lonzo is a generational star then you have to do it.

x1000

 

[Mainstreet]

Just absorb Deng or Mozgov and we can probably get the 2. Would be annoying for a couple years if the brass really think Lonzo is a generational star then you have to do it.

Those salaries run on for three more years. Still if you can get a star, you do it. I wish Knight could be included.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/los_angeles_lakers/

 

[Raze]

I can somewhat agree, but Kidd wen't to like 4 finals and won one of those with Dallas. To say he was "exposed" in the post season is a gross overstatement.

"Exposed" was a poorly chosen word.

But while in Phoenix in games he started his winning percentage was:
Regular Season: 65% (200-109)
Post Season: 38% (6-16)
He never won a series here.

He went to 3 Finals, 2 with NJ and 1 with Dallas. He was other worldy his first two years in NJ. I remember telling my friend after he was traded there that he was going to set NJ on fire trying to prove himself. He went beyond that. I was happy he and Shawn won in Dallas, but I feel that's a whole different story.

Uh jason Kidd took the nets pretty far in the playoffs and won a championship in Dallas if I'm not mistaken.

And it's amazing that so many of you don't understand the dynamics of an overbearing father with an 18 year old kid. You think lonzo has "advisers?" His father is likely his only adviser and likely has been for his whole life. And this isn't a scenario of most of the kids coming out from broken homes. Lavar got his family to middle class and kept the family together and strong. He's a WAY dominant figure. The fact that lonzo was okay with poking fun at his pop in that ad said volumes to me about his understanding of all this. And his maturity in the face of people just tearing down his father (of which I'm admittedly one).

By "advisers" I mean when he's alone talking to Steve Alford or older wiser ex NBA players and coaches. I'm sure they're advising him to visit every team he can. NO WAY are they supporting what he is doing.

That commercial is HUGE for his image. Even I gained new found respect for the guy.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

"Exposed" was a poorly chosen word.

But while in Phoenix in games he started his winning percentage was:
Regular Season: 65% (200-109)
Post Season: 38% (6-16)
He never won a series here.

He went to 3 Finals, 2 with NJ and 1 with Dallas. He was other worldy his first two years in NJ. I remember telling my friend after he was traded there that he was going to set NJ on fire trying to prove himself. He went beyond that. I was happy he and Shawn won in Dallas, but I feel that's a whole different story.



By "advisers" I mean when he's alone talking to Steve Alford or older wiser ex NBA players and coaches. I'm sure they're advising him to visit every team he can. NO WAY are they supporting what he is doing.

That commercial is HUGE for his image. Even I gained new found respect for the guy.

To be fair his teams in az were never great. Had mcdyess stayed it might have had an opportunity for greater success.

 

[Raze]

To be fair his teams in az were never great. Had mcdyess stayed it might have had an opportunity for greater success.

Nick Van Exel and the lock-out stole it from us. Those were dark days my friend... dark days. SMH

But this proves my point. Jason was able to take a moderate basketball team and make them win 65% of the time during the regular season (Essentially a 52-30 team). But when the playoffs show up they're 38%.

He was a regular season star, but couldn't generate wins when it mattered.

And minus his utterly amazing run in 01-02 and 02-03, he really didn't do much else. (And let's not forget how utterly awful the East Conference was back then. In 01-02, the 8th seed in the West had as many wins as the 4th seed in the East)