Looking at Hill Play

[azirish]

After Hill was signed, I ran these videos. I think a lot people are missing what he brings to the court.

It may seem confusing because there are a lot of clips from when he was a Piston, but even in the ones from his Magic period a guy who is very quick with great moves and decent lift.

Suns Trailer - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1EZ7mp6x_c

Grant Hill - Clutch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg35bBRahrY

Vid - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D87f7aehrnA This video mixes a lot of old Pistons stuff with some more recent Magic material. It would nice if we were getting the Piston's guy.

2005 All Star Highlights http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJZUvj9Y6pE

Marion, Hill, Allen Mix http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txVU4bdrcr4
Hill shows a lot more lift than I think most of us give him credit for.

Hill Style http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcml66cYi7o This includes material all the way back to his college days

---------------------------------------------------------------
It is hard to pull out all the Detroit stuff from the videos, but it looks like he can still get up in the air and has some great moves. Hill is extremely good going left especially off a crossover move. It appears he's got some spin moves that are as imprssive as nything Manu can do. It appears his arms are remarkably long which he really uses in finishing those shots.

 

[Ryanwb]

You posted this exact thing a month and a half ago... Are you a real person or a posting bot?

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=93487

 

[fordronken]

You posted this exact thing a month and a half ago... Are you a real person or a posting bot?

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=93487

Hahahahaha. That's hilarious.

 

[elindholm]

 

[azirish]

-

After Hill was signed, I ran these videos. I think a lot people are missing what he brings to the court.

There are a fair number of new people to this board. In any case, after some comments about Hill and his age, I thought it would be useful to show what he actually looks like.

Hill brings a totally new dimension to this team. His ability to maneuver through traffic and attack the basket against opposition is really extraordinary. Amare can overpower and Nash can dipsy do; but Hill has a bit of both along with his own unique moves.

When you look at what Hill was doing in Orlando, he did it with relatively weak point guards. Their entire team averaged only 18.6 assists per game with Hill getting fewer field goal attempts (660 and 51.8%) than either Nelson (875 43.0%) and Turkoglu (823 41.9). In 2004-05 Hill took 1015 shots and averaged 19.7 ppg.

For Hill, the idea of playing with Nash has to feel like going to heaven. Add in the fact that in Orlando where he was playing in an offense that put Howard right under the basket rather than the Suns' pick and roll offense with the center at the elbow - Hill could score a lot of points.

Having a major "3rd option" on offense makes the rest of the offense that much more dangerous. My intial thought is something along the lines of what the Suns offense looked like in 2004-05:

Amare - Amare
Marion - Marion
Nash - Nash
Richardson - Bell
Johnson - Hill

Bell is much better shooting and defending than Q, but not as good rebounding. Hill is not the three point shooter JJ was, but is far better at getting to the basket.

In 2004-05, JJ took 295 close in shots (layups etc) out of 1179 total attemps and hit 54.2% of them.

In 2006-07, Hill took 269 close in shots out of 660 total and hit 70.3% of them. In 2004-05, Hill took 323 close shots out of 1015 total attemps and hit 63.2%.

Obviously the approach will different, but Hill should become a big part of the Suns offense and make them much harder to stop.

 

[Cheesebeef]

After Hill was signed, I ran these videos. I think a lot people are missing what he brings to the court.

It may seem confusing because there are a lot of clips from when he was a Piston, but even in the ones from his Magic period a guy who is very quick with great moves and decent lift.

Suns Trailer - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1EZ7mp6x_c

Grant Hill - Clutch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg35bBRahrY

Vid - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D87f7aehrnA This video mixes a lot of old Pistons stuff with some more recent Magic material. It would nice if we were getting the Piston's guy.

2005 All Star Highlights http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJZUvj9Y6pE

Marion, Hill, Allen Mix http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txVU4bdrcr4
Hill shows a lot more lift than I think most of us give him credit for.

Hill Style http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcml66cYi7o This includes material all the way back to his college days

---------------------------------------------------------------
It is hard to pull out all the Detroit stuff from the videos, but it looks like he can still get up in the air and has some great moves. Hill is extremely good going left especially off a crossover move. It appears he's got some spin moves that are as imprssive as nything Manu can do. It appears his arms are remarkably long which he really uses in finishing those shots.

why do you keep posting highlight packages of Grant Hill pre-7 year ankle problems? If we were getting that guy, I could understand it, but to watch these and proclaim "he can still get up in the air" or "shows a lot more lift that I think most give him credit for" is simply ridiculous, unless you're blind and can't distinguish a Piston jersey from the four of five shots total of him scoring layups in a Magic jersey.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

-

There are a fair number of new people to this board. In any case, after some comments about Hill and his age, I thought it would be useful to show what he actually looks like.

Hill brings a totally new dimension to this team. His ability to maneuver through traffic and attack the basket against opposition is really extraordinary. Amare can overpower and Nash can dipsy do; but Hill has a bit of both along with his own unique moves.

When you look at what Hill was doing in Orlando, he did it with relatively weak point guards. Their entire team averaged only 18.6 assists per game with Hill getting fewer field goal attempts (660 and 51.8%) than either Nelson (875 43.0%) and Turkoglu (823 41.9). In 2004-05 Hill took 1015 shots and averaged 19.7 ppg.

For Hill, the idea of playing with Nash has to feel like going to heaven. Add in the fact that in Orlando where he was playing in an offense that put Howard right under the basket rather than the Suns' pick and roll offense with the center at the elbow - Hill could score a lot of points.

Having a major "3rd option" on offense makes the rest of the offense that much more dangerous. My intial thought is something along the lines of what the Suns offense looked like in 2004-05:

Amare - Amare
Marion - Marion
Nash - Nash
Richardson - Bell
Johnson - Hill

Bell is much better shooting and defending than Q, but not as good rebounding. Hill is not the three point shooter JJ was, but is far better at getting to the basket.

In 2004-05, JJ took 295 close in shots (layups etc) out of 1179 total attemps and hit 54.2% of them.

In 2006-07, Hill took 269 close in shots out of 660 total and hit 70.3% of them. In 2004-05, Hill took 323 close shots out of 1015 total attemps and hit 63.2%.

Obviously the approach will different, but Hill should become a big part of the Suns offense and make them much harder to stop.

why not bump your own thread then? Your post count goes up the same.

 

[Cheesebeef]

-

There are a fair number of new people to this board. In any case, after some comments about Hill and his age, I thought it would be useful to show what he actually looks like.

then why don't you find a Magic highlight package of him, instead of showing us the player he was almost a decade ago, before injuries destroyed his body? Probably because there isn't a highlight package like that because he's far removed from being one of the best players in the game, like he was in everything you posted.

now, that's not to say Hill won't be a contributor and a good one - he will if he stays healthy, but it's just ridiculous to say people don't really know what they're getting and then educating them with highlights from a bygone era.

 

[fordronken]

I wonder if he posted Penny Hardaway clips from Orlando on a Heat message board.

 

[Cheesebeef]

honestly, this would be akin to a Rockets fan posting highlights of Barkley in his Philly days in response to his trade from Phoenix and saying look at this guy we're getting!

 

[playstation]

god, imagine if we were in the running for reggie miller or allan houston or something. yikes!

 

[fordronken]

honestly, this would be akin to a Rockets fan posting highlights of Barkley in his Philly days in response to his trade from Phoenix and saying look at this guy we're getting!

Yeah, except I don't think Hill is gonna win the MVP this year.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yeah, except I don't think Hill is gonna win the MVP this year.

uh, ford, I was talking about a Rockets fan posting that after Barkley got traded from us to the Rockets. But even that's stretching it considering the year Barkley was traded to the Rox, he averaged 23 and 11and was 3rd team All-NBA - still miles ahead of where Hill is at this point in his career.

 

[fordronken]

uh, ford, I was talking about a Rockets fan posting that after Barkley got traded from us to the Rockets. But even that's stretching it considering the year Barkley was traded to the Rox, he averaged 23 and 11and was 3rd team All-NBA - still miles ahead of where Hill is at this point in his career.

Wow. It's been a long day. I need a drink.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Wow. It's been a long day. I need a drink.

don't we all my friend, long day or not!

 

[Cheesebeef]

i really hate threads like this because they're built on a completely false premise and then when I debate the false premise, it probably seems like I'm just crushing Hill. In reality, i think if he's healthy, he will make us more difficult to defend than we've ever been, but he ain't gonna be the guy in those videos and to expect that is just setting yourself up for major disappointment.

 

[fordronken]

i really hate threads like this because they're built on completely false premises and then when I debate the false premise, it probably seems like I'm just crushing Hill. In reality, i think if he's healthy, he will make us more difficult to defend than we've ever been, but he ain't gonna be the guy in those videos and to expect that is just setting yourself up for major disappointment.

Well said.

 

[slinslin]

Why wouldnt he be the guy he was in Orlando last year? Their most important player even with Dwight Howard around, GHill made the difference almost always.

He can be a difference maker on the Suns as well. He has lots of intangibles like Nash, Kidd and a few others. He makes his teams better.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Why wouldnt he be the guy he was in Orlando last year?

who's saying he won't? People are taking umbrage with George intimating he'll be the player he was 7 years ago by posting ancient highlights of him.

 

[azirish]

The videos are very confusing because the mix in Magic stuff with Piston stuff, but watch the color of the uniforms. There are a lot of Magic items.

I wish people would just do Magic videos so we can be sure what we are looking at. From a physical standpoint, the 2005 All Star game is probably the best look at what he can do.

Why did I repost? There has been a lot of griping about what can be expected of Hill, based on his age and an injury problem that has not recurred in the past three years. This does not mean he won't get hit by a bus next week, but I think it is reasonable to assume he will play at least as well as he did in Orlando and probably better with the Suns offense.

Personally, I find the negativity about Hill odd. There

 

[azirish]

The videos are very confusing because the mix in Magic stuff with Piston stuff, but watch the color of the uniforms. There are a lot of Magic items.

I wish people would just do Magic videos so we can be sure what we are looking at. From a physical standpoint, the 2005 All Star game is probably the best look at what he can do.

Why did I repost? There has been a lot of griping about what can be expected of Hill, based on his age and an injury problem that has not recurred in the past three years. This does not mean he won't get hit by a bus next week, but I think it is reasonable to assume he will play at least as well as he did in Orlando and probably better with the Suns offense.

Personally, I find the negativity about Hill odd. There is enough evidence to show that he's still physically able to made a big impact that I'm excited.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Its not negativity, its outright fear. The guy was injured so often in the last half decade that he made like half a million dollars per game played with his orlando contract.

That completely warrants fear man. Granted, it wont be a financial loss, but with out short rotation a lot of importance weighs on his health.

 

[azirish]

Its not negativity, its outright fear. The guy was injured so often in the last half decade that he made like half a million dollars per game played with his orlando contract.

That completely warrants fear man. Granted, it wont be a financial loss, but with out short rotation a lot of importance weighs on his health.

The same could be said about Camby and the number of people anxious to trade for him are legion. Hill has not had an ankle injury in three years (2005-06 was hamstring and then hernia). We can find reasons to worry about 3/4 of the Suns lineup, but it is not reasonable for Hill to generate this huge amount of negativity.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The same could be said about Camby and the number of people anxious to trade for him are legion. Hill has not had an ankle injury in three years (2005-06 was hamstring and then hernia). We can find reasons to worry about 3/4 of the Suns lineup, but it is not reasonable for Hill to generate this huge amount of negativity.

and that's EXACTLY what I was talking about as far as why I hate threads built on faulty premises. There's no "huge amount of negativity" towards Grant Hill George - there's just pointed criticism of someone making a baseless claim and then using ancient evidence to back it up... for the second time.

The negativity you're reading isn't aimed at the subject of the thread, it's aimed at it's AUTHOR. I don't understand how you can't see that, but then again, you see Hill still having "pretty good lift" based on stuff that happened 7 years ago, so I guess it shouldn't surprise me.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I wish people would just do Magic videos so we can be sure what we are looking at.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why there are loads of Hill packages pre-orlando and post-Orlando George.

From a physical standpoint, the 2005 All Star game is probably the best look at what he can do.

so, a game from two years ago, in which zero defense is played, is the what we should look at what he can do, even though he's two years older now and in between that game and now, he missed almost an entire season with a different set of injuries?