Lost - The Final Season (Spoilers)

[Chaplin]

"the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it."

Funny.. Juliette was in the church... so was Penny. Neither of them were in season 1 if I'm not mistaken.

And the biggest non-season 1 person: Desmond

 

[Cheesebeef]

and apparently those final shots weren't put in there from the producer's to mess with the audience. They were put in there by the Network who wanted a way to transition to the News after an emotional ending.

http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/05/26/lost-final-scenes-wreckage/

 

[Cheesebeef]

And the biggest non-season 1 person: Desmond

yeah, I couldn't remember if he was in a Flashback with Jack in season 1 or not.

personally, I think that email above is complete and utter bs. Anyone claiming to be Damon and Cuse's assistant who spilled those beans would have a death wish as far as their careers were concerned IMO. You don't piss off two of the biggest names in TV by showing the world what's behind the curtain, especially when they've said they would never do interviews about the secrets of the show again.

 

[Gaddabout]

yeah, I couldn't remember if he was in a Flashback with Jack in season 1 or not.

personally, I think that email above is complete and utter bs. Anyone claiming to be Damon and Cuse's assistant who spilled those beans would have a death wish as far as their careers were concerned IMO. You don't piss off two of the biggest names in TV by showing the world what's behind the curtain, especially when they've said they would never do interviews about the secrets of the show again.

It probably is, but I thought it was a fairly thoughtful and positive review, if nothing else. It's well written and frames how I think the show was supposed to be viewed.

 

[Covert Rain]

"the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it."

Funny.. Juliette was in the church... so was Penny. Neither of them were in season 1 if I'm not mistaken.

Good point. However, in the flashbacks Juliette was involved from the start pulling some strings for the Others since the day of the crash. I guess that could be considered a link. That still wouldn't explain how the ending never changed though.

I am thinking the email is bogus. I agree with about 90% of it though.

One major problem with the above:


Jack did not kill Smokey. Kate did!

People keep re-telling this wrong in their posts justifying Jack's role. Jack was about to be killed by Smokey when Kate shot him. Some might see this as a small detail, but if it's part of an argument that Jack's purpose was to kill the MiB--it's not.

Kate shot him but he didn't die from the gunshot. He died after Jack kicked him off the cliff and he hit bottom. Locke/Smokey/Samuel died when he hit bottom. Would Kate's gunshot have eventually killed him? Probably but that is not what happened.

 

[Griffin]

I'd also like to know how a) Ben survived a HUGE tree falling on him and b) after showing three people couldn't get it off of him, they all of a sudden just show up miraculously, with Ben completely okay.

I wondered the same thing when I saw that, but then I remembered reading that there's an extra 20 minutes of the finale omitted from the broadcast to be released on dvd later. Perhaps how Ben got out from under the tree was one of the things omitted?

Also, I thought going down the well was a fate worse than death... uh... after Jack plugged the leak, he was down in the well, in the light, same as MIB and... he was fine, miraculously ended up OUT of the well and then died and had a fate much better than death. Why didn't Jack end up the smoke monster at that point? I mean, if Jacob's mom knew that going down there was a fate worse than death, that means she had to have prior experience seeing it happen to someone... so why didn't it happen again?

I'd like to know that too. I don't think there is a good explanation for that. Desmond was supposedly immune, but not Jack.

 

[Chaplin]

Good point. However, in the flashbacks Juliette was involved from the begging pulling some strings for the others since the day of the crash. I guess that could be considered a link. That still wouldn't explain how the ending never changed though.

I am thinking the email is bogus. I agree with about 90% of it though.

It sounds like someone just describing their theories in such a way that they make it sound like it's some sort of "official" description.

 

[Cheesebeef]

It sounds like someone just describing their theories in such a way that they make it sound like it's some sort of "official" description.

agreed.

 

[Pariah]

Another reason I don't believe the final scene was written from the start: Jack wasn't supposed to be a central character in the show.

 

[green machine]

I wondered the same thing when I saw that, but then I remembered reading that there's an extra 20 minutes of the finale omitted from the broadcast to be released on dvd later. Perhaps how Ben got out from under the tree was one of the things omitted?

I'd like to know that too. I don't think there is a good explanation for that. Desmond was supposedly immune, but not Jack.

Maybe, as the Island's protector, he had that special power too? Smokey wasn't the protector when he was sent into the well.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Maybe, as the Island's protector, he had that special power too? Smokey wasn't the protector when he was sent into the well.

if that was the case, why didn't Jacob just do the same thing as the island's protector?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Another reason I don't believe the final scene was written from the start: Jack wasn't supposed to be a central character in the show.

where did you hear this Pariah? In almost every draft of the script, even the draft my boss was involved in it's very nascent stage, Jack was the main character.

 

[Evil Ash]

where did you hear this Pariah? In almost every draft of the script, even the draft my boss was involved in it's very nascent stage, Jack was the main character.

There was a rumor or a report somewhere that Jack was supposed to be killed off early in the series. IIRC He was supposed to die instead of the pilot in the first season or so the story goes.

 

[Evil Ash]

if that was the case, why didn't Jacob just do the same thing as the island's protector?

After seeing what happened to his brother, he may have been to afraid to.

 

[Cheesebeef]

There was a rumor or a report somewhere that Jack was supposed to be killed off early in the series. IIRC He was supposed to die instead of the pilot in the first season or so the story goes.

the story's not true.

 

[Louis]

where did you hear this Pariah? In almost every draft of the script, even the draft my boss was involved in it's very nascent stage, Jack was the main character.

From IMDB.com

Originally, Michael Keaton was cast as Jack. In the first draft of the script Jack was to be killed by the monster after they arrived at the cockpit. ABC told the producers that they shouldn't kill off the hero so soon in the series and the script was changed. After the change, Michael Keaton backed out of the role since he did not want to commit to a regular series.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0411008/trivia

 

[Russ Smith]

where did you hear this Pariah? In almost every draft of the script, even the draft my boss was involved in it's very nascent stage, Jack was the main character.

I remember reading it, Jack was supposed to die in the first season but they changed their minds. NO idea if it was true but I know I read it.

 

[Covert Rain]

the story's not true.

I am not so sure. I remember reading multiple articles with direct quotes from Keaton himself. Not to mention that I have seen it on his official biography page somewhere.

Was there ever an article to debunk this?

I remember reading it, Jack was supposed to die in the first season but they changed their minds. NO idea if it was true but I know I read it.

How ironic was it that two main characters in Jack and Ben were supposed to be killed off after a short stint. These two characters turned out to be pivotal to the overall story and I can't imagine the show without either one.

I think that goes to show you there is a very thin line between good writing decisions and bad ones.

 

[Chaplin]

From IMDB.com

Originally, Michael Keaton was cast as Jack. In the first draft of the script Jack was to be killed by the monster after they arrived at the cockpit. ABC told the producers that they shouldn't kill off the hero so soon in the series and the script was changed. After the change, Michael Keaton backed out of the role since he did not want to commit to a regular series.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0411008/trivia

Do they mention that there were probably 10 drafts of that script? So it's not like it was a plan that everyone knew about. Hell, I doubt Matthew Fox knew that his character was originally to be killed until it was leaked on the internets.

 

[Pariah]

I don't remember where I read it, but I thought it was common knowledge (or, as the case may be, a commonly perpetuated myth). I'll obviously defer to Cheese's inside scoop on this one, though.

 

[Louis]

MTV: There was also talk that you were the initial choice to play Jack on "Lost." True?

Keaton: Yeah. J.J. [Abrams] called me and he said, "I know you don't want to do a television show but just hear me out." Here's what the idea was: He created this huge setup in the pilot episode with this guy who looks to be the lead or the hero. He has all those earmarks. And then all of a sudden he dies in the middle. I had to go think about it. And what happened was he went to [ABC] and said, "Here's how it works." And they said, "Nah." I think they read it and thought, "No, you've got to keep that guy alive." And then I was out of that.

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1579979/20080121/story.jhtml

 

[Gaddabout]

Cheese has recapped some of the sordid history of this show's pilot development. It's fair enough to say whatever was originally intended, the show became something entirely different by the time they got to shooting.

The idea came from then-ABC president Lloyd Braun, who was inspired after seeing Cast Away. He ordered a treatment based loosely on the idea of cast aways, and Cheese's boss was, IIRC, the first guy to really drive home the characters. I'm just repeating what's been reported, but Cheese please do correct me. As I understand it, Lieber wrote a pilot script exactly on Braun's specs -- this is to say he wrote a script about a bunch of cast aways that is said to have been more like Lord of the Flies. Braun didn't like it, didn't like the re-write, so he went after JJ Abrams. Legend has it that Abrams would only come on board if it had a supernatural angle, and so Lieber's characters were merged with Abram's penchant for the cosmic and we got Lost as we know it. Eventually.

So to say Jack wasn't originally supposed to be the main guy is like saying Neil Armstrong wasn't supposed to be the first guy to walk on the moon -- it's an unimportant detail in regard to actual history. The development of the show was like snowmelt down a hillside -- very, very fluid.

On an additional note, the green light on the $15 million two-hour pilot cost Braun his job, but for all of the credit all those other guys get for this show (minus Lieber, who is rightfully bitter, IMO), Braun is never mentioned, which I think is an injustice. Here's a guy who was at the top and made a decision based on art and not the bottom line, and ABC is much, much, much better for it.

 

[Pariah]

So to say Jack wasn't originally supposed to be the main guy is like saying Neil Armstrong wasn't supposed to be the first guy to walk on the moon -- it's an unimportant detail in regard to actual history.

In the big picture, yes. But the reason I brought it up is in reposnse the the claim that the first and final scenes were written at the same time. That doesn't jive if at the time Jack isn't thought to be the protagonist season after season.

 

[Gaddabout]

In the big picture, yes. But the reason I brought it up is in reposnse the the claim that the first and final scenes were written at the same time. That doesn't jive if at the time Jack isn't thought to be the protagonist season after season.

But it does. Jack's character was processed through the pilot development. They weren't even thinking about the story arc for many seasons -- or even one. They were focused on a compelling two-hour movie, more or less.

Once the pilot was given a thumbs up to shoot, Abrams, Cuse, and Lindeloff went to work on the show bible, which is where they came up with the ending. It's why when they went to the bargaining table at the end of the show contract, they were negotiating based on a season limit -- they had the ending of the show and they knew when they wanted to tell it.

My feeling is if Abrams had left it to Cuse and Lindeloff, the payoff might have been more rewarding, but that's just my speculation. I think those two guys are two of the most compelling people in TV. But I do appreciate Abrams' vision for the show and his ability to see an opportunity to tell a bigger story than what Braun originally started with.

 

[jefftheshark]

The idea came from then-ABC president Lloyd Braun.

On an additional note, the green light on the $15 million two-hour pilot cost Braun his job, but for all of the credit all those other guys get for this show (minus Lieber, who is rightfully bitter, IMO), Braun is never mentioned, which I think is an injustice.

Wasn't Lloyd Braun the guy who cost David Dinkins the mayorship of NYC when he suggested to Dinkins that he should ask that everyone in New York wear name tags?

JTS