Magic @ Suns Friday game thread 1-10-20

[1Sun]

I don’t care if Ayton is a disappointment or not. If They need to sit him down on the bench to make a point or get him on track then do it. The only thing that matters is doing whatever is necessay to develop him.

And again, what point are they making? That the other front court players can play worse than you, but we'll blame and humiliate you, anyway?

 

[Phrazbit]

I would rather you tell me what you reaction will be if/when James Jones makes a move like this. Will you come around and admit how harmful he is to the franchise, or will you just keep blindly supporting him because he is a Phienix Sun?

Please, go find posts of me heaping praise on James Jones.

 

[Folster]

And last year I was 100% right (in terms of the catastrophic effect of having no NBA level point guard...and BTW we have replaced that catastrophe with having no NBA level power forward). How about this year?...

You weren't exactly Nostradamus with that prediction.

 

[1Sun]

You weren't exactly Nostradamus with that prediction.

No, but Inexplicably there were several on this board who claimed Igor's system would make up for the fact that we didn't have an NBA point guard, or that Isaiah Canaan would make all the difference we need, or even that Shaq Harrison was a star in the making...

 

[Chris_Sanders]

If you want the Suns to move to Seattle or Vegas then go ahead and hand in your fan card right now. I don't see how anyone could support that. Do I want Sarver to sell? Of course but I draw the line at taking this franchise out of the city.

I don't care if we got an expansion team, it wouldn't be the Suns. It wouldn't have their history, good and bad. Part of being a fan is taking the good with the bad. Be down on the owner but to wish for them to leave? No, that makes no sense. Find a Sonics fan in Seattle and ask them how it feels. I guarantee you they won't talk about the brighter future ahead.

Knowing 1sun said that doesn't surprise me. He's not a fan anyway. I don't care what has been said about name calling. When a so called "fan" calls for the team to move out of the state they expose their true feelings, IMO. It was questionable he was a fan in the first place but that just seals it for me.

You know it is against the rules to post stuff like this. It is a blatant attack on another poster and his "fandom"

 

[JCSunsfan]

I did not get a chance to watch this whole game, but for the few minutes I was able to watch in the third quarter, the Suns were working very hard on defense. It was refreshing to watch. I do not mind a really gritty defensive win. It shows the team they can win even when their offense is off.

 

[JCSunsfan]

You know it is against the rules to post stuff like this. It is a blatant attack on another poster and his "fandom"

Chris, don't you think that when a fan calls for the team to move to another city, it is approaching the line?

 

[Mainstreet]

I think the comments by Hoop Head were totally fair when the poster talked moving the team to Las Vegas or Seattle.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I will stick to what I said, Ayton fits just fine on the Suns.

I understand that's your statement. I'm asking WHY you think that, especially on a night when he was literally yanked from the starting lineup.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I understand that's your statement. I'm asking WHY you think that, especially on a night when he was literally yanked from the starting lineup.

Ayton is our best shot at a future starting/potential all-star center. So, regardless of the fact that he is a disappointment as a #1 overall pick, what he is as a young player is quite valuable to us.

 

[1Sun]

Ayton is our best shot at a future starting/potential all-star center. So, regardless of the fact that he is a disappointment as a #1 overall pick, what he is as a young player is quite valuable to us.

To us as fans, yes. To management, apparently not so much...

 

[Mainstreet]

I understand that's your statement. I'm asking WHY you think that, especially on a night when he was literally yanked from the starting lineup.

Ayton was never projected to be an instant reward type player as compared to Luka. Most fans who studied the draft realized that and understand it would take Ayton longer to develop as it does most big men.

Those who want instant gratification have the wrong player. His scouting reports indicate that. Either accept it or get frustrated every game when he does not live up to your expectations.

Here is Ayton's scouting report if you missed it.

http://www.tankathon.com/players/deandre-ayton

 

[Superbone]

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[Zobaczcie suki]

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[Cheesebeef]

Ayton was never projected to be an instant reward type player as compared to Luka.

WTF does Luka have to do with this? You're now bringing in and projecting completely BS arguments on to the discussion of YOU think Ayton "fits in fine." Remember, that was what you said and I keep asking why/how you think that's happening, especially on a night where he got benched out of the starting lineup.

Most fans who studied the draft realized that and understand it would take Ayton longer to develop as it does most big men.

Those who want instant gratification have the wrong player.

And who's asking for "instant gratification? You're arguing against things that literally no one is saying in this thread. My expectation was that the kid would at least get better from Day 1 when he stepped on the court at U of A to entering his second year.

I want to see PROGRESS. So far, I've seen an immature kid come into the franchise, pretty much be the exact same player from Day 1 of his rookie year to the end of his rookie year, showing no progress there. Then, hoping to see him mature in Season 2, so far he totally screwed the team and got himself suspended for 1/4 of the season and in his comeback, we've seen a smidge of progress on D and regression on offense.

So, again, without you projecting arguments into others opinion, I will ask you again and this time:

WHY do you think Ayton's fitting in just fine as we continue to play ugly and sometimes embarrassing basketball? What is about him that you think is fine right now?

His scouting reports indicate that. Either accept it or get frustrated every game when he does not live up to your expectations.

Here is Ayton's scouting report if you missed it.

http://www.tankathon.com/players/deandre-ayton

I don't know why you just can't answer the WHY you think he's fitting in fine. Have you seen big steps forward Ayton as far as his maturity level in his second year? Do you see more fire in him on the court? Better offense? Better defense? And most of all, when talking about the progression of most highly touted big men, what have you seen so far this season that makes you think we're seeing the kind of progress most #1 big men take in their second year?

 

[BC867]

Ayton is our best shot at a future starting/potential all-star center. So, regardless of the fact that he is a disappointment as a #1 overall pick, what he is as a young player is quite valuable to us.

Are you putting individual stats ahead of whether a player fills a need with our team
and if he can be a difference maker in its quest to climb steadily in the standings and
become a strong playoff contender?

Yes, individual stats were JC's approach on a small-market team. But we are now a
mid-market team and it would be nice to set our sights higher. Even though the
bumbling Sarver has evidently set them lower.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Ayton is our best shot at a future starting/potential all-star center. So, regardless of the fact that he is a disappointment as a #1 overall pick, what he is as a young player is quite valuable to us.

that's fine... but it still doesn't answer my question. it talks about what he could be in the future, but doesn't speak to what he is right now, which is what Mainstreet has maintained is fitting in fine (without being able to say why he thinks that)>

 

[JCSunsfan]

that's fine... but it still doesn't answer my question. it talks about what he could be in the future, but doesn't speak to what he is right now, which is what Mainstreet has maintained is fitting in fine (without being able to say why he thinks that)>

He is becoming more of a defense presence all the time. He is presently our top big man defender. Yes, he is more effective than Baynes although Baynes does a better job of directing the defense. He is our best rebounder by far and we really need that presence. He is doing better switching off recently--much better than last year.

His offense has regressed. I think that is why he is not starting. Monty wants Ayton to dive to the rim on the pick and roll. Ayton sets half-hearted picks and then hangs around the free-throw line. You hear Monty yelling "dive!" throughout the game. At some point the only thing you can do is sit a player down if he won't do what you ask.

I don't know if he is hard of hearing, just hard-headed, or in some sort of la la land on offense.

I heard someone say recently that big guys have been instructed to take it easy and not hurt other players from the time they were in elementary school. After all, they usually have adult sized bodies in upper elementary school. Not sure if that is it.

I have seen enough of him to think that his problem is not so much lack of aggressiveness but rather confusion or bad habits or instinct kicking in. Just my observation though.

 

[1Sun]

He is becoming more of a defense presence all the time. He is presently our top big man defender. Yes, he is more effective than Baynes although Baynes does a better job of directing the defense. He is our best rebounder by far and we really need that presence. He is doing better switching off recently--much better than last year.

His offense has regressed. I think that is why he is not starting. Monty wants Ayton to dive to the rim on the pick and roll. Ayton sets half-hearted picks and then hangs around the free-throw line. You hear Monty yelling "dive!" throughout the game. At some point the only thing you can do is sit a player down if he won't do what you ask.

I don't know if he is hard of hearing, just hard-headed, or in some sort of la la land on offense.

I heard someone say recently that big guys have been instructed to take it easy and not hurt other players from the time they were in elementary school. After all, they usually have adult sized bodies in upper elementary school. Not sure if that is it.

I have seen enough of him to think that his problem is not so much lack of aggressiveness but rather confusion or bad habits or instinct kicking in. Just my observation though.

This was the only game we saw Monty visibly frustrated with Ayton during a game. While Ayton has had his hiccups, he has been largely coachable, and Monty has had nothing but glowing things to say about Ayton's development and willingness to listen and learn.

Perhaps last night was more of a reaction on Ayton's part than what prior to yesterday's events was the norm...

 

[Hoop Head]

You know it is against the rules to post stuff like this. It is a blatant attack on another poster and his "fandom"

I feel that you're attacking my "fandom" when you say I can't stand up for keeping the Suns in Phoenix and question what sort of fan would want to see their team relocated across the country.

Nice of you to make a cameo here in a game thread, what is this, the third or fourth you've been in this season?


Edit: I'm not questioning your fandom, I'm genuinely curious why you aren't in more game threads as the mod on this board.

 

[Sunburn]

This was the only game we saw Monty visibly frustrated with Ayton during a game. While Ayton has had his hiccups, he has been largely coachable, and Monty has had nothing but glowing things to say about Ayton's development and willingness to listen and learn.

Perhaps last night was more of a reaction on Ayton's part than what prior to yesterday's events was the norm...

It's clear Monty wants Ayton to dive off screens, but Ayton doesn't do it. We need Ayton to play, but I have no problem with a coach benching a player for not even attempting to do what he is instructed. A coach is not just entitled, but is absolutely required, to be able to enforce his instructions to maintain control over the team.

 

[JCSunsfan]

It's clear Monty wants Ayton to dive off screens, but Ayton doesn't do it. We need Ayton to play, but I have no problem with a coach benching a player for not even attempting to do what he is instructed. A coach is not just entitled, but is absolutely required, to be able to enforce his instructions to maintain control over the team.

Yep. And if there is ever a time to do it in Ayton's career, it is right now. We have Baynes who can start in a pinch. We are not contending. We have control of his career for years ahead. Now is the time to hold him accountable.

 

[1Sun]

Yep. And if there is ever a time to do it in Ayton's career, it is right now. We have Baynes who can start in a pinch. We are not contending. We have control of his career for years ahead. Now is the time to hold him accountable.

Only if we similarly hold Baynes and Saric accountable. Both of them were far more culpable in not following the game plan in the two previous games, so singling out Ayton there does nothing but breed resentment, as we plainly saw last night.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

His offense has regressed. I think that is why he is not starting. Monty wants Ayton to dive to the rim on the pick and roll. Ayton sets half-hearted picks and then hangs around the free-throw line. You hear Monty yelling "dive!" throughout the game. At some point the only thing you can do is sit a player down if he won't do what you ask.

I don't know if he is hard of hearing, just hard-headed, or in some sort of la la land on offense.

I heard someone say recently that big guys have been instructed to take it easy and not hurt other players from the time they were in elementary school. After all, they usually have adult sized bodies in upper elementary school. Not sure if that is it.

I have seen enough of him to think that his problem is not so much lack of aggressiveness but rather confusion or bad habits or instinct kicking in. Just my observation though.

Cant’t really see/hear the Monty stuff on tv. But if he’s yelling “dive” at Ayton all the time surely he’s instructing him to do so in practice, before the game, during timeouts, and halftime too. Raising the “maybe he’s hard of hearing” is just a laughable attempt to find reason to deflect blame.

I also just laugh at the “it’s been coached outta him his whole life” apology. Never have I heard or seen this. I have an 8 and a 9 year old. They’re big boys. Both I and their coaches would never utter that silliness. Growing up playing sports - in all sports - again I never heard such silliness. Not to mention, why did this only apparently hold Ayton back and not all the other bigs who come into the league aggressive and physical? I mean . . . honestly . . . wow . . . I just can’t . . .

and while he might be confused, there’s just no confusing montys comments that he wants him to play bully ball. He’s getting the instruction. To be averaging less than a FT/game is just plain lack of aggressiveness. You just can’t paint lipstick on that pig.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It's clear Monty wants Ayton to dive off screens, but Ayton doesn't do it. We need Ayton to play, but I have no problem with a coach benching a player for not even attempting to do what he is instructed. A coach is not just entitled, but is absolutely required, to be able to enforce his instructions to maintain control over the team.

Agreed. And I think it makes it clear who is not buying in or doing what he’s supposed to do.