Manning Situation Could Vindicate Cardinals

[Duckjake]

Knowing almost zero about how contracts work, couldn't they sign PM to, say, a 5 year deal with a large signing bonus with smaller salaries up front, making his cap hit smaller? Then we would have more wiggle room for other contracts, right?

I just don't see the Bidwills coming up with the upfront money that would be required to pay a Manning size signing bonus. The Cards will pay big money for players they just don't seem to like to pay big chunks of it up front and want more in salaries they can pay out over time.

What did they give Fitz $15-17 million? Kolb got $10 million.

Levi Brown will count $18+million against the cap this year!

 

[daves]

They're basically guaranteeing sellouts for as long as he's here plus you have to figure additional revenue for about 3-10 playoff games over a 3-4 year period.

Wow, that's some optimism! The Colts had 4 home playoff games over the last 4 years Manning played, and 10 since 1998 when Manning first led the Colts to the playoffs. It's impossible to have more than 2 home playoff games in a season!

...dave

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Fitz rec'd $17M in bonus.

$15.250M to be paid in 2012.

CAP hit - 2012: $20.250M

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Wow, that's some optimism! The Colts had 4 home playoff games over the last 4 years Manning played, and 10 since 1998 when Manning first led the Colts to the playoffs. It's impossible to have more than 2 home playoff games in a season!

...dave

I didn't say home playoff games. Teams get revenue from playing road playoff games too. Plus the obvious SB payday if they get him .

 

[Buckybird]

I just don't see the Bidwills coming up with the upfront money that would be required to pay a Manning size signing bonus. The Cards will pay big money for players they just don't seem to like to pay big chunks of it up front and want more in salaries they can pay out over time.

What did they give Fitz $15-17 million? Kolb got $10 million.

Levi Brown will count $18+million against the cap this year!

I agree Duck.

People here think Manning is going to sign for chump change because he's hurt. Can we really expect Mr B to do that on a pure gamble on a 36 yrd QB, who's future is uncertain? I don't think so. Business is still business!!!

 

[TJ]

I agree Duck.

People here think Manning is going to sign for chump change because he's hurt. Can we really expect Mr B to do that on a pure gamble on a 36 yrd QB, who's future is uncertain? I don't think so.

Use whatever Tom Brady's baseline salary is as a benchmark for what the team would need to sign Manning.

Before you fall for the notion that signing Manning is going to be a slam dunk, take into consideration:

1. The amount of $$$ it's going to take to sign him.
2. The number of teams that will be interested in his services (which will largely affect item #1). I would put that number at around 12-15.
3. His health. Even though he is cleared to play, he still has lingering effects from the surgery (including nerves that have not completely regenerated), which can hinder Manning's ability to be ....well....Manning
4. The amount of $$$ already invested in Kolb. You may not like this, but the team gave up a ton to get this guy and is still in the midst of developing and assimilating into the system. This notion could, IMO, limit the motivation to sign Manning. JMHO, but I don't think the team has given up on Kolb at all. The only reason it would sign Manning is if he is healthy and can play at an elite level that everyone is used to seeing from him, which is better than almost every QB in the league.

 

[Catfish]

I am of the belief that signing Manning to a Cardinal deal makes all the sense in the world, (and dollars too). He has already been cleared medically to play. Even if his arm strength is not the same as before, having him in Red and White would take the Cards to an entire new level.

1. Guaranteed stadium sellouts for as long as Peyton is with the team.

2. A whole new gathering of Cardinals fans world-wide to generate merchandise sales
like never before for the Bidwills.

3. A genuine chance at a return to the SB, (with the timing of the next appearance of
the SB in UPS matching almost perfectly with a realistic Cards chance to be one of
the contending teams).

Any way I look at this, it shouts to me to go all-in for it by the Bidwills. Even if the SB title does not materialize, the potential dollars harvest seems to make sense to me.

 

[Buckybird]

Use whatever Tom Brady's baseline salary is as a benchmark for what the team would need to sign Manning.

Before you fall for the notion that signing Manning is going to be a slam dunk, take into consideration:

1. The amount of $$$ it's going to take to sign him.
2. The number of teams that will be interested in his services (which will largely affect item #1). I would put that number at around 12-15.
3. His health. Even though he is cleared to play, he still has lingering effects from the surgery (including nerves that have not completely regenerated), which can hinder Manning's ability to be ....well....Manning
4. The amount of $$$ already invested in Kolb. You may not like this, but the team gave up a ton to get this guy and is still in the midst of developing and assimilating into the system. This notion could, IMO, limit the motivation to sign Manning. JMHO, but I don't think the team has given up on Kolb at all. The only reason it would sign Manning is if he is healthy and can play at an elite level that everyone is used to seeing from him, which is better than almost every QB in the league.

all of the reasons you stated TJ is why Manning won't be wearing a Big Red uniform in 2012 & I've pretty much stated the same things to keep all here from going postal on Bill Bidwill when it doesn't happen

 

[Crazy Canuck]

all of the reasons you stated TJ is why Manning won't be wearing a Big Red uniform in 2012 & I've pretty much stated the same things to keep all here from going postal on Bill Bidwill when it doesn't happen

... not "why"... but, "could be why"...

 

[TJ]

1. Guaranteed stadium sellouts for as long as Payton is with the team.

The team has sold out every game it has played at UofP; preseason, reg season, and post season.

2. A whole new gathering of Cardinals fans world-wide to generate merchandise sales
like never before for the Bidwills.

You're probably right

3. A genuine chance at a return to the SB, (with the timing of the next appearance of
the SB in UPS matching almost perfectly with a realistic Cards chance to be one of
the contending teams).

But if as you mentioned earlier, he is not at 100%, this is not a "genuine" chance. As Jason Whitlock eloquently put it, "Peyton Manning has been medically cleared to collect a $28 million bonus on March 8th." With the medical clearance came the caveat about his limited arm strength. You cannot assume that he will play at an elite level given his age, the # of operations on his neck, and lingering affects from said operations. In addition to which, Manning was cleared by his doctors; not any team's doctors. This medical clearance was to be expected, but still leaves much ambiguity surrounding the situation.

The Cards should certainly look into signing Manning, but the team needs to be smart in its pursuit. First, Manning has to be at or very close to 100%. Second, how long can he realistically play for? One thing's for sure, he is not the long-term answer, but rather, another patch of duct tape on the leaky pipe that is historical QB futility on this team. If he can play and produce for 3 or more seasons, then it might be worth the risk. Third, the team cannot cut Kolb until Manning is signed. If for some reason the team cuts Kolb and Manning signs elsewhere, the team now has depth issues at QB.

 

[Buckybird]

The team has sold out every game it has played at UofP; preseason, reg season, and post season.

You're probably right
But if as you mentioned earlier, he is not at 100%, this is not a "genuine" chance. As Jason Whitlock eloquently put it, "Peyton Manning has been medically cleared to collect a $28 million bonus on March 8th." With the medical clearance came the caveat about his limited arm strength. You cannot assume that he will play at an elite level given his age, the # of operations on his neck, and lingering affects from said operations. In addition to which, Manning was cleared by his doctors; not any team's doctors. This medical clearance was to be expected, but still leaves much ambiguity surrounding the situation.

The Cards should certainly look into signing Manning, but the team needs to be smart in its pursuit. First, Manning has to be at or very close to 100%. Second, how long can he realistically play for? One thing's for sure, he is not the long-term answer, but rather, another patch of duct tape on the leaky pipe that is historical QB futility on this team. If he can play and produce for 3 or more seasons, then it might be worth the risk. Third, the team cannot cut Kolb until Manning is signed. If for some reason the team cuts Kolb and Manning signs elsewhere, the team now has depth issues at QB.

I agree...

It's sooo much easier for fans to say "sign Peyton Manning" when it's not their money!!! It's a huge gamble at this point & possibly even come July or even August. Until Manning shows he can be an NFL QB & play NFL football at a high level again I'm very cautious about shelling out dough to him!!!

 

[AntSports Steve]

To the posters who say Manning will end up paying for himself :

The Cards already sell out all of their games. They could change the stadium seat setup to match the setup for the Festia Bowl and they could raise ticket prices, so there is potential to gain some cash by signing Manning.

All NFL Merchandise sales including any new Manning Cards gear, goes to the the entire NFL and is divided by all 32 teams, so the Cards will not gain any extra cash for merchandise.

So, just because you sign him does not mean the team instantly gets more money, but it would sure make for some fun football. I am just not sure the team will assume the risk of him not having enought arm strength.

So to make it easy on the Cards, before Kolbs bonus is due, he need to be near 100% arm strength.

 

[Reddog]

Levi Brown will count $18+million against the cap this year!

I wonder if Manning would provide Levi a face saving reason to restructure for the good of bringing him to AZ. He has to know no one will pay him the bonus he is due this year from the Cards, so if he likes it here this may be a great way for everyone to do a reasonable deal for a Right Tackle.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I wonder if Manning would provide Levi a face saving reason to restructure for the good of bringing him to AZ. He has to know no one will pay him the bonus he is due this year from the Cards, so if he likes it here this may be a great way for everyone to do a reasonable deal for a Right Tackle.

Well, it's re-structure or get cut.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

To the posters who say Manning will end up paying for himself :

The Cards already sell out all of their games. They could change the stadium seat setup to match the setup for the Festia Bowl and they could raise ticket prices, so there is potential to gain some cash by signing Manning.

All NFL Merchandise sales including any new Manning Cards gear, goes to the the entire NFL and is divided by all 32 teams, so the Cards will not gain any extra cash for merchandise.

So, just because you sign him does not mean the team instantly gets more money, but it would sure make for some fun football. I am just not sure the team will assume the risk of him not having enought arm strength.

So to make it easy on the Cards, before Kolbs bonus is due, he need to be near 100% arm strength.

The breakdown:

The bulk of the league's revenue - approximately $4 billion in 2011 - comes from broadcast deals with NBC, CBS, Fox, ESPN and DirecTV. That income is shared equally among all teams. Income from licensing deals - everything from jerseys to posters to team-logo beer coolers - is also shared evenly.

Ticket revenue is split using a slightly different formula: the home team keeps 60 percent of "the gate" for each game, while the visiting team gets 40 percent.

Under the previous agreement, $2 out of every $5 earned from seat sales was put into a pool used to settle stadium debts, with whatever was left over going to small market clubs. Now, revenue sharing will involve a 10 percent tax on the local revenues of any clubs that qualify as big-market, with that money going to clubs that qualify as small-market.

Other sources of revenue - things like the sale of luxury boxes, stadium concessions and the like - are not shared, which does give teams in bigger markets or with state-of-the-art arenas a significant edge in profitability. The new CBA attempts to remedy that in two ways. First, the league will set aside a percentage of revenue in a stadium fund, which will be used to match teams' investments in their facilities. Second, there will be an additional "luxury tax" levied on high-revenue teams, with the receipts set to be distributed to the lower-revenue clubs.

 

[WildBB]

Agree with the gist, Mitch, but I believe Plan B is Kolb.

Chances are that Manning will be released before the Combine and the Cards will have plenty of time to digest this new venture.

If it makes sense, then I can imagine a decision not to pay Kolb his $7M bonus in March and promote Skelton as the interim as they await Peyton's return.

If it can't be worked out with Condon, then IMO they stick with Kolb for 2012.

This.

 

[Phrazbit]

To the posters who say Manning will end up paying for himself :

The Cards already sell out all of their games. They could change the stadium seat setup to match the setup for the Festia Bowl and they could raise ticket prices, so there is potential to gain some cash by signing Manning.

All NFL Merchandise sales including any new Manning Cards gear, goes to the the entire NFL and is divided by all 32 teams, so the Cards will not gain any extra cash for merchandise.

So, just because you sign him does not mean the team instantly gets more money, but it would sure make for some fun football. I am just not sure the team will assume the risk of him not having enought arm strength.

So to make it easy on the Cards, before Kolbs bonus is due, he need to be near 100% arm strength.

The Cards have not been having true "sellouts" the last 2 years. The team occasionally buys up a chunk of their own tickets to ensure the local games are televised.

I absolutely think that if Manning makes 15-20 million per year that his contract will pay for itself (and the subtraction of Kolb) through increased revenue.

 

[WarnerHOF]

Chansi Stuckey is set to make $2M? . That may almost be as bad as Bradley getting $25-30 mill. Geez, there are some bad contracts out there.

Wow, did we even see the guy once last season aside from that fumble against the Redskins? I forgot he was even on the roster.

 

[Phrazbit]

I agree...

It's sooo much easier for fans to say "sign Peyton Manning" when it's not their money!!! It's a huge gamble at this point & possibly even come July or even August. Until Manning shows he can be an NFL QB & play NFL football at a high level again I'm very cautious about shelling out dough to him!!!

I honestly dont see how its a "huge gamble". A large portion of attaining Manning is accounted for just by releasing Kolb. So, would a wise GM pay roughly 5-8 million to potential have MVP caliber play at the QB spot, at the expense of Kolb, whom also may not be able to play and is of a talent level certainly not MVP caliber and may not even be starting caliber...

I think a case can be made that continuing forward with our current QB situation is a larger gamble than signing Manning. Manning gives them a chance to succeed at an elite level, and at worst the Cards are where they were last year, minus 5 million in salary... but likely plus several million more in revenue.

Kolb was a gamble. Manning is prudence.

Arguments about whether or not the Cards will be able to landing Manning while bidding against the Jets, Dolphins, Redskins and others I think are worth having. But with the Cards troubles at QB the last 2 years to question the worth of signing an MVP caliber talent is rather odd.

 

[Reddog]

Well, it's re-structure or get cut.

Sure but ego and pressure from other players usually has these guys thinking they are worth more than they are and they end up shopping and signing somewhere else for that reasonable contract that the Cards would likely have exceeded. I think the Cards really value him but they don't $18M stupid value him.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Sure but ego and pressure from other players usually has these guys thinking they are worth more than they are and they end up shopping and signing somewhere else for that reasonable contract that the Cards would likely have exceeded. I think the Cards really value him but they don't $18M stupid value him.

You're right and we need the $18M for you know who...

 

[Reddog]

You're right and we need the $18M for you know who...

Deuce Lutui?

 

[Vermont Maverick]

Subtracting a bit of dead money, dropping Kolb would add about $8M to the 2012 CAP and cutting Stuckey would add an additional $2M.

I'm guessing (not exactly sure) that there is some additional cap hit for dumping Kolb. I don't know the exact structure, but if we paid Kolb a bonus when we signed him, and it wasn't just a salary increase for last year, then there would be some hit.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I'm guessing (not exactly sure) that there is some additional cap hit for dumping Kolb. I don't know the exact structure, but if we paid Kolb a bonus when we signed him, and it wasn't just a salary increase for last year, then there would be some hit.

I calculate an $8M saving.

2012 CAP hit: $10M

(1M-salary - 7M-roster bonus - 2M from prorated signing bonus)

Cards save the salary and roster bonus: $8M