Marcin Gortat

[jagu]

Hey jagu, it's a good thing no one on this board blasted the Polish Hammer since he arrived last season, huh. No one except almost everyone except the two of us. It is nice to know that our gut feelings were right on.

Gortat with 24 points and 12 boards vs. the Celtics, which led both teams in those categories. The top Celtic scorer had 14 points and their top rebounder had 6. Star of the game.

Hey, yea I loved the move since the day it was made. I was a huge J-Rich fan but Gortat is a legit C that's hard to find. I think many others were on board too when this move was made except slinslin who argued that he wasn't anything great. I don't know if he's since changed his mind but its clear Gortat is one of the better centers in the league.

I do think the Suns should find another guard with good pick and roll passing ability because Gortat excels with the P&R like Amare. Once Nash leaves, we don't want to see Gortat regress offensively.

 

[sunsfan88]

Yea man everyone liked Gortat it was only slinslin who didn't like him but that poor fellow is from Germany so I doubt he knows a lot about basketball.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yea man everyone liked Gortat it was only slinslin who didn't like him but that poor fellow is from Germany so I doubt he knows a lot about basketball.

I take it you are joking.

Slinslin seems to know quite a lot about basketball, however for some reason, always wants to move Gortat.

 

[jagu]

Gortat for Dwight Howard... oh wait.. NAAAH!!!


Gortat is God!!

 

[jagu]

A lot of teams will be inquiring about Gortat this deadline. Let's hope that clown Sarvar doesn't sell him off.

 

[slinslin]

I take it you are joking.

Slinslin seems to know quite a lot about basketball, however for some reason, always wants to move Gortat.

Because I understand that

a) Gortats trade value will never be higher than right now
b) Gortat is not good enough to build around
c) even if assumption b) was wrong Gortat is too old to start building around
d) Gortat will ask for a lot of money after next season that a rebuilding team should never give to a basically 30 year old center at that point

 

[Covert Rain]

Because I understand that

a) Gortats trade value will never be higher than right now
b) Gortat is not good enough to build around
c) even if assumption b) was wrong Gortat is too old to start building around
d) Gortat will ask for a lot of money after next season that a rebuilding team should never give to a basically 30 year old center at that point

a) Not true. He is proving you wrong that he can't get better and his trade value will get higher.

b) This doesn't make sense. You build a team by acquiring pieces. You don't just trade guys and get rid of them because you don't have a franchise player yet.

c) What do you mean EVEN IF?!?!? LOL. You can't say it can you? Who said you need to build around Gortat. He is a center in his prime that you need and centers in this league are hard to come by.

d) Gortat will still be in his prime at 30. You absolutely pay a legit center because they are hard to come by in this league. Only a handful of teams have one and the Suns are finally on that list.

 

[slinslin]

Way more than a handful of teams have a legit center.

Howard, Hibbert, Bynum, Gasol, Cousins, Monroe, Bogut, Hawes, Jordan, Chandler, Noah, Dalembert I could probably name more legit centers that are right up there in the conversation.

And no Gortats value will not increase. He is a FA in 2013 which will cost him the status of being underpaid and he is approaching 30 years old and will face a huge challenge once he has to play without Steve Nash.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Way more than a handful of teams have a legit center.

Howard, Hibbert, Bynum, Gasol, Cousins, Monroe, Bogut, Hawes, Jordan, Chandler, Noah, Dalembert I could probably name more legit centers that are right up there in the conversation.

And no Gortats value will not increase. He is a FA in 2013 which will cost him the status of being underpaid and he is approaching 30 years old and will face a huge challenge once he has to play without Steve Nash.

Its increasing by the day.

 

[Covert Rain]

Way more than a handful of teams have a legit center.

Howard, Hibbert, Bynum, Gasol, Cousins, Monroe, Bogut, Hawes, Jordan, Chandler, Noah, Dalembert I could probably name more legit centers that are right up there in the conversation.

And no Gortats value will not increase. He is a FA in 2013 which will cost him the status of being underpaid and he is approaching 30 years old and will face a huge challenge once he has to play without Steve Nash.

I would say that probably a third or less have a legit center which means the MAJORITY of teams do not. In fact, I could debate your initial list as being legit and I could probably tear down your more detailed list as well. So, I will stick to my "handful" comment. Centers don't grow on trees. If they did, the Suns wouldn't have such a rich history of looking for one and wasting a ton of picks and worthless trades over the years trying to get one.

Oh slinslin....you kill me. Ofcourse his value will increase. His value will be higher if he proves to more of the league he can continue to play at a high level for extended period of time. There are lots of GM's out there watching the guy in his first full season at a starter. It has been talked about in the press all season long and in the last national game they even mentioned that Gortat is being talked about by many GM's in the league. Statistically he has moved the Suns into the top tier in many center categories from a team perspective.

Also, are you watching the games? Yes he is getting assists from Nash but Gortat clearly is getting his own shots this season. 60% of Gortats shots are jump shots this season which is up 10% from last season. He is taking the ball to the rim and backing guys down more. Also, he is a legit big body who can rebound which most good teams value as a huge asset. If you don't think for one second teams will be lined up to sign the guy your crazy. Also, your Nash comment holds no water. If you look at some of the guys who have left the Suns over the years they went on to score plenty of points without Nash on other teams. Also, nobody is looking for Gortat to be the next Howard or Duncan. Nobody expects him to do that so your point is moot.

The only way Gortat gets "underpaid" is if he agrees to stay with the Suns and takes a smaller contract to do so. If this guy hits the open market he will get his money. Count on it.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Way more than a handful of teams have a legit center.

Howard, Hibbert, Bynum, Gasol, Cousins, Monroe, Bogut, Hawes, Jordan, Chandler, Noah, Dalembert I could probably name more legit centers that are right up there in the conversation.

And no Gortats value will not increase. He is a FA in 2013 which will cost him the status of being underpaid and he is approaching 30 years old and will face a huge challenge once he has to play without Steve Nash.

I was already struggling when I saw Cousins name on your list but my brain started smoking when I ran into Hawes. Surely you jest. Hawes??? You call him a legit center all the while denigrating Gortat as a player? Take a credibility pill and call us in the morning.

Steve

 

[Covert Rain]

I was already struggling when I saw Cousins name on your list but my brain started smoking when I ran into Hawes. Surely you jest. Hawes??? You call him a legit center all the while denigrating Gortat as a player? Take a credibility pill and call us in the morning.

Steve

+1

 

[JCSunsfan]

http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2012/01/the-most-marcin-gortat-marcin-gortat-piece-ever-written/

Even if he did regress to his normal percentage on those shots, he’d narrowly miss career highs in FG% and TS%, and he’d likely still be on track for a career-high in points per game and per-36 minutes. Coupled with his improved and for the most part extremely impressive defense, you’re talking about a guy who needs to be considered a top ten center right now, with an outside case to jump into the top five.

 

[slinslin]

I was already struggling when I saw Cousins name on your list but my brain started smoking when I ran into Hawes. Surely you jest. Hawes??? You call him a legit center all the while denigrating Gortat as a player? Take a credibility pill and call us in the morning.

Steve

LOL!

Hawes plays on the currently best defensive team and one of the overall top teams in the league and averages ~11/9/3/2 58.8%FG in 26mpg.

How is he any less legit than Gortat? He outplayed Gortat head to head as well in Phoenix.

 

[AzStevenCal]

LOL!

Hawes plays on the currently best defensive team and one of the overall top teams in the league and averages ~11/9/3/2 58.8%FG in 26mpg.

How is he any less legit than Gortat? He outplayed Gortat head to head as well in Phoenix.

Are you just trying to be a jerk? He's played in 12 games this year, last year he averaged 7 points over the whole season. BTW, the jerk part is the label you earn when you round 10.4 up to 11 and then follow it up by rounding 26.9 down to 26.

Steve

 

[slinslin]

Yeah because Gortat has proven jack before he played on a bad Suns team with one of the greatest PGs of all time feeding him the ball on the vast majority of his points?

You said there were only a handful of team with legit centers in the league, which is plain wrong. Gortat is in the discussion with about a dozen other center for maybe the #4 center in the league discussion (Howard, Hibbert and Gasol being the top 3).

 

[Covert Rain]

Yeah because Gortat has proven jack before he played on a bad Suns team with one of the greatest PGs of all time feeding him the ball on the vast majority of his points?

You said there were only a handful of team with legit centers in the league, which is plain wrong. Gortat is in the discussion with about a dozen other center for maybe the #4 center in the league discussion (Howard, Hibbert and Gasol being the top 3).

slinsslin that argument holds no water. People said the same thing about Amare when he first left. He still managed. Nash makes it easier for guys to score but those guys still have to put the ball in the bucket. Gortat still has to make the shots. He is shooting 60% of his shots as jump shots (not layups or dunks).

You can split hairs all you want. The fact that Gortat is even in the discussion around the league for being top 5 to top 10 center says it all. The fact that GM's and coaches around the league are recognizing him says much more to me versus your opinion.

Your bias kills any credibility you have.

P.S. Your boy Hawes is assisted on nearly just as many of his shots (3% less).

 

[Mainstreet]

Speaking of centers, the Suns have until Wednesday to extend Robin Lopez which appears unlikely. He will be a RFA after the season. I was hoping the Suns might find a trade for him for something.... anything.... instead of letting him walk for nothing. I can't see the Suns matching any offer for Lopez.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/sun...oenix-suns-robin-lopez-value-open-market.html

 

[Covert Rain]

Speaking of centers, the Suns have until Wednesday to extend Robin Lopez which appears unlikely. He will be a RFA after the season. I was hoping the Suns might find a trade for him for something.... anything.... instead of letting him walk for nothing. I can't see the Suns matching any offer for Lopez.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/sun...oenix-suns-robin-lopez-value-open-market.html

I think your right and I can't see them doing it either. The guy is replaceable and it seems like every trade scenario the Suns were trying to negotiate the past couple seasons involved Robin and none of those came to pass.

That says it all there. No teams are willing to give up anything for the guy.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Yeah because Gortat has proven jack before he played on a bad Suns team with one of the greatest PGs of all time feeding him the ball on the vast majority of his points?

I don't know why I feed into your stupidity re: Gortat, but here's even more evidence that you're being a fool. Nash benefits from Gortat just as much as Gortat does from Nash:

http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2012/01/the-most-marcin-gortat-marcin-gortat-piece-ever-written/

 

[Mainstreet]

I think your right and I can't see them doing it either. The guy is replaceable and it seems like every trade scenario the Suns were trying to negotiate the past couple seasons involved Robin and none of those came to pass.

That says it all there. No teams are willing to give up anything for the guy.

This only goes to prove that the Suns during the Sarver regime, they can't draft even when they do keep their picks. When Morris has an off game I cringe.

 

[slinslin]

3 yrs 10M$ would be fair for Lopez but obviously there is no point accepting that because he might get more in the FA market.

 

[jbeecham]

This only goes to prove that the Suns during the Sarver regime, they can't draft even when they do keep their picks. When Morris has an off game I cringe.

Morris has really struggled offensively since being put in the starting lineup. He is still putting up solid rebounding numbers when he isn't immediately called for multiple ticky-tack fouls because he's a rookie.

I know Frye hasn't been playing any better so we don't have a ton of options. Probably the biggest challenge for Morris is that he's on the scouting report now & teams don't give him open looks at 3's anymore. He doesn't have a strong post game yet & doesn't finish well around the rim. Occasionally he'll fly in for a follow dunk off a missed shot, but it seems like he needs some momentum to elevate high enough to get above the rim.

 

[slinslin]

The more interesting question would be if the Suns are capable of teaching Morris how to play in the post.

Seems to me the Suns have failed in that regard with everyone , trying to turn every big in a shooter / pick and roll specialist.

 

[slinslin]

I don't know why I feed into your stupidity re: Gortat, but here's even more evidence that you're being a fool. Nash benefits from Gortat just as much as Gortat does from Nash:

http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2012/01/the-most-marcin-gortat-marcin-gortat-piece-ever-written/

What a surprise, Nash is most effective when playing with someone that can execute the pick and roll?
Thing is finding the Gortat in the pick and roll is much easier than finding Steve Nash.

Swap Gortat for Bogut for instance and you will see that Gortats numbers fall off, Boguts go up and Nash stays pretty much the same.

That arcticle is also deceiving the reader

Of course, Gortat is not solely a pick-and-roll threat. He’s been a beast in the post this year as well. He’s at 34th in the league in PPP in on post-ups so far this season, a number that places him in the top 7.5% of all players. Post-ups are far and away his second most used play, and together with pick-and-rolls they account for 60.4% of his possessions. Combined on these two plays, he is averaging 1.11 PPP, which would easily place him in the top 25 in the NBA.

That makes it sound like Gortat posts up a lot but truth is among the top centers he is posting up FAR less than anyone other and scores his points off of PNR 5 times as often as the next center.