Marion, JJ, Jake and #7 for TMac

[slinslin]

*The Phoenix Suns are rumored to be offering forward Shawn Marion, swingman Joe Johnson, center Jake Voskuhl and their first-round draft pick to the Orlando Magic for guard Tracy McGrady.*

That's was in the Chicago Suntimes.

Depending on what we can do to unload White or Eisley in the expansion draft, what out pick turns out to be in the lottery...
I might do that especially if we have the chance to sign Kobe still.
Maybe we could get the Magic's pair of early second round picks too.

 

[elindholm]

That price is too high. The Suns would have no one at center and no third option on offense.

 

[slinslin]

Lampe and McDyess would be left at center. Possibly Jahidi White too.
And cash would still be there to spend.

Voshkul was out with plantar fascilitis. That's the same foot injury that kept Grant Hill out I think.

I agree however.
Marion, Jacobsen, Voshkul, top7 pick for TMac looks a lot more realistic to me. Or maybe they could swap Juwan Howard for Howard Eisley or something like that.

What I take from those outside of Phoenix articles is that Phoenix quite possibly is the most likely destination for TMac should he be traded.

 

[sunsfn]

I really hope the suns do not do that!!

That is too high of a price to play for McGrady!

I believe the suns will think that the 1st round pick is a valuable pick, even if they do not get one of the top three. If they get the 7th pick that should be a very good player and a chance to be an all star some day.
If they give their top pick and Marion, I can understand that, but do not include JJ.

 

[elindholm]

I do think it's fairly likely that McGrady will come to Phoenix. In fact, I estimate the probability to be about 30%.

Saying that there would still be Lampe and McDyess at center is, uh, not exactly comforting. One will be 20 (?) years old and the other is an injury-prone PF who would be playing out of position.

If the FA money could be used to bring a real center -- not that I'm sure who that would be -- then things would look a lot better.

Even though Juwan Howard's contract goes on forever, I'd be happy to have him on the Suns. I'd even consider the draft pick for Howard straight up, if the Magic really don't want him. If the trade is something like Marion, Johnson, Eisley and the pick for McGrady and Howard, that would be fine.

I would prefer to keep Voskuhl. Since his contract is so cheap, the risk of long-term injury is not a big deal, and I do think he helps the team when he is healthy.

 

[Ryanwb]

I don't like it either....

I just hope the Suns don't go into panic mode if they don't get Kobe or T-mac and throw wheel barrels of cash at Marcus Camby....who averages 50 games a year

 

[scotsman13]

if it includes jj and marion it is to much. and that isnt even with the draft pick or jake. tmac has a bad back and i personally dont think that he will take the backsit to amare.

and slin before you come at me with tmac and kobe wouldnt take a backsit to amare think of this. in his second season in the nba he went to the strip over 10 times a game more then tmac and i think .2 less then kobe. this was with him sitting down a big part of the season and not getting the ball as much went marbury was here. guess what guys? we already have a superstar here and his name is amare. he just needs a little time for the rest of his game to come around.

 

[hcsilla]

Juwan Howard is OK. Adding him and Eisley would sweeten the deal for the Suns.

 

[sunsfn]

Juwan Howard
05- $5,408,700
06- $5,900,400
07- $6,392,100
08- $6,883,800
09- $7,375,500

I do not want the suns to commit to Howard until 2007 with this salary, and I do not think the suns will do it.

It seems to me that a year or two of McDyess would be better than this much money for Howard.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

? we already have a superstar here and his name is amare. he just needs a little time for the rest of his game to come around.

Still up in the air. Anyways, even if Amare becomes a superstar, obtaining a second one only helps our chances at a championship. It isn't like we are trying to add someone to replace him. Hell, it isn't even like we are trying to add an older player. TMAC is what, 25?? With either Tracey or Kobe plus Amare, we would be in a great situation, much better than just with Amare.


Also, I am pretty sure Plantar Fasciitis is in the arch of the foot. Grant Hill has problems with his ankles. Penny tore his Plantar Fasciitis his first year on the suns. He was out maybe 3 months. Someone else just tore theirs too, can't remember who. It is a sucky injury, but not a big deal, nor does it normally linger.


Lastly, I think people are overestimating JJ at this point. Now, people who have been on here know I have been behind the kid from day one. However, when you want to get a superstar, you have to give some stuff up. JJ has proven he needs the ball to be in his hands to be effective. With the current thought that Amare will continue to dominate the offense more, we can assume JJ will stay at his current production, if not regress. Also, he played well for 4 months, not for 6 years. Who knows how effective he will be with Tracey AND Amare on the floor.

Of course, my first choice is still Bryant, then TMAC without JJ being involved. But if Orlando wants to play hardball, I wouldn't be pissed to see JJ go if we got TMAC back.

 

[George O'Brien]

I'm not at all interested Howard. However, I might be interested in Drew Gooden.

14.487 McGrady
3.214 Gooden
------------------
17.701 Total

11.326 Marion
2.359 Johnson
1.744 Voskuhl
1.082 Jacobsen
------------------
16.511 Total

Gooden has a lot of talent even if he has not really shown as much as people had expected so far.

Drew Gooden
Orlando Magic
Position: F
Height: 6-10 Weight: 242
College: Kansas '03
Player file | Team stats

2003-04 Statistics
PPG 11.6
RPG 6.5
APG 1.1
SPG .78
BPG .91
FG% .445
FT% .637
3P% .214
MPG 27.0

Gooden is not a great "fit" for the Suns, but he has tremendous upside and rumors have been that the Magic were shopping him so they could start Howard. He could plays some SF as well as backing up the PF position.

I'm not sure it is enough, but I definitely don't want Howard.

 

[Joe Mama]

First of all, I highly doubt any of these rioters have any real inside information on a possible deal. It seems to me that they are all just rehashing and speculating each other's observations. I forget which paper he works for, but I know Sam Smith chimed in on this about a week ago. Chad Ford of ESPN Insider proposed were speculated that there might be a trade of Shawn Marion, Joe Johnson, and something else for McGrady. I think everybody else is just going off their trade ideas with maybe a few tweaks.

Secondly, when we're talking about trading for Tracy McGrady we have to look at more than just a play on the court. Tracy McGrady is a top five player in the NBA. He is a legitimate superstar. The Suns would get much more national coverage. They would sell more merchandise. They would sell more tickets.

Personally, I think he would be a fantastic fit with Amare Stoudemire. In fact I really think he would be a better match than Kobe Bryant. I don't think he would have any problem throwing the ball down to Amare Stoudemire as much as possible on the offensive end. I do think that would be a problem with Kobe Bryant. I'm not sure I'm ready for all of the BS that would come with signing Kobe Bryant.

If Tracy McGrady was as healthy as Shawn Marion or Joe Johnson these trade ideas would not be so difficult to figure. It's not that he's really missed so many games. It's that he has these nagging injuries and are probably going to keep him out for extended periods of time as he gets older. Shawn Marion and JJ on the other hand are workhorses. Jake Voskuhl is probably a good guy to keep around as long as he will be about to stay healthy. He is a second or third string Center, but he only makes something like $1.5 million per season.

Lastly we have to consider money. I believe Tracy McGrady will get a contract starting at around $15.5 million. Next season in Shawn Marion will make around $11.5 million. Even if Joe Johnson reverts back to his old self he's going to get at least $4 million per season. If he plays just like he did last season after the Marbury trade he'll get at least $6-7 million and most likely a little more. In this trade scenario unloading Jake Voskuhl and draft pick would give them a little under $4 million more to spend in free agency.

Would we all be happy if the Phoenix Suns traded Shawn Marion , Joe Johnson, Jake Voskuhl, and the #7 draft pick for Tracy McGrady then signed Mark Blount and someone like Ginobilli? That would leave them with the following roster.

Center: Mark Blount, Lampe, White

Power forward: Amare Stoudemire, Lampe, veteran minimum?

Small forward : Tracy McGrady, Cabarkapa

Shooting guard: Ginobilli, Casey Jacobsen

Point guard : Barbosa, Howard Eiseley, Tracy McGrady? , veteran minimum?

As I look at that roster I think I would probably prefer at this point to stick with Shawn Marion and Joe Johnson and build the team around Amare Stoudemire as the main man. They have money to spend and a lottery pick to use on a rookie or as part of a trade to free up more money for free agency.

Now if the trade was Tracy McGrady for Shawn Marion and either JJ or the draft pick I would definitely have to reconsider.

Joe Mama

 

[DevonCardsFan]

Personally, I think he would be a fantastic fit with Amare Stoudemire. In fact I really think he would be a better match than Kobe Bryant. I don't think he would have any problem throwing the ball down to Amare Stoudemire as much as possible on the offensive end. I do think that would be a problem with Kobe Bryant. I'm not sure I'm ready for all of the BS that would come with signing Kobe Bryant.

If the Suns were to acquire Kobe and T Mac, as great as it sounds, they would suck worse then the Lakers are sucking right now. Kobe is a ball hog. T Mac is a Ball hog, Amare would be completely assed out. I want T Mac alot more than say Kobe. T Mac and Amare would be a nice 1-2 punch. With Barbosa running the point evenly distrubuting the ball inside and outside. You saw how Marbury held Amare back, while running the point with his shooters mentality, not giving Amare enough touches, holding him back. Imagine adding 2 Ballhogs in McGrady and Kobe. No Way, Maybe if you were playing NBA Live 2004 this trio could co exist. I'd rather see McGrady added and the rest of the cap used on players that can do more then just score. You can have a million scorers on one team, but there is only one ball. Look at Dallas and LA there weakness was exposed come Playoff time. Add McGrady and build around Amare and McGrady with the right set of role players and this team will dominate.

 

[Goldfield]

I agree, the Suns only need one of the two.

Adding both is not only unlikely, but it is an over kill.


Amare needs to be a main focal point. 2 Top scoring superstars is enough. The rest would have to be roll players.

 

[Goldfield]

I agree, the Suns only need one of the two.

Adding both is not only unlikely, but it is an over kill.


Amare needs to be a main focal point. 2 Top scoring superstars is enough. The rest would have to be roll players.

In a perfect world, I would want a sign & trade with Kobe, so we can unload Marions contract.

We should do our best to keep JJ, and use the cap space to fill the roster with rollplayers.

I would easily send Marion, Jacobsen, Barbosa, & the draft pick, & even clevlands pick, for Kobe.

Kobe, & Amare together would be great. Adding a center like Camby(not for the amount he demands) & a guy like Ginobili would be awsome...

 

[slinslin]

We can't really measure TMac's value.

But like Joe_Mama said he would get the Suns a lot more exposure which will help Amare become a superstar as well.

Michael Jordan even in his last years as a Wizard increased the Wizards profit by more than 10M$.

 

[BleedRed]

I like the idea of us getting T-Mac. Marion and J.J. is alot to give, however like a couple of you said T-Mac is a bonified super star in the league. I think it would be a mistake to take Juwan Howard however. He's past his prime and very overpaid (I would actually rather have McDyess on our roster then Howard). I would however be interested in Drew Gooden. He's young and I think has show some flashes of being a good player. I just don't think he's been in the right position (team) to show his true talent. With all that said I'd still hate to see Shawn Marion go. He has a great attitude and is alot of fun to watch. There are a few thing about his game that frustrate me, but I'm a big Marion fan........but T-Mac and Amare would be sweet. Whatever we do it'll be an exciting off-season. Go Suns!!!!!!!

 

[F-Dog]

I still think that the team that trades for McGrady will be the team that sells McGrady on playing for them, not the team that gives the best offer to Orlando.

Why would the Suns give up so much value for McGrady, when he's in the last year of his contract? If he's not willing to re-sign here, they've thown away a lot of good players for nothing; and if he is willing to re-sign here, why don't the Suns just wait for 2005 and sign him in free agency instead?



McGrady is the one holding the cards in any potential trade scenario, so any mock trade where Orlando comes out with equal value would smell very fishy to me.

 

[Chaplin]

Besides, if that trade were actually true, then I would almost guarantee that the new Magic GM would absolutely jump for that deal. The difference between McGrady and Marion on the court is not that big, but sweeten it with JJ AND a top 10 draft pick? That would be incredibly lopsided, even though it's McGrady we're talking about.

 

[Joe Mama]

Besides, if that trade were actually true, then I would almost guarantee that the new Magic GM would absolutely jump for that deal. The difference between McGrady and Marion on the court is not that big, but sweeten it with JJ AND a top 10 draft pick? That would be incredibly lopsided, even though it's McGrady we're talking about.

the difference between McGrady and Marion on the court is huge. It's the difference in the box score that one could argue is not that great. Besides, as we've been talking about there's also a huge difference in the national and local attention Shawn Marion would get as opposed to Tracy McGrady. If it was only the play on the court that was considered when making trades the Philadelphia 76ers would have given away Alan Iverson for cap relief a long time ago.

Joe Mama

 

[Chaplin]

the difference between McGrady and Marion on the court is huge. Joe Mama

Proof?

 

[Joe Mama]

Proof?

Try watching them. Tracy McGrady is in much, much better player than Shawn Marion. The only team that really doesn't have to double-team him is the Indiana Pacers because they have Ron Artest. They also have Jermaine O'Neal waiting in the paint. San Antonio might be able to do it also.

Tracy McGrady and Amare Stoudemire would be a fantastic combination. I have no doubts about that. I just worry about his health and the team depth if they made that trade.

I still think that the team that trades for McGrady will be the team that sells McGrady on playing for them, not the team that gives the best offer to Orlando.

Why would the Suns give up so much value for McGrady, when he's in the last year of his contract? If he's not willing to re-sign here, they've thown away a lot of good players for nothing; and if he is willing to re-sign here, why don't the Suns just wait for 2005 and sign him in free agency instead?



McGrady is the one holding the cards in any potential trade scenario, so any mock trade where Orlando comes out with equal value would smell very fishy to me.

great point F-Dog. I hadn't really thought of it like that. Tracy McGrady has to agree to an extension. That's really the key to any deal involving him where they get something really substantial in return. Of course it is illegal to deal with McGrady while he's under contract with Orlando, but I'm sure wouldn't be difficult to get the ideas out there to him.

In a perfect world Shawn Marion would be making what he's worth which is at the $8 million. If it wasn't for that a contract that would rather keep him than JJ is the Suns acquired one of the superstar perimeter players. JJ struggles when he doesn't touch the ball a lot. I think they should either build the team with the idea that he and Amare Stoudemire will have most of the time were trade JJ while he has good value.

Joe Mama

 

[scotsman13]

the difference between McGrady and Marion on the court is huge. It's the difference in the box score that one could argue is not that great. Besides, as we've been talking about there's also a huge difference in the national and local attention Shawn Marion would get as opposed to Tracy McGrady. If it was only the play on the court that was considered when making trades the Philadelphia 76ers would have given away Alan Iverson for cap relief a long time ago.

Joe Mama

yea joe you are right marion is a much better player then tmac if you just look at the box scores. with marion you get 9-10 boards a game, the second best steals person in the nba (best forward or center). the ability to make a differance without having to get the ball 20 times a game. and also another big thing is not having the bad back that tmac. heck maybe we are getting ripped off on a straight marion for tmac trade. but if you put in jj and a top 10 pick this is a trade that people will be crying for years is one of the worst in nba history. i personally dont care about media attention what i do care about is having a team that will be succussful for years. if i really thought that bring in tmac or kobe or both would match up with amare and lead this team to the promise land then i would be all off it, but i dont. i believe that finding players who will match up with amare should be our biggest concern. not wondering if we would have to trade half of our team to get someone and then wondering of we may loose the rest because of the player we traded for doesnt get along with the other because they must have the ball in their hand at all time. tmac lead his team to 18 wins, kobe if he doesnt get his way blows up his team to cost them wins, does this sound like players who will match up with an amare first offense? remember inside out is how you make a team win now outside in.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

heck maybe we are getting ripped off on a straight marion for tmac trade

............

I stopped reading after that comment since it has to be one of the more ridiculous things you have said. Not to mention giant clumps of words without paragraphs hurt my eyes.

 

[Chaplin]

............

I stopped reading after that comment since it has to be one of the more ridiculous things you have said. Not to mention giant clumps of words without paragraphs hurt my eyes.

Geez, I believe he was trying to be sarcastic...