Marion Status for Game 2...

[Cheesebeef]

I don't see why that can't apply to Shawn Marion as well. I don't think there has been any indication this season that he's mentally soft. None. And we're talking over an 82 game, 6-month season, not a 4 month, 16 game season.

tomorrow night's meet ain't looking good right now Chap. Agreed - he played out of his head this season and I thought he might be shaking the "soft" moniker - but the playoffs are where the proof's in the pudding. He had a great game 1 - I hope he can return and do more - there' snothing more I'd like than to be shut up as Shawn leads us to a title as the smallest PF in years.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

None of us know anything. This is all part of the psyche game D’antoni is playing with Fratello. I think D’antoni has proven to be a coach who can psyche out the opponent just as well as Pop and Phil Jackson. Regardless of whether Marion can play or not, D’antoni will not share that information until tip off tomorrow night. And that’s as it should be.

And Cheese, you’re calling Marion, who “effectively” defends the games best power forwards, “soft?” You really have no idea what the situation is with Marion. So I think labeling him soft is a bit premature. Will he be tentative and maybe a bit timid driving to the basket his next time on the court. Probably. And who could blame him if he is? But the fact is we won’t know anything until the next time Marion is on the court.

what in the world do you base your first comment on? what evidence can you point to as d'antoni being a "psyche out" coach? that's news to me.

and cheese's "soft" label on marion stems more from the fact that he pulls up for floaters than taking it hard to the hole. that's been the case with marion ever since the starks incident. he doesn't like contact. it's a fact. he gets huge kudos for his d on the pfs in the league though.

 

[Cheesebeef]

None of us know anything. This is all part of the psyche game D’antoni is playing with Fratello. I think D’antoni has proven to be a coach who can psyche out the opponent just as well as Pop and Phil Jackson.

wow - didn't see this - just skipped right to my name in the above post. Now i know to take anything you say with two bag fulls of salt. Come on man - being a homer is understandable and all, but DA has proven he can psyche out opponents as the best two coaches in the league? That's just as ridiculous as my car repairs!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

wow - the first comment was totally necessary - ass.

See if I stoop to name-calling. Are you telling me that you didn't see the gaping logical flaw in your reasoning?

I don't know if ti's possible to go from being soft to being strong mentally.

Scottie Pippen.

i wouldn't call it gaping 'cuz there's a huge difference between:

1) being competitive in games for the first time in years
2) a great 2004 draft
3) a great 2004 offseason
4) a great 2005 draft
5) a great 2005 offseason

verses

1) one good playoff game

and the scottie pippen was a good call. i can only hope that's what we're seeing outta marion now . . .

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Sorry about your car! It must be a pretty good one, though, because otherwise you'd just scrap it. My car isn't worth half that.

i don't think his worth half of that anymore either.

 

[se7en]

My evidence of D’antoni being a decent psyche out coach is in his ability to play the media game with other top coaches through out the season. He comes across as has having a veteran mentality. Maybe you didn’t notice that throughout the season or maybe you weren’t following the Suns as closely as you do this new powerhouse Cardinals team.

No but seriously, IMHO I just think D’antoni has a veteran presence about him. Please don’t mistake that for implying that he has accomplished anything yet.

As for Marion, most players don’t blossom until their mid to late 20’s. Marion is really just now at the age to start fulfilling his promise as a veteran and a star. I actually noticed him driving to the basket more often in the games I was able to see this year. Maybe I’m wrong. As Chap said, he played like an Allstar for 82 games. In football years that would be 5 NFL seasons. That’s hardly soft in my opinion.

 

[se7en]

i wouldn't call it gaping 'cuz there's a huge difference between:

1) being competitive in games for the first time in years
2) a great 2004 draft
3) a great 2004 offseason
4) a great 2005 draft
5) a great 2005 offseason

verses

1) one good playoff game

and the scottie pippen was a good call. i can only hope that's what we're seeing outta marion now . . .

Dude, IT IS ABSOLUTELY GAPING. The Cardinals have won a single playoff game in 50 YEARS. The Suns have only missed the playoffs like twice in the past 20 years.


Your opinion is not even grounded in facts. You’re basing your teams FUTURE success on POTENTIAL and OPINION. You claim that the Cardinals have had GREAT drafts the past two years. The reality is that you won’t be able to give those drafts any type of legitimate label for at least another year or two. They haven’t won anything. The Suns on the other hand had the best record in the entire NBA, made it to the playoffs and are winning in the playoffs. That to me is a MASSIVE gap over what you seem to think the Cardinals have accomplished.

PS. Sorry about the caps. Just wanted to add some pizzaz to my debate, which I’m sure CHEESE will spoil by adding some sort of insult (two bags of salt – very friendly of you)– something I will not resort too.

 

[Tank]

When did this become the Cards board?

 

[Chaz]

D'Antoni on 1060 right now.

Marion is better today and think he should be ready by tomorrow.


I think he will play. How limited he will be is the question.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

My evidence of D’antoni being a decent psyche out coach is in his ability to play the media game with other top coaches through out the season. He comes across as has having a veteran mentality. Maybe you didn’t notice that throughout the season or maybe you weren’t following the Suns as closely as you do this new powerhouse Cardinals team.

No but seriously, IMHO I just think D’antoni has a veteran presence about him. Please don’t mistake that for implying that he has accomplished anything yet.

As for Marion, most players don’t blossom until their mid to late 20’s. Marion is really just now at the age to start fulfilling his promise as a veteran and a star. I actually noticed him driving to the basket more often in the games I was able to see this year. Maybe I’m wrong. As Chap said, he played like an Allstar for 82 games. In football years that would be 5 NFL seasons. That’s hardly soft in my opinion.

can we stop with the football-basketball comparisons already? they're nothing more than antagonizing and don't provide any relevant metaphors.

you might have seen marion driving TOWARDS the basket more this year, but he still pulls up with that floater avoiding contact. he doesn't take a lot of free throws and an athlete with his type of hops should be drawing more contact. he rightly gets the same criticism that was levelled at vince until this year. they don't (or in vince's case, didn't) go hard at the basket.

as for the d'antoni, you weren't proffering the argument that d'antoni was a veteran coach, but rather, that he had the ability to psyche out other players, coaches, refs (not sure who you were directing it at actually). and i'll reiterate my question . . . what actions of d's brought you to that belief? i've read every article regarding the suns that i could put my mitts on this year and never once did i come to the conclusion that coach d was playing the media. not in the manner of phil jackson or pop. not even in the laid back manner that westy did it in the '93 playoff run.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Dude, IT IS ABSOLUTELY GAPING. The Cardinals have won a single playoff game in 50 YEARS. The Suns have only missed the playoffs like twice in the past 20 years.


Your opinion is not even grounded in facts. You’re basing your teams FUTURE success on POTENTIAL and OPINION. You claim that the Cardinals have had GREAT drafts the past two years. The reality is that you won’t be able to give those drafts any type of legitimate label for at least another year or two. They haven’t won anything. The Suns on the other hand had the best record in the entire NBA, made it to the playoffs and are winning in the playoffs. That to me is a MASSIVE gap over what you seem to think the Cardinals have accomplished.

PS. Sorry about the caps. Just wanted to add some pizzaz to my debate, which I’m sure CHEESE will spoil by adding some sort of insult (two bags of salt – very friendly of you)– something I will not resort too.

when did we go from comparing the change in the cardinals verses a percieved change in marion's softness to a flat out comparison of the suns and cardinals?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Dude, IT IS ABSOLUTELY GAPING. The Cardinals have won a single playoff game in 50 YEARS. The Suns have only missed the playoffs like twice in the past 20 years.


Your opinion is not even grounded in facts. You’re basing your teams FUTURE success on POTENTIAL and OPINION. You claim that the Cardinals have had GREAT drafts the past two years. The reality is that you won’t be able to give those drafts any type of legitimate label for at least another year or two. They haven’t won anything. The Suns on the other hand had the best record in the entire NBA, made it to the playoffs and are winning in the playoffs. That to me is a MASSIVE gap over what you seem to think the Cardinals have accomplished.

PS. Sorry about the caps. Just wanted to add some pizzaz to my debate, which I’m sure CHEESE will spoil by adding some sort of insult (two bags of salt – very friendly of you)– something I will not resort too.

when the hell did this become a Cards versus Suns debate? Way to miss the entire point of the discussion. There is NO DOUBT the Suns are a VASTLY superior franchise to the Cardinals - who the hell is arguing anything differently?

As far as the "insult" - sorry man - but when you compare DA to the best two coache sin the game - I'm gonna speak my mind - I thought it was over the top ridiculous that comment and still do.

 

[Cheesebeef]

As Chap said, he played like an Allstar for 82 games. In football years that would be 5 NFL seasons. That’s hardly soft in my opinion.

huh? Do you just not like football and that is why you keep bringing it into the argument? Again - Marion had a GREAT regular season - just as he did when he was a no-show against the Kings and just as he did when he struggled against Spurs two years ago.

He had a GREAT Game 1 (just like he did aginst the Kings two years ago) but to say that because (another) very good regular season doesn't mean he ain't soft.

As far as the 5 season of NFL play - I'm still wscratching my head over that one. What the hell does that even mean? (chewing on salt as I type )

 

[Cheesebeef]

Here's what I REALLY don't get - the seemingly ridiculous sibling rivarly between the Cards fans and the Suns fans on this board. Every single one of my friends in Phoenix LOVE both teams, yet it seems like people line up here ready to draw blood over our two home teams. Seems kinda stupid to me.

 

[se7en]

I believe Ouchie was talking about Cardinal drafts and whatnot. Did you guys not notice?????? That was how the football thing got going. Actually you guys started the football thing yesterday. If you’d like to lay it on me, that’s cool. Whatever floats your boat, man. As long as you guys keep throwing the Cardinal thing out there, I’ll keep throwing it right back at ya.

Just remember that it’s all in good fun. Just no rock throwing though. Someone could lose an eye or something.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I believe Ouchie was talking about Cardinal drafts and whatnot. Did you guys not notice?????? That was how the football thing got going. Actually you guys started the football thing yesterday. If you’d like to lay it on me, that’s cool. Whatever floats your boat, man. As long as you guys keep throwing the Cardinal thing out there, I’ll keep throwing it right back at ya.

Just remember that it’s all in good fun. Just no rock throwing though. Someone could lose an eye or something.

dude - someone yesterday started by bashing the Cards and we said that things were changing - that WAS ALL - then E brought them up again today when I called Marion soft and you started bringing them into every post. Go back and actually look at what happened - you'll see (just as you were about DA) that you were wrong.

Exactly WHAT Cards thing are throwing out there also - can you answer that question? Are we saying the Cards are better or even a SIMILAR organization to the Suns? Please find that post for me.

 

[Cheesebeef]

As long as you guys keep throwing the Cardinal thing out there, I’ll keep throwing it right back at ya.

again - I'll just take this question here and make it really simple: What "Cardinal thing" are we throwing out there that would make it seem like you needed to slam them and who was the first person to bring them up in each of these conversations?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

but his previous lack of playoff performance is what leads me to believe he's soft.

LOL, this coming from a Cardinal fan who wants to disregard the last 60 years of the franchise because they just had a good draft last weekend.

Marion was a playoff disappointment before, but there was nothing soft about his performance in Game 1. Don't you think it's possible that he was soft, but isn't anymore?

hey se7en, THIS is the first post mentioning the cardinals. I did not bring it up. i expect an apology.

 

[Cheesebeef]

hey se7en, THIS is the first post mentioning the cardinals. I did not bring it up. i expect an apology.

or else he's gonna tell your mommy!

Dad's gonna kill me BTW.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I believe Ouchie was talking about Cardinal drafts and whatnot. Did you guys not notice?????? That was how the football thing got going. Actually you guys started the football thing yesterday. If you’d like to lay it on me, that’s cool. Whatever floats your boat, man. As long as you guys keep throwing the Cardinal thing out there, I’ll keep throwing it right back at ya.

Just remember that it’s all in good fun. Just no rock throwing though. Someone could lose an eye or something.

and, we didn't start the football thing yesterday. someone posted that article from memphis that bagged on the cards and someone else (maybe eric again - ah ha! the culprit) followed up with cards smack. we just started to point out that they cards weren't the same old cards. and it just tornado'ed from there. then you jumped the shark and started comparing the two franchises which i think everyone on here can agree was completely outta left field.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

or else he's gonna tell your mommy!

Dad's gonna kill me BTW.

i think it may be time for you to not tell dad, sell the car, and get a jalopy that's deserving of the way you treat it. i mean, that's what the cardinals would do. it's the smart thing. the suns are better. no shampoo is better!

 

[Cheesebeef]

and, we didn't start the football thing yesterday. someone posted that article from memphis that bagged on the cards and someone else (maybe eric again - ah ha! the culprit) followed up with cards smack. we just started to point out that they cards weren't the same old cards. and it just tornado'ed from there. then you jumped the shark and started comparing the two franchises which i think everyone on here can agree was completely outta left field.

Notice here that E completely ripped the Cards to shreds, without provocation - Ouchie repsonded that things are changing (NOTE: CHANGING - not changed!) and then you went on to say you don't know much about football but the Cards are patehtic and not even close to a quality team or franchise(basically moving the argument somewhere else and putting words into Ouchie's mouth that he never said).

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=52553&page=2&pp=15

 

[Chaplin]

This is ridiculous, so let's end it now:

1) Shawn Marion is NOT soft

2) The Cardinals are definitely on the upswing

 

[Cheesebeef]

This is ridiculous, so let's end it now:

1) Shawn Marion is NOT soft

2) The Cardinals are definitely on the upswing

both of those are debatable.

 

[Chaplin]

both of those are debatable.

Not if you bite the bullet and agree...