Marion was tired of Suns

[BeeBeard]

management of the HEAT is among the best in the NBA.

I literally stopped reading after your opening sentence. You've lost all credibility.


edit: Wanted to add that trying to refute an argument about how lousy Micky Arison is by talking about Pat Riley is pretty ridiculous. You do know that the owner and the GM of a team are different things, right?

 

[MiamiHeat]

prove what you say or YOU have no credibility.

also, if you don't read posts, then don't post.

all you do is throw around accusations. with lines like "Is it any wonder why Marion won't play for the Heat?' you prove you don't know anything. marion seems to be playing every game and has expressed his wishes to stay in miami long term.

 

[Lorenzo]

shaq did NOT WIN the heat a championship.

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^ Wade, Finals MVP, won the championship. I don't think you watched the FINALS MAVS vs HEAT at all.

management of the HEAT is among the best in the NBA. the HEAT just had no wiggle room because of shaq's salary.

the HEAT clearly said they were willing to go over the cap for a player that was worth it.

Kapono signing a deal with Toronto paying him 6 million a year is NOT worth it. kapono is not worth that much.

posey is a huge loss that the HEAT miss very much. i'm one of the fans that knew from day 1 we needed to keep him. the problem was, he wanted more money than we had to offer him.

basically it came down to this : the HEAT were sweeped 4-0 with shaq, posey, and kapono

so why would Pat Riley, with only like 6 mil to work with, use it all on 1 of those guys we just got swept with? Kapono IS NOT WORTH 6mil a year. period. and if we used it all on Posey, we are the same team that got swept 4-0 WITH posey. so riley said no and tried to go after Mo Williams, asking him to sign with Miami for LESS MONEY because we don't have cap space. obviously, mo said no and went back to Milwaukee. we were left with Smush Parker....

that's how you end up like this. then on top of all of this, shaq DEMANDS a buyout by threatening to remain injured because he wants to go to DALLAS. so locker room chemistry and team is now even worse off. wade missed the start of season because of injury surgery and is trying to recover.....

that's how. riley has proved to be one of the best GM's -ever- if you look at his track record. his coaching speaks for itself, one of best all time top 3. and micky arison is a nice guy, one of top 2 richest NBA owners around who isn't afraid to go over tax but it has to be worth it.

I agree with you heat fan. shaq was absent in those finals he was outplayed by his backup mourning who actually had a great series especially on defense. who took away a lot of points in the paint that the mavs were so used to getting against other top teams. but you have to give shaq some credit for getting the heat to the finals....he played very well vs. detroit in the prior series. at least in the games I watched.

as far as riley...this is a great move getting shaq out. he's older and slower than ever and has no business making that much money on a lottery team or any team. eventhough he would of fit well on the mavs team.....they are already overpaying at the center position. shaq would of been too much to pay for in all aspects. the heat won't stay down for long if they can add to wade and marion. they may get a top notch player in the draft and should have cap space now right?

 

[BeeBeard]

prove what you say or YOU have no credibility.

also, if you don't read posts, then don't post.

all you do is throw around accusations. with lines like "Is it any wonder why Marion won't play for the Heat?' you prove you don't know anything. marion seems to be playing every game and has expressed his wishes to stay in miami long term.

Seriously? Now you're just making things up. As a professed fan of the Miami Heat, you show a surprising lack of knowledge about Shawn Marion's situation. The word is that the Heat really don't want to have to deal with Dan Fegan in the offseason, and are trying to encourage Marion to test the free agency waters. Fegan, as you (apparently don't) know, is the same agent who strongarmed the Cavs with the Varejao holdout at the beginning of the season. When word gets around that you have a hardass negotiating your contracts, teams suddenly decide they would rather have the cap space than the headache. Short story long, you're going to feel extremely foolish when Marion does not exercise his option and walks in the offseason, just as his agent has intimated that he will do.

edit: That's all you'll get out of me, friend. I'm not going to acknowledge your anti-Shaq / pro god-knows-what spammy posts any longer. Welcome to my ignore list.

 

[MiamiHeat]

yes after this horrible season Jason WIlliams (9mil) and Ricky Davis (7mil) contracts are gone. Mourning retires most likely, so another 3m = 19m off the books this coming off-season. IF Marion opts out, 36million free.

add this to our top 4 guaranteed pick (as long as we continue tanking lol) and we are set. i don't agree with tanking all the time, but after this whole mess of the shaq trade, we were 9-39 when marion came. so no point in trying to salvage a lost season, gotta be about the draft pick. it's bad to say but tanking is better at this point. even though the HEAT won past 2 of 3 games

 

[Lorenzo]

yes after this horrible season Jason WIlliams (9mil) and Ricky Davis (7mil) contracts are gone. Mourning retires most likely, so another 3m = 19m off the books this coming off-season. IF Marion opts out, 36million free.

add this to our top 4 guaranteed pick (as long as we continue tanking lol) and we are set. i don't agree with tanking all the time, but after this whole mess of the shaq trade, we were 9-39 when marion came. so no point in trying to salvage a lost season, gotta be about the draft pick. it's bad to say but tanking is better at this point. even though the HEAT won past 2 of 3 games

sounds good for miami. marion is a great player and I wish he were on the mavs. you can't account for all of the things that he does on the court because they don't always show up in the box score. and it's not like he can't rebound and play defense. His biggest problem in phoenix was the constant trade rumors and he was always the scape goat at the end of the year it seemed. I guess that goes in line with his huge contract....he might have been a tad overpaid. but he is who he is.

 

[MiamiHeat]

BeeBeard : this is my last post to you because you have proved to me that you are kind of crazy and don't know what you talk about.

As a professed fan of the Miami Heat, you show a surprising lack of knowledge about Shawn Marion's situation. The word is that the Heat really don't want to have to deal with Dan Fegan in the offseason, and are trying to encourage Marion to test the free agency waters.

1) Despite the Heat's offseason salary-cap options coming down to whether forward Shawn Marion opts out of the $17.8 million he is due next season, Riley said the subject has not yet been broached.

"Once the season is over with, then we'll talk," Riley said. "It's really his option, it's not ours. We definitely want him here."

Riley said there are too many considerations to address an extension during the season.

"There's a lot of planning and thinking to do about the roster," he said, "and also adding hypothetical numbers up and how they will work over the next two or three years."…

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/basketball/heat/sfl-flspheatnote27sbfeb27,0,7896949.story

You're going to feel extremely foolish when Marion does not exercise his option and walks in the offseason, just as his agent has intimated that he will do.

2) Why would I feel foolish? Marion said he wants to stay, but if he doesn't stay, why would the HEAT care? It's common knowledge all over the NBA world, that with or without shawn marion, the HEAT are lookin good in the future. if he leaves, we are huge players in free agency in the biggest free agency pool in a long time. guys like Iguodala (remember him last night), Arenas, Elton Brand, Emeka Okafor, a ton of guys.
so stays or not, fine with us

 

[MiamiHeat]

he was always the scape goat at the end of the year it seemed. I guess that goes in line with his huge contract....he might have been a tad overpaid. but he is who he is.

if you think HE was overpaid with his great defense able to guard 1-4 positions, good hustle, scoring, rebounding, etc......... wait till shaq's contract sinks in with suns fans.

 

[Lorenzo]

if you think HE was overpaid with his great defense able to guard 1-4 positions, good hustle, scoring, rebounding, etc......... wait till shaq's contract sinks in with suns fans.

no doubt shaq is overpaid at this point. that's why the lakers let him go because his best years were behind him. at that point he was worth every penny.

marion deserves to be paid...but he has some weaknesses at the offensive end. and the suns were/still are an offensive team. so when things went wrong...no one was looking at his stellar defensive effort or rebounding and being critical in that regard. they were looking at his offensive game....in paticular his one on one play in the half court. that's why he is/was a tad overpaid IMO.

 

[SirStefan32]

I am so sick of trolls. I miss good old days when only troll we had was that Penny Hardaway fan, lol. I miss good meaningful basketball discussions as opposed to "Ha ha, you suck, and we kick ass."

 

[Agloco]

Um, yeah.

The team is not playing well, by any measure, but O'Neal himself looks okay.

That's no secret to the Suns now, nor was it before the trade.

I vehemently disagree with that, but we'll see how the next 4-5 years go before making the final call.

Not relevant.

Your post would seem to indicate that you think things will turn around because Shaq is, as you put it, ok. So you'd have me believe that at some point the magic will simply appear and things will begin to start flowing again?

What sort of identity do you see this team having anyway? Certainly these aren't the same run and gun Suns anymore eh?

Built better for the playoffs I'll give you that. But built for the system they currently play? Absolutely not.

As for Marion, there are examples of 2nd bananas who can dominate games, but none who give the consistency game in and game out that Marion does. From top to bottom who has a more well rounded game?

 

[Agloco]

Marion is definately not one of the best 2nd banana's in the league right now.

Manu is 2nd banana (or possibly even 3rd after Tony Parkers performance in last years playoffs!) to Tim Duncan and Manu can dominate a game.

Shawn Marion does not dominate playoff games, he can put up solid if sometimes slightly below regular season numbers, but marion has never ever single handedly torn a team apart in the playoffs like Manu or Parker can.

Did you see Caron Butler last year on the wizards? Nasty.

Tyson Chandler and his BEASTLY rebounding yet he is obviously 2nd fiddle to CP on the hornets. I (and many other suns fans) would have taken that type of rebounding in a straight up trade for marion ANY DAY of the week.

etc. etc.

*edit: I think though you could definately make a case for marion being best 3rd banana with his stat stuffing.

2nd bananas come in many forms. Some complimentary, some to take over if the 1st banana is unable to do so.

Marion was the complimentary sort and had this luxury because he didn't have to put up huge numbers in order for the Suns to win games.

He's a glue guy, but one who provides all the intangibles at both ends of the court.

Has Butler ever played a lick of defense in his life? Can Tyson Chandler dial in a three ball or defend the 1-4? It's Marions versatility that you guys will miss. It's also what makes him IMO one of the more attractive potential FA pickups for rebuilding or contending teams.

Hell, he'd look really good in a Spurs outfit as Bowens hier (I'm dreaming, but......)


I wonder if what Shaq gives you guys is worth what you lost in Marion? Steve Kerr seems to think so. Good luck on that.

 

[elindholm]

Your post would seem to indicate that you think things will turn around because Shaq is, as you put it, ok.

It doesn't indicate any such thing.

So you'd have me believe that at some point the magic will simply appear and things will begin to start flowing again?

It might and it might not. I don't know.

What sort of identity do you see this team having anyway? Certainly these aren't the same run and gun Suns anymore eh?

Apparently not, but again, I really don't know.

Built better for the playoffs I'll give you that. But built for the system they currently play? Absolutely not.

I think that's self-evident.

The Suns took a huge risk and had no way of knowing how it was going to pan out. The magnitude of the change was just too great for anyone to make a reasonable prediction. So far, it looks bad. Maybe they'll be vindicated in the end, but I wouldn't want to wager on it either way.

However, you've been implying (at least in my opinion) that all of a sudden Kerr and D'Antoni are thinking, "Holy crap, Shaq really sucks! Why didn't we know this before?" And I think that's completely wrong. They knew what they were getting with O'Neal and figured, "We're not sure whether this will work, but what the hell, we really don't have much to lose." I don't think O'Neal's decline is exactly what you'd call a well-kept secret in the league. Kerr and D'Antoni (or whoever made the decision) had no illusions of getting the vintage Shaq.

So now the question is whether they can come up with a "system" that incorporates a broken-down, but still reasonably effective O'Neal into what was a run-and-gun attack. That's a tall order. I don't know how or whether they will do it, but I'm sure that those in charge knew it wasn't going to be easy.

As for Marion, there are examples of 2nd bananas who can dominate games, but none who give the consistency game in and game out that Marion does. From top to bottom who has a more well rounded game?

I'm really not interested in debating Marion's strengths and weaknesses, but if you insist, give me rigorous definitions of "consistency" and "well rounded" and I'll see what I can do. Otherwise let's drop it.