Markelle Fultz

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If you go through older stuff on the board you'll see I really loved Fultz in HS. One of the classic knocks on him from UA fans which I defended him against at the time, now actually rings really true. he says he picked UW because Romar was the first major coach to recruit him and offer him a scholarship. For a long time everyone thought he was going to Arizona and when he didn't UA fans said he doesn't want to win, he doesn't want to compete, he chose the easier coach to play for. I defended him agains that, maybe he's loyal like he said, maybe he wants to play in a system with more offensive freedom etc. Maybe he's a leader.

in hindsight everything he did in college went against what I expected. He should have gone to UA, would have won, and more importantly played for a coach that demanded he play hard on defense.

it really did look this year like UA fans were right, he chose the path of least resistance by playing for Romar.

The game he played against UCLA on Inside So Cal they had comments from an unnamed NBA scout just like your NBA gm who said UCLA wouldn't have been as good with Fultz. The scout said they're both pretty even, the one thing he said right off the bat is you want to see more competitiveness from Fultz than he showed, by the time he started competing his team was down nearly 30 points. they lost by 41, they were going to lose regardless, but maybe if he played harder early on the game would have been closer. His team seemed to give up pretty early and maybe some of that was because their best player was so passive.

I respect a player going against the grain. Sheer is always talking about how important relationships are and Romar being a father figure to him. He got to Fultz early and it paid off. Too bad we couldn't get Romar last year :/.

It's showing he committed Dec of 2015 which is 4-5 months before Chriss declared. Seeing what Chriss did with the Suns and you could imagine what those two would've done together. Chriss' potential was probably another selling point to Fultz.

Washington being awful has no bearing whatsoever on my opinion of Fultz unless he doesn't show any competitive fire during workouts which I can't imagine he wouldn't.
 

Russ Smith

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I respect a player going against the grain. Sheer is always talking about how important relationships are and Romar being a father figure to him. He got to Fultz early and it paid off. Too bad we couldn't get Romar last year :/.

It's showing he committed Dec of 2015 which is 4-5 months before Chriss declared. Seeing what Chriss did with the Suns and you could imagine what those two would've done together. Chriss' potential was probably another selling point to Fultz.

Washington being awful has no bearing whatsoever on my opinion of Fultz unless he doesn't show any competitive fire during workouts which I can't imagine he wouldn't.

Yeah I don't think he committed there wanting to lose I'm saying I defended him against criticism from UA fans that he picked UW because Romar is an easier coach to play for, but that's what it looked like his one year there. I get that Romar bonds with kids, and I'm all for players not following too, that's why I defended Rabb going to Cal, he wanted to stay home he'd promised his mom he'd be around for his brother and did.

I'm just saying it took one year at UW for Fultz to change my opinion from a kid with a chip on his shoulder because he was a late bloomer, to a kid who played like he was just going through the motions and picked UW because he knew Romar would be easy to play for.

Nobody dislikes Calipari more than I do but you watch that 30 for 30 and how he interacts with players and you get that while I don't think he's a good technical coach, he gets his guys to play hard, if you don't, you sit. Romar is sort of the opposite of that.
 

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I'm sure GS was worried about defense when they drafted Curry.

I don't think they were but the reality is Curry is the perfect example of what I don't like about Fultz. You going to tell me Davidson had appreciably more talent on that roster than UW did? They had a better coach, and they were more experienced, UW was pretty young, but they weren't nearly as athletic. Truly great players impact the team they're on more than just stats, Fultz didn't.

He could be a great pro, he has all the talent, but while people are asking name the last guy to succeed with a unique shot like Lonzo(in the Lonzo Ball thread) other people are asking how many guys worthy of being the #1 overall pick who went on to be great pros, had such little impact in college on their teams won/loss record?

Truly elite players make their teammates better, so far Fultz hasn't shown he can do that.
 

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I don't think they were but the reality is Curry is the perfect example of what I don't like about Fultz. You going to tell me Davidson had appreciably more talent on that roster than UW did? They had a better coach, and they were more experienced, UW was pretty young, but they weren't nearly as athletic. Truly great players impact the team they're on more than just stats, Fultz didn't.

He could be a great pro, he has all the talent, but while people are asking name the last guy to succeed with a unique shot like Lonzo(in the Lonzo Ball thread) other people are asking how many guys worthy of being the #1 overall pick who went on to be great pros, had such little impact in college on their teams won/loss record?

Truly elite players make their teammates better, so far Fultz hasn't shown he can do that.
This BY FAR my greatest concern. You can say "look at Simmons last year, LSU didn't make the tourney" but nor did they 8-22. Let that sink in . . . that's not just having a sub .500 team, that's being 14 GAMES BELOW .500. To me that's a huge red flag.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

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There is no comparison to Curry IMO. Davidson was in the Southern conference back then and he played around a bunch of juniors his freshman year and seniors his sophomore year. The PAC 12 was a much stronger conference this year than most other conferences in the nation and couple that with having terrible teammates and coaching and the record really isn't all that shocking.
 

Russ Smith

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There is no comparison to Curry IMO. Davidson was in the Southern conference back then and he played around a bunch of juniors his freshman year and seniors his sophomore year. The PAC 12 was a much stronger conference this year than most other conferences in the nation and couple that with having terrible teammates and coaching and the record really isn't all that shocking.


To be clear I'm talking about his soph year when he took them within a few plays of a final 4 beating Gonzaga, Georgetown and Wisconsin before losing by 2 points to a loaded Kansas team that won the national title that year.

yes they were more experienced but they went 29-7.

I don't actually think the Pac 12 was particularly good this year, there were 3 really good teams, Oregon, Arizona and UCLA, and everyone else was pretty mediocre to terrible. USC was good enough I guess. But there were some god awful teams in the Pac 12 this year.

UW lost to Yale, TCU twice and Washington State twice, their best win all year was a 2 point win over a mediocre Colorado team.

That team Curry was on played UNC, Duke, UCLA, NC State, only UCLA beat them by double digits. That time would have finished 4th in the Pac 12 this year IMO. They went 27-8 the next year, no tourney bid, and then Curry left and they went 16-15 or 11 less wins without Curry.

I get that Curry is one of the best players in the NBA now but that's what elite players do in college, they elevate the team they're on.

I remember watching that loss to Kansas and thinking my goodness if you took Curry off the floor this is a 40 point win for KU, they had perhaps the best defensive backcourt in the country and they were still doubling Curry all over the place.
 

JCSunsfan

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I don't think they were but the reality is Curry is the perfect example of what I don't like about Fultz. You going to tell me Davidson had appreciably more talent on that roster than UW did? They had a better coach, and they were more experienced, UW was pretty young, but they weren't nearly as athletic. Truly great players impact the team they're on more than just stats, Fultz didn't.

He could be a great pro, he has all the talent, but while people are asking name the last guy to succeed with a unique shot like Lonzo(in the Lonzo Ball thread) other people are asking how many guys worthy of being the #1 overall pick who went on to be great pros, had such little impact in college on their teams won/loss record?

Truly elite players make their teammates better, so far Fultz hasn't shown he can do that.
Food for thought here.
 

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Paul George was on a Fresno State team that went 13-21 and then 15-18 the next year. That is the only one I can think of.
 

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Klay Thompson went 16-15 in both his first two seasons at Washington State
 

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Those are the only all stars this year that I could find with bad college records.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Those are the only all stars this year that I could find with bad college records.
The paul George one is interesting. The klay Thompson isn't as persuasive considering he was at a worse program than Washington historically and still had a winning record verses 9-22 putridity.
 

slinslin

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OMFG if I read one more stupid argument about winning record I am going to lose it.

Washington did not have a winning record last year and lost their top 3 players while only bringing in Fultz.

Anthony Davis is a top 5 player in the NBA and losing. It means nothing. You can't win alone.

Washington was a massively better team with Fultz on the court than with him off the court. The difference was bigger than what Ball made for UCLA, in terms of on-the court vs off-the court Fultz lead the nation I believe or at least it was draft prospects.
 
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Sunburn

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OMFG if I read one more stupid argument about winning record I am going to lose it.

Washington did not have a winning record last year and lost their top 3 players while only bringing in Fultz.

Anthony Davis is a top 5 player in the NBA and losing. It means nothing. You can't win alone.

Who was the last superstar in the NBA whose team in college lost as badly as Fultz?
 

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It is completely irrelevant.

95% or more of the top rated prospects go to big programs with strong recruiting classes that are going to win anyway.

If I was picking in the draft I'd like to know if any great players have come from a terrible team in college. I'd like to know if that player had played a significant role on that team. It may be nothing. Then again, it may speak to his ability to elevate a team. If no greats have come from a team that lost as badly as Fultz', with his usage, I would want to know that.
 

slinslin

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If I was picking in the draft I'd like to know if any great players have come from a terrible team in college. I'd like to know if that player had played a significant role on that team. It may be nothing. Then again, it may speak to his ability to elevate a team. If no greats have come from a team that lost as badly as Fultz', with his usage, I would want to know that.

It is futile.

There is no sample size for this.

Fultz is 18 years old, one and done, top prospect that went to a depleted C-tier program.

I guarantee you that not all NBA stars were winners in college as 18 year old freshman except those who picked to go to programs that simply win every year.
 

slinslin

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Not to mention the reason Washington lost was because they were the 225th ranked defensive team.

To blame that on your 18 year old star PG is absolutely ridiculous.
 

Russ Smith

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Paul George was on a Fresno State team that went 13-21 and then 15-18 the next year. That is the only one I can think of.


Nobody projected him or Klay as the first pick in the draft.
 

Russ Smith

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Not to mention the reason Washington lost was because they were the 225th ranked defensive team.

To blame that on your 18 year old star PG is absolutely ridiculous.


Nobody is blaming him for them losing. They're saying he didn't make them better.

Look at the record down the stretch. They lost whether he played or not, the difference in margin was 2 points.
 

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