Markelle Fultz

[Phrazbit]

No it's not ideal it's the worst situation we can get into if we draft Fultz or Ball. Your gonna stunt the growth of Ulis and Bledsoe does not have the personality of being happy "training his replacement " we also still have Knight on the roster

You move him on draft day and get what you can't for him and some assets.

I don't think anyone is happy training their replacement, but Bledsoe has been more agreeable to adverse situations than anyone in the last few years. He never complained about the Dragic, Thomas, Knight multi guard thing, he gladly plays 2nd fiddle on offense to a kid who was 19 at the start of the season. I don't think Bledsoe cares too much about getting x amount of shots.

 

[3rdside]

Force a trade after his rookie season? How may I ask is he going to do that?!? We've never seen that in the history of the NBA much less in the current cba environment where it's even more difficult to leave your current team for years. All this gnashing of teeth over his being a lakers fan and his dads big mouth is hilarious (and lame) to me.

I don't know, it's why I asked the question.

After his rookie season, what happens, we can offer him the most money? I was thinking that if that's 'all' we can do and his marketing potential is so much larger in a place like LA then it's not much of a safe guard.

Again, just thoughts and questions.

 

[3rdside]

I like Fultz and Ball a lot, but saying either will be better than a top 40 player in the league (PER) before either has played one NBA minute does not seem correct to me. These guys are good but they're not Lebron. There's been plenty of surprise busts. I've never seen the Suns fan base underrate one of their own as much as Eric Bledsoe. I wonder if he was actually on the All-Star team this year, which he was well deserving of, would have changed his perception at all. I think it would have changed it significantly.


http://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics

Not sure about 'top 40' if he's alongside Kyle O'Quinn, Nerlens Noel and Kenneth Faried..

Everyone knows PG is the easiest position to replace and a PG averaging 20 and 6 that history seems to show does nothing for generating wins is surely nothing to get too excited about, not least because he's 6'1".

And 'working hard' and 'sacrificing for the team' are endearing traits but surely not enough if you thought you could draft a team re-defining PG like Ball or Fultz....

....UNLESS, of course, you thought Jackson was in their same league, which is a possibility.

I like Jackson and would be more than happy if we drafted him at, say, #3, meaning we keep Bledsoe, but if picking number #1 the imagination runs wild thinking what a guy like Ball would do for us with Booker and Chriss alongside him.

We would be fun as hell to watch which is also more than can be said about any team involving Bledsoe.

 

[3rdside]

Wait a second - if the numbers of shots and makes for the teams are right, the percentages are right. Maybe in Fultz's case the team shots includes games in which he didn't play but I don't see any real problem with that. Or maybe I just don't get what you and Elindholm are talking about.

I just took the team stats and then subtracted Ball and Fultz from them .... so they wouldn't show what the team shooting % is when they're not on the floor just what it is overall (with Ball / Fultz + without Ball / Fultz), although seeing as both played 35 minutes it it would be hard to measure with much confidence what the teams were like without each respective player.

 

[3rdside]

I suppose I should add (seeing as i haven't said enough about Ball, lol) that if you worry he's gonna be a problem in the half court, Booker is a pretty solid partner:

From .net (click on the image and then click on the smaller embedded images once in):

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[Russ Smith]

It is a good point made by Elindholm. Even casual observation shows what makes Ball special. He is an exceptional passer. He creates easy shots for teammates. I think this is why he is even in the conversation for the first or second pick.

I like Fultz because he is more athletic and he has more potential to score the ball. Plus he can do many of the things Ball does.

Actually what makes Ball exceptional IMO is he makes everyone better. It's not just that he gets them open shots although that's clearly part of it, it's that he completely changed the way UCLA played. UCLA was a selfish team the year before, unselfish with Lonzo.

As a Warrior fan I've seen that impact twice in my lifetime. The year Hardaway blew out his ACL they replaced him with Avery Johnson, Hardaway was the better player, but the Warriors were actually better as a team with AJ than Timmy because AJ moved the ball and Timmy dominated it. The same thing was true when they replaced Baron Davis, they got better because they no longer had a ball stopper at PG.

 

[3rdside]

Does he make those around him better should be THE base question for a PG:

KJ - yes
J Kidd - yes
Steve Nash - yes
Goran Dragic - leaning yes (but not in the same league)
Marbury - no
Bledsoe - no
Fultz - the evidence suggests no, or at least it's marginal (I thought I read the Huskies performed as well with him as without..)

Ball guarantees 50 win and fun seasons over and over again, Bledsoe and Jackson doesn't, and it wouldn't be Jackson's fault.

 

[Yuma]

I think Fultz will be one of those top 10 type NBA players. Could be Ball is better moving the ball. It comes down to me who has the most desire. Guys like Bird, Magic, and Jordan were really about their desire and push. Sure they had talent, but they REALLY wanted wins. Without that hard desire, I am reminded of Lamar Odem. Dude had size, skills, etc. I used to watch a lot of Laker games because they were in my viewing region, and about every third game Odem would do something on the court that made you go, how can this guy NOT dominate the game. He didn't have that push like a Jordan to bring each and every play. I always came away thinking, you put Jordan's brain in Lamar Odem and he would have been triple double every night, easy.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Why is pg the easiest position to replace?

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Hollinger has Fultz's projected PER to 28.47


Other top prospects:

Ball 25.16
Jackson 24.14
Tatum 22.73

 

[3rdside]

Why is pg the easiest position to replace?

You can be 5'3" to 7ft tall so your population size is larger ... it doesn't discriminate against height in other words.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I was thinking it was because, at younger ages, the best player on the team gets the ball in his hands. So there are just more that have played point than any other position.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I'm gonna go Slinslin on you and say this is insane.

All these players could be busts. There is nothing insane about saying a known commodity is a more sure thing than the unknown.

 

[3rdside]

Ball for me is about as bust free as it comes - fultz includedif he can't shoot, defend or run fast it doesn't matter as he's one of the great college passers.

I was thinking it was because, at younger ages, the best player on the team gets the ball in his hands. So there are just more that have played point than any other position.

Kind of the same thing I guess - more population to choose from (I just made up what I said above..)

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Go rewatch UCLA versus Kentucky and tell me Ball is "Bust Free". He was dominated by Malik Monk.

 

[Mainstreet]

Actually what makes Ball exceptional IMO is he makes everyone better. It's not just that he gets them open shots although that's clearly part of it, it's that he completely changed the way UCLA played. UCLA was a selfish team the year before, unselfish with Lonzo.

As a Warrior fan I've seen that impact twice in my lifetime. The year Hardaway blew out his ACL they replaced him with Avery Johnson, Hardaway was the better player, but the Warriors were actually better as a team with AJ than Timmy because AJ moved the ball and Timmy dominated it. The same thing was true when they replaced Baron Davis, they got better because they no longer had a ball stopper at PG.

Somewhere along the line I meant to mention, Ball has a multiplier effect in making his teammates better. This is huge.

 

[Mainstreet]

Hollinger has Fultz's projected PER to 28.47

Other top prospects:

Ball 25.16
Jackson 24.14
Tatum 22.73

So we have our draft order. That was easy.

The draft may actually play out this way.

 

[Russ Smith]

Go rewatch UCLA versus Kentucky and tell me Ball is "Bust Free". He was dominated by Malik Monk.

That was Fox not Monk, he guarded Monk for a bit in the 2nd half after Monk got hot.

That game if anything convinced me even more Ball over Fultz. Lonzo hurt his hamstring in the first half and played the whole 2nd half hurt. Tracy Murray does the UCLA games on radio he said when the team came out for their 2nd half warmups they all looked like their dog had just died, he tried to find out what was wrong and nobody would tell him. After the game several players told him Lonzo tweaked his hammy in the first half and that's why everyone was so down they weren't sure how long or how well he'd play. One of the LA reporters tweeted in the 2nd half that Lonzo had a pulled groin, someone from UCLA asked him to pull down the tweet do he deleted it. Said after the game they were told it was a hamstring and he assumed UCLA asked him to take it down because they didn't want Kentucky to know Ball was hurt.

Contrast that with Fultz who just basically sat because his knee was sore.

I'll take the kid that's not afraid to look bad and play hurt over the kid that just rests himself for the draft.

Admittedly 2 different situations one in the NCAA tourney, one on a terrible team with nothing to play for. To me that was the difference this year, one of them helped his team win 16 more games than the prior year, the other didn't have a significant impact on the w/l record of his team at all and then quit to rest himself for the draft.

 

[Chaplin]

That was Fox not Monk, he guarded Monk for a bit in the 2nd half after Monk got hot.

That game if anything convinced me even more Ball over Fultz. Lonzo hurt his hamstring in the first half and played the whole 2nd half hurt. Tracy Murray does the UCLA games on radio he said when the team came out for their 2nd half warmups they all looked like their dog had just died, he tried to find out what was wrong and nobody would tell him. After the game several players told him Lonzo tweaked his hammy in the first half and that's why everyone was so down they weren't sure how long or how well he'd play. One of the LA reporters tweeted in the 2nd half that Lonzo had a pulled groin, someone from UCLA asked him to pull down the tweet do he deleted it. Said after the game they were told it was a hamstring and he assumed UCLA asked him to take it down because they didn't want Kentucky to know Ball was hurt.

Contrast that with Fultz who just basically sat because his knee was sore.

I'll take the kid that's not afraid to look bad and play hurt over the kid that just rests himself for the draft.

Admittedly 2 different situations one in the NCAA tourney, one on a terrible team with nothing to play for. To me that was the difference this year, one of them helped his team win 16 more games than the prior year, the other didn't have a significant impact on the w/l record of his team at all and then quit to rest himself for the draft.

You should recuse yourself from this conversation, of COURSE you prefer Ball over Fultz. We all know that!

Fultz sat instead of playing in a meaningless game in a lost season. That doesn't bother me much. You're also assuming that he himself decided to sit and not the coaching staff. What insider information do you have? His best chance at success was always in the NBA, not college. Ball, though, had a real chance of going far into the NCAA tournament. So that argument doesn't really hold much water.

 

[Mainstreet]

All these players could be busts. There is nothing insane about saying a known commodity is a more sure thing than the unknown.

Of course, they all could be stars.

I understand where you are coming from, a bird in the hand versus two in a bush. Bledsoe is coming off his best season.

 

[Mainstreet]

Fox might turn out to be better than Fultz and Ball. I don't think there is a huge difference between these three PGs.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Fox might turn out to be better than Fultz and Ball. I don't think there is a huge difference between these three PGs.

Maybe...but GMs see a significant drop off between Ball and Fultz and the rest of the PGs.

BTW, people were throwing out their comparisons...here is mine:

Ball - Anfernee Hardaway
Fultz - Gary Payton

 

[Mainstreet]

I agree on that. If Bledsoe had another couple extra years on his contract I'd want to keep him around. His knees and age are overrated as perceived problems IMO. But when we take everything as a conglomeration (especially the contract) it's an uncertain future with him.

This is the conundrum going forward with Bledsoe. I'm not unhappy with him as many fans. My concern is can the Suns build with him being the PG.

 

[3rdside]

Maybe...but GMs see a significant drop off between Ball and Fultz and the rest of the PGs.

BTW, people were throwing out their comparisons...here is mine:

Ball - Anfernee Hardaway
Fultz - Gary Payton

Ball - Penny / Kidd cross
Fultz - Westbrook

 

[Mainstreet]

Maybe...but GMs see a significant drop off between Ball and Fultz and the rest of the PGs.

BTW, people were throwing out their comparisons...here is mine:

Ball - Anfernee Hardaway
Fultz - Gary Payton

It's certainly a tough call on these players. I don't think there is a huge drop-off until after #5 or #6. I really like Fox.

My 2 cents.

Ball - Jason Kidd

Fultz - Stephon Marbury