Matt Leinart wants another opportunity

[Shane]

and let me make something PERFECTLY CLEAR:

I in no way think Derek Anderson was the right call, the way we handled the QB situation last year was one of a complete and utter abomination. But the idea that Wiz simply didn't "like" Matt and had no reason not to is baseless IMO.

100% THIS!

 

[Duckjake]

or what about the Rams game where we had a 21-3 lead hen Warner got knocked out at half and we proceded to get like two first downs the rest of the game and the D had to have two late fourth quarter goal-line stands to preserve a 21-13 win against a 1-15 team.

So in the ultimate irony people want to go get the QB for the Rams who was 19-37-215 and an INT and couldn't get his team in the endzone twice from inside the AZ 10 in that game, leads his team to 3-13, 2-14, and 1-15 in consecutive years, despite having one of the best RBs in the NFL, instead.

 

[Cheesebeef]

So in the ultimate irony people want to go get the QB for the Rams who was 19-37-215 and an INT and couldn't get his team in the endzone twice from inside the AZ 10 in that game, leads his team to 3-13, 2-14, and 1-15 in consecutive years, despite having one of the best RBs in the NFL, instead.

i'm not one of those people. i want no part of that guy... never have, never will.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

and let me make something PERFECTLY CLEalAR:

I in no way think Derek Anderson was the right call, the way we handled the QB situation last year was one of a complete and utter abomination. But the idea that Wiz simply didn't "like" Matt and had no reason not to is baseless IMO.

Amen...even the most ardent Leinart critics wanted Matt to be the guy, and realized he was our best chance of maintaining the success we had under Warner. Despite all the kind words and praise of Whiz among others, and being in the system for many years, I always had that nagging fear that #7 just didn't have it. Between his performances over the last couple years, to seeing him in training camp, preseason, my fears were confirmed.

Now, we're destined to mediocrity at best until we find a decent qb. Such is life in the NFL.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

So in the ultimate irony people want to go get the QB for the Rams who was 19-37-215 and an INT and couldn't get his team in the endzone twice from inside the AZ 10 in that game, leads his team to 3-13, 2-14, and 1-15 in consecutive years, despite having one of the best RBs in the NFL, instead.

Sadly and most frighteningly, the only ones claiming this to be a good idea is the front office. Yuck. Even though I have little faith in him, I'd probably just as soon run out Skelator.

 

[Duckjake]

Duck, you want to tell me how many points the offense scored in those next two games? Probably not considering it was a COMBINED WHOPPING TOTAL OF 10, throwing for zero touchdowns and coughing up one fumble. so, you make the joke above, but actually he was VERY consistent... in making passes that wouldn't move the chains or score any points.

and then he continued on with that great consistency in the pre-season, completing a bunch of passes... that never netted first downs or points.

I'm not joking at all. If you look at Leinart's overall career in the NFL he has not been consistently horrible like Anderson or BSP but up and down.

QB ratings for games as a starter: 91.7, 88.6, 36.3, 51.7, 47.7, 101.7, 76, 100.3, 89.3, 51.4, 137.3, 41.1, 85.3, 52.1, 71.4, 47, and 88.1

If that's not inconsistent not horrible I don't know what is.

As for scoring and getting first downs considering what happened in 2010 especially with TH doing his 18 yard gain followed by 5 runs for a total of one yard, which is exactly what happened in the second half of that St.Louis game, I am beginning to doubt any QB other than Kurt Warner could do that in CKW's offense.

 

[moklerman]

Between his performances over the last couple years, to seeing him in training camp, preseason, my fears were confirmed.

Funny, but that's where I'm left thinking Leinart may still have a chance. Every QB who's been in Whis' Cardinal offense has been pretty lousy. Even Warner. Leinart's struggles in '10 don't really mean much considering how poorly all the other QB's played too. Anderson, who was no prize in Cleveland, played even worse in Arizona and he had Fitz to throw the ball to.

It is certainly not a QB friendly system.

 

[Duckjake]

Sadly and most frighteningly, the only ones claiming this to be a good idea is the front office. Yuck. Even though I have little faith in him, I'd probably just as soon run out Skelator.

I was under the impression that it was our HC who thought that was a good idea and it was the front office who didn't go along. Or do I have that backwards?

 

[Duckjake]

and let me make something PERFECTLY CLEAR:

I in no way think Derek Anderson was the right call, the way we handled the QB situation last year was one of a complete and utter abomination. But the idea that Wiz simply didn't "like" Matt and had no reason not to is baseless IMO.

But you don't like my idea that CKW did have a reason to let Leinart go, because Matt was too inconsistent with his down games offsetting the upside to such an extent that CKW wasn't willing to risk handing him the reigns?

 

[Cheesebeef]

But you don't like my idea that CKW did have a reason to let Leinart go, because Matt was too inconsistent with his down games offsetting the upside to such an extent that CKW wasn't willing to risk handing him the reigns?

i have no problem with that idea.

i think there was more to it... such as Matt not working with Fitz in the off-season when he was invited up to, the idea that he was playing not to lose in the pre-season and during training camp, etc. etc., grousing in the media and becoming a distraction... all of those were factors into jettisoning his ass off the team.

 

[Duckjake]

Amen...even the most ardent Leinart critics wanted Matt to be the guy, and realized he was our best chance of maintaining the success we had under Warner. Despite all the kind words and praise of Whiz among others, and being in the system for many years, I always had that nagging fear that #7 just didn't have it. Between his performances over the last couple years, to seeing him in training camp, preseason, my fears were confirmed.

Now, we're destined to mediocrity at best until we find a decent qb. Such is life in the NFL.

Funny, but that's where I'm left thinking Leinart may still have a chance. Every QB who's been in Whis' Cardinal offense has been pretty lousy. Even Warner. Leinart's struggles in '10 don't really mean much considering how poorly all the other QB's played too. Anderson, who was no prize in Cleveland, played even worse in Arizona and he had Fitz to throw the ball to.

It is certainly not a QB friendly system.

What if this happened? Leinart as Cheese points out couldn't move the chains or score leading CKW and staff to think Leinart doesn't have it. So they go with Anderson and Hall and Skelator because they see them as being more team players and the same thing happens because the problem is not just poor or rookie QBs it is also with the offense. Only Warner with his quick release and incredible accuracy could make it work.

CKW being a smart guy finally realizes this. So begins to work on making changes to the offense to correct the problem. http://helmet2helmet.net/2011/02/16/cardinals-name-mike-miller-offensive-coordinator/

But now because of the lockout he'll have less time to make the corrections and work with his young QBs.

Typical Cardinal luck.

 

[Cheesebeef]

It is certainly not a QB friendly system.

you're right and the proof is absolutely in the fact that his system allowed a rookie to post a 98.1 passer rating, and have a TD:INT ratio of 17:11, while being part of a team that went 15-1...

or that the next season, that second year QB posted a 98.5 rating with 17:9 TD:INT ratio, then had three GREAT playoff games, carrying the team through the AFC Playoffs with with 7:1, 250 yards per game and a 124 passer rating before he bombed in the Super Bowl... which i'm sure in your eyes means the system stinks even though for the overwhelming amount of the season, Ben played very well and was nails throughout the AFC playoffs winning three road games.

oh yeah, then his system took Kurt Warner, who was left for dead, and put him in the position to take the Cardinals to the Super Bowl and the playoffs the next year.

with struggles like those... you know QBs helping teams to all time best records, conference championships and Super Bowl wins, it's clearly evident that because Max Hall (shouldn't be in the league), Derek Anderson (one of the worst QBs of all time), John Skelton (rookie 5th round pick) and Matt Leinart all looked bad in the system that the system sucks and those guys running it had very little to do with it.

 

[Shane]

you're right and the proof is absolutely in the fact that his system allowed a rookie to post a 98.1 passer rating, and have a TD:INT ratio of 17:11, while being part of a team that went 15-1...

or that the next season, that second year QB posted a 98.5 rating with 17:9 TD:INT ratio, then had three GREAT playoff games, carrying the team through the AFC Playoffs with with 7:1, 250 yards per game and a 124 passer rating before he bombed in the Super Bowl... which i'm sure in your eyes means the system stinks even though for the overwhelming amount of the season, Ben played very well and was nails throughout the AFC playoffs winning three road games.

oh yeah, then his system took Kurt Warner, who was left for dead, and put him in the position to take the Cardinals to the Super Bowl and the playoffs the next year.

with struggles like those... you know QBs helping teams to all time best records, conference championships and Super Bowl wins, it's clearly evident that because Max Hall (shouldn't be in the league), Derek Anderson (one of the worst QBs of all time), John Skelton (rookie 5th round pick) and Matt Leinart all looked bad in the system that the system sucks and those guys running it had very little to do with it.

Awesome!

 

[moklerman]

you're right and the proof is absolutely in the fact that his system allowed a rookie to post a 98.1 passer rating, and have a TD:INT ratio of 17:11, while being part of a team that went 15-1...

Then why did he go away from that system and let Warner do what he was most comfortable with? Why did Warner struggle so much with that system? Is the system he's tried to run with the Cardinals the same as the one he had with the Steelers? Would that system work if it didn't have the defense, running game and o-line that those Steelers teams had?

I really can't remember a time where the base offense had any success under Whis. It was always a case of the no-huddle, 2-minute package getting a lead or coming in to save the day.

The sad part is, the most success that I can remember any of the Cardinals QB's having was Leinart in that Seattle game. Which wasn't spectacular but he actually got it to work well enough for a victory. After that, it was always Warner and the fire drill.

Man, it just irks me how perfectly it was all set up for last year. Leinart is obviously best when he's got a strong running game and he can distribute the ball and Hightower and Wells should have been primed for a shift to the running game by Whis and the Cardinals. They brought in Faneca, albeit a little too late, but it was all there for a shift to that Steelers type of football that Whis supposedly prefers.

 

[Duckjake]

you're right and the proof is absolutely in the fact that his system allowed a rookie to post a 98.1 passer rating, and have a TD:INT ratio of 17:11, while being part of a team that went 15-1...

or that the next season, that second year QB posted a 98.5 rating with 17:9 TD:INT ratio, then had three GREAT playoff games, carrying the team through the AFC Playoffs with with 7:1, 250 yards per game and a 124 passer rating before he bombed in the Super Bowl... which i'm sure in your eyes means the system stinks even though for the overwhelming amount of the season, Ben played very well and was nails throughout the AFC playoffs winning three road games.

oh yeah, then his system took Kurt Warner, who was left for dead, and put him in the position to take the Cardinals to the Super Bowl and the playoffs the next year.

with struggles like those... you know QBs helping teams to all time best records, conference championships and Super Bowl wins, it's clearly evident that because Max Hall (shouldn't be in the league), Derek Anderson (one of the worst QBs of all time), John Skelton (rookie 5th round pick) and Matt Leinart all looked bad in the system that the system sucks and those guys running it had very little to do with it.

Is CKW even running anywhere near the same offense they did in Pittsburgh? 358 passing attempts to 618 rushing BRs rookie season. 379 to 549 the SB year. A TE with 39 catches for 459 yards and 6 TDs! Looks like the exact opposite to me.

I also wonder how much better our boys would have done if the Cards had a top 10 Defense 11 years in a row.

Kurt Warner combined with Josh McCown to have the #1 passing offense in the NFL in 2005, so it wasn't like he was nothing until CKW arrived.

#1 in passing yards in the NFL with a leading rusher who averaged 2.9 yards per carry. Cardinal football is never dull.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Then why did he go away from that system and let Warner do what he was most comfortable with?

you make it seem like an offensive mind making adjustments to his system is somehow a NEGATIVE attribute. Warner was still running Wiz's plays... unless you think he was just drawing up plays in the dirt in the huddle.

we've seen QBs be successful in two different ways under two different systems with Wiz controlling the strings and we've seen a batch of awful QBs not be able to run anything. I think AT WORST you can say the jury's out on Wiz's "system" but to just label it as bad when QBs have had MAJOR success under his watch just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

 

[moklerman]

Awesome!

What's awesome is there's a very real chance that Whis just benefited from the offense that Mularkey put together. His offense was actually more productive and he had a used up Kordell Stewart and XFL-MVP Tommy Maddox running things.

What's just as awesome is in Roethlisberger's third year under Whisenhunt, he completed less than 60% of his passes and led the league in interceptions. I can certainly see why Whis would go after Anderson.

What's more, in '07 when Whis is gone, Roethlisberger has by far his best year as a pro. He puts up 32 TD(compared to 18 at his best under Whis) and has a 104 rating.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Man, it just irks me how perfectly it was all set up for last year.

LOL, of all the delusional things said on this board...

Losing the heart and soul of the offense, defense, and many other key components, man things were lined up beautifully! I'm shocked it didn't all work out!

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Cardinal football is never dull.

Ha, it got pretty dull last year.

 

[moklerman]

you make it seem like an offensive mind making adjustments to his system is somehow a NEGATIVE attribute. Warner was still running Wiz's plays... unless you think he was just drawing up plays in the dirt in the huddle.

we've seen QBs be successful in two different ways under two different systems with Wiz controlling the strings and we've seen a batch of awful QBs not be able to run anything. I think AT WORST you can say the jury's out on Wiz's "system" but to just label it as bad when QBs have had MAJOR success under his watch just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

You don't think Warner and Haley had more to do with it than Whis? I certainly do. Nothing from Whis' Pittsburgh days would suggest he would go to that type of offense. What he tried to run when he got to Arizona doesn't suggest that either. What he usually reverts to is nothing like what Warner wanted, pushed for and ultimately got to do.

Was Arizona running Warner's offense last year?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Kurt Warner combined with Josh McCown to have the #1 passing offense in the NFL in 2005, so it wasn't like he was nothing until CKW arrived.
.

how many times are you going to post this meaningless stat which was born out of the fact that we were always getting killed and throwing the ball a ton... while never scoring ANY points excepts FGs. i mean, the year we threw for the #1 offense in the league, we also had the #8 defense in the league... stats don't tell the whole story. Kurt had a whopping 11 tds with 14 turnovers and 5 more fumbles. dude was a shell of himself and then looked even worse the next season.

 

[moklerman]

LOL, of all the delusional things said on this board...

Losing the heart and soul of the offense, defense, and many other key components, man things were lined up beautifully! I'm shocked it didn't all work out!

We all know the Warner aerial attack was unique to him. If there ever was a perfect opportunity to shift to what Whis really wanted to do(Pittsburgh ball), it was last year.

Boldin was gone, Warner was gone and it was time to make the shift. They had a great 1-2 punch in the backfield and a QB who excelled in that type of offense in college. They even brought in an OG familiar with the exact system the Steelers ran when Whis was their OC.

I'd say not seeing the opportunity is just obtuse.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You don't think Warner and Haley had more to do with it than Whis? I certainly do.

Haley, the guy who when he ran his own offense on the Chiefs had passing attacks ranked 25th and 30th? After looking at those rankings, how can I not?!

of course you do. that allows you not to give Wiz credit for ANYTHING he's accomplished... even though in year one, it was WIZ who was the offensive coordinator when Warner flourished in the second half of the season and it was his playbook they were running.

Haley was OC in year two and continued on with that... and then we continued playing the same type of ball in year 3 without Haley.

and what kind of playbook did Haley run in KC? An ATROCIOUS one in his first year and then in year two, one that was a HUGE run-attack. Hardly the offense that Wiz ran here with Warner. seriously... they were ranked 25th in passing two years ago and 30th in passing last year. but somehow the guy who led THAT offense gets credit for our passing attack and Wiz doesn't? please tell me how that makes ANY sense.

Nothing from Whis' Pittsburgh days would suggest he would go to that type of offense. What he tried to run when he got to Arizona doesn't suggest that either.

again... WIZ WAS THE OC our first year when Warner exploded in the second half... Wiz was the OC in 2009 when Warner continued to play well... HALEY HAS NEVER RUN WHAT WE DID HERE IN KC.

Was Arizona running Warner's offense last year?

arizona wasn't running anything last year because they had no one to run anything.

sorry, but somehow putting the onus on Haley and warner is just ridiculous. Good offensive minds don't just have one limited playbook. they look at what they have in front of them and adjust accordingly. that's what wiz did here, until his epic brain fart of giving himself literally no QB who could run ANY system.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

We all know the Warner aerial attack was unique to him. If there ever was a perfect opportunity to shift to what Whis really wanted to do(Pittsburgh ball), it was last year.

Since we're on the subject of obtuse, do you realize what a contradiction this is? What people like you fail to understand is, Whiz is smart enough to realize that it's in his best interest to let his personnel dictate his offense. With an elite QB, elite receivers, and a good pass blocking OL, he gave up the Pittsburgh ground and pound quickly and was adept enough to realize his best chance of winning was to put the offense in Kurt's hands. (Which included making sure it stayed in his hands by cutting down his fumbles)

Obviously, Kurt deciding to retire left everyone in the organization with their pants on the ground. Here the Cards we're stuck with a team that was molded to Kurt's skills, and suddenly the foundation of the house was ripped out. Your delusions of grandeur about a roster tailor made for Matty are laughable.

They had a great 1-2 punch in the backfield

LOL, you must define great as something totally different from my understanding. Wells and Hightower? Neither is a top 15 RB. Great, my ass.

and a QB who excelled in that type of offense in college.

Your arguments get even more ridiculous as we go on here. Let's recreate USC all over again!

All we need is -
arguably the best college RB of all time
Lendale - another top 5 RB in college football that year
dominant talent at every position, and a superior roster to almost every team we play

Newsflash! This ain't college football, and these circumstances ain't gonna happen again.

Leinart's offense in college was:
1. hand off to Bush for massive gain
2. hand off to Lendale for massive gain
3. play action to wide open great receivers who are single covered at best

You're right though, if we could somehow recreate that scenario in the NFL, Matt will be back!

They even brought in an OG familiar with the exact system the Steelers ran when Whis was their OC.

Spectacular! An over the hill guard who is at best average at this point. It's stunning we didn't have multiple 1,000 yard rushers last year, since our offense was so tailor made for a transition to a power running team.

 

[kerouac9]

again... WIZ WAS THE OC our first year when Warner exploded in the second half... Wiz was the OC in 2009 when Warner continued to play well... HALEY HAS NEVER RUN WHAT WE DID HERE IN KC.

Why is this because Whis is somehow a QB guru and offensive genius instead of Kurt Warner getting to run his own offense when he was here? It is no secret that Kurt Warner was incredibly influential in putting together game plans and drawing up plays, and that Warner consistently changed plays from runs to passes during games.

Warner is here with Whis and Haley, and we run a Greatest Show on Turf variation. Haley leaves, and they run a ground-based offense in KC, while we run a Greatest Show on Turf variation and go deep into the playoffs. Warner leaves, and we run the Worst Show Imaginable offense and go 5-11. There's one consistent thing here.

Ben Roethlisberger runs a nice little offense in Pittsburgh, then Whis leaves and Ben Roethlisberger becomes one of the top 5 QBs in the NFL, and Ben R. bad-mouths him at the Super Bowl (essentially).

Whis is a genius for keeping a former NFL and Super Bowl MVP for three years, but he's been garbage at developing anyone behind him, including the very player whom he was brought here to develop.