Maybe letting Amare go wasn't such a bad idea

[AzStevenCal]

Barkley surely is an expert on defense and winning championships, considering all the Championships he won and defensive awards he received during his career. He also is a coaching expert, even though he has never been a coach. To his defense he has said many times that he is not an expert. He just has opinions, just like you and everyone else.

Add Chandler to the last Suns team that went to the WCF, Amare and the Suns probably win the Championship.

We would have NEVER won a Championship with him as our starting Center and didn't.

That is my expert opinion.

It obviously disagrees with your opinion. So be it.

Without a doubt, we didn't. But, I don't believe the fact we didn't proves that we wouldn't have eventually.

I know I'm in the minority on this but I think we would have won a championship even with Amare as our starting center. Keep that Amare/Marion/Nash nucleus together with Joe Johnson and I think we probably win a couple of rings especially if Amare stays healthy.

It's not the easiest way to win a championship. You have a much greater margin of error if you have a strong defensive team that is anchored down low but I still believe it would have won it all. Even the team with Raja Bell would have picked up a ring IMO had Amare remained healthy or if our coaching staff had stressed player responsibility in the event of an on-court melee.

Steve

 

[BC867]

Without a doubt, we didn't. But, I don't believe the fact we didn't proves that we wouldn't have eventually.

I know I'm in the minority on this but I think we would have won a championship even with Amare as our starting center.

As I have posted before, it was not just a case of Amar'e playing C instead of PF. It was the Suns practice, and history, of playing a PF at C, with a SF playing the other power position.

Amar'e as the only power player in the lineup is what doomed us.

Good think for Barkley has was actually only 6'4 1/2" or he probably would have found himself playing Center alongside two Small Forwards, as Amar'e did.

 

[Lorenzo]

yes I think if amare was paired with a quality center in phx they would have won a ring. hell if the suns ever would have had a deep bench they may have won one because nash and amare might have been enough star power. they were so close those 2 years they lost to SA I just think SA had more depth(slightly and benefited from suspensions and key injuries to suns players). chandler and a very deep team did wonders for dirk nowitzki who is a hybrid power forward in some ways like amare(eventhough dirk is more of an iso guy and less of a high flyer). and i would not consider tyson an elite center. I would say he is quality when you look at his defense and clean up baskets around the rim.

a player like gortat paired with amare, nash, marion, and a bench would have led to a title.

 

[JustWinBaby]

yes I think if amare was paired with a quality center in phx they would have won a ring. hell if the suns ever would have had a deep bench they may have won one because nash and amare might have been enough star power. they were so close those 2 years they lost to SA I just think SA had more depth(slightly and benefited from suspensions and key injuries to suns players). chandler and a very deep team did wonders for dirk nowitzki who is a hybrid power forward in some ways like amare(eventhough dirk is more of an iso guy and less of a high flyer). and i would not consider tyson an elite center. I would say he is quality when you look at his defense and clean up baskets around the rim.

a player like gortat paired with amare, nash, marion, and a bench would have led to a title.

I agree

 

[cly2tw]

yes I think if amare was paired with a quality center in phx they would have won a ring. hell if the suns ever would have had a deep bench they may have won one because nash and amare might have been enough star power. they were so close those 2 years they lost to SA I just think SA had more depth(slightly and benefited from suspensions and key injuries to suns players). chandler and a very deep team did wonders for dirk nowitzki who is a hybrid power forward in some ways like amare(eventhough dirk is more of an iso guy and less of a high flyer). and i would not consider tyson an elite center. I would say he is quality when you look at his defense and clean up baskets around the rim.

a player like gortat paired with amare, nash, marion, and a bench would have led to a title.

+1

It's quite sad that people often look at a player in an isolated situation and claim this and that. As you put it, the Suns have been quite close to winning a title a few times when Amare was here. We had the right core in Amare/Nash. But the surrounding conditions like bench, coaching philosophy etc. doomed it. In fact, I'd say Suns would have a better chance than Mavs to win the title last year, had they had Amare plus say Gortat (in exchange for LB), the way they looked in the playoffs of 2010.

Amare got blocked a lot the past two years, simply because he had to get used to not having as much space as when paired with Nash. And as DA surely always would do, he ran Amare to exhaustion in regular season last year, just as he did Nash on the Suns. The spacing got worse this year with Melo. And as someone said, he put up 20 pounds. Not only is he slower, but his shooting touch for jumper is completely screwed, so that he is even more forced to force things around the basket. He is only recently regaining some shooting touch. And with finally a PG in Lin playing, he will rediscover his offensive efficiency soon.

 

[Budden]

Add Chandler to the last Suns team that went to the WCF, Amare and the Suns probably win the Championship.

We would have NEVER won a Championship with him as our starting Center and didn't.

That is my expert opinion.

It obviously disagrees with your opinion. So be it.

Amare at center was FAR less of a problem than Shawn Marion at power forward. But no NBA roster is perfect, and EVERY player has shortcomings that the coaching staff has to do its best to overcome, by putting playing a style of basketball that can neutralize some of those shortcomings and take as much advantage s possible of the teams' collective strengths.

You can dog amare or D'Antoni or whoever as much as you want, but besides Steve Nash, those two guys have more to do with the Suns' success over the lat decade than anyone else.

One more thing: the job of your franchise player is to play basketball games. Over the course of an 82-game season, your players get worn down a bit. That's why every team enters the playoffs with a bunch of banged up players. Fatigue is not a Mike D'Antomi creation. Many coaches have had all-star players, and many of them have won championships.

 

[JustWinBaby]

Amare at center was FAR less of a problem than Shawn Marion at power forward. But no NBA roster is perfect, and EVERY player has shortcomings that the coaching staff has to do its best to overcome, by putting playing a style of basketball that can neutralize some of those shortcomings and take as much advantage s possible of the teams' collective strengths.

You can dog amare or D'Antoni or whoever as much as you want, but besides Steve Nash, those two guys have more to do with the Suns' success over the lat decade than anyone else.

One more thing: the job of your franchise player is to play basketball games. Over the course of an 82-game season, your players get worn down a bit. That's why every team enters the playoffs with a bunch of banged up players. Fatigue is not a Mike D'Antomi creation. Many coaches have had all-star players, and many of them have won championships.

For the record

I am not suggesting that Amare, D'Antonni or Shawn were the reasons for us not winning a Championhip.

I am convinced that the front office was the main reason.

With one additional player capable of playing center alongside Amre at PF while allowing Shawn to play SF would have been huge. We still could have played SPEED BALL with Amare at the 5 and Shawan at the 4 as a change of pace.

For one reason or other we never found that role playing 5 we needed.

Steven Hunter appeared to be that guy, KT did some good things and Robin Lopez did well when not injured. Those guys were cut when the price got too high and not replaced.

The thing that really bothers me about the D'Antoni era is the way people dish him on playing Nash, Amare and Shawn too many minutes. They were his stars and he played them. He did not play them any more minutes than any of the other stars in the league. The perception of a few have made it seem that he played them more minutes than other coaches played their STARS. It just is not true.

We did not lose Championships due to Coach D playing those guys too many minutes. We lost for a wide variety of reasons but not that.

 

[Lorenzo]

Yeah I don't think the suns players/coaches did anything wrong from 2004-2006/07(before the shactus trade). During that period they were right at the top. Just like the mavs problems for many years there was just another team like the spurs(or the lakers) that were always a little deeper. those teams that won titles(spurs/lakers/pistons) were deeper teams. they all had stars, but they also had depth. they were full of guys who knew their role and could compete with anyone. the suns had depth, but not as much as those teams that they lost to. combine that lack of depth with untimely injuries(joe johnson/amare) and suspensions and that was really the only reason that they didn't win a ring. and maybe they could have put more emphasis on defense, but I think they went the wrong direction by taking a complete 180 degree turn for shaq thinking that they could change their identity completely which led to their fall.

I don't think you can look back and blame the players that were there because all of those guys were good. I look at a guy like shawn marion that phx ran out of town and this is a dude that the mavs could not have won a ring without. everyone is talking about tyson chandler(my ass that dude was a free lancer on the mavericks roster playing next to dirk). shawn marion is the dude that guards kobe/lebron/dwade/durant etc. and all of those guys struggled to score on him in the 4th quarter of tight games. When I look back on those suns teams I think they let tough losses in the playoffs get the best of them and they blew up the team too quick. if they would have been patient and added more quality bench guys to their team they would have won a ring eventually. because the spurs and lakers got really old and slow and the window is still open in the league. the west is open and the eastern conference teams are limited. everyone thinks that the heat are going to magically win rings, but if they run into another deep team like the mavericks they will lose again and again. they have not big guys to defend and rebound in the paint as well. It will be interesting to see who gets dwight howard.

 

[JustWinBaby]

Yeah I don't think the suns players/coaches did anything wrong from 2004-2006/07(before the shactus trade). During that period they were right at the top. Just like the mavs problems for many years there was just another team like the spurs(or the lakers) that were always a little deeper. those teams that won titles(spurs/lakers/pistons) were deeper teams. they all had stars, but they also had depth. they were full of guys who knew their role and could compete with anyone. the suns had depth, but not as much as those teams that they lost to. combine that lack of depth with untimely injuries(joe johnson/amare) and suspensions and that was really the only reason that they didn't win a ring. and maybe they could have put more emphasis on defense, but I think they went the wrong direction by taking a complete 180 degree turn for shaq thinking that they could change their identity completely which led to their fall.

I don't think you can look back and blame the players that were there because all of those guys were good. I look at a guy like shawn marion that phx ran out of town and this is a dude that the mavs could not have won a ring without. everyone is talking about tyson chandler(my ass that dude was a free lancer on the mavericks roster playing next to dirk). shawn marion is the dude that guards kobe/lebron/dwade/durant etc. and all of those guys struggled to score on him in the 4th quarter of tight games. When I look back on those suns teams I think they let tough losses in the playoffs get the best of them and they blew up the team too quick. if they would have been patient and added more quality bench guys to their team they would have won a ring eventually. because the spurs and lakers got really old and slow and the window is still open in the league. the west is open and the eastern conference teams are limited. everyone thinks that the heat are going to magically win rings, but if they run into another deep team like the mavericks they will lose again and again. they have not big guys to defend and rebound in the paint as well. It will be interesting to see who gets dwight howard.

That is exactly how I see it.

The value of Marion defending the best wing players in the league was a huge loss. Then we got rid of Raja and Boris because they didn't like Porter. We lost another good defender and playmaker that fit perfectly with Nash.

As you have stated and I have previously we should have kept them and added a player or 2 to support them, rather than blow it up.

The front office cost this franchise a chance to win the Championships with several poor player decisions, not the players.

 

[Phrazbit]

That is exactly how I see it.

The value of Marion defending the best wing players in the league was a huge loss. Then we got rid of Raja and Boris because they didn't like Porter. We lost another good defender and playmaker that fit perfectly with Nash.

As you have stated and I have previously we should have kept them and added a player or 2 to support them, rather than blow it up.

The front office cost this franchise a chance to win the Championships with several poor player decisions, not the players.

The Marion trade was dumb. But I liked the Raja and Boris trade, and it certainly paid off. Dudley and Richardson were invaluable, and without Richardson they never get Gortat. While I loved Raja, his wheels came off, and Diaw is slowly eating his way into oblivion.

 

[JustWinBaby]

The Marion trade was dumb. But I liked the Raja and Boris trade, and it certainly paid off. Dudley and Richardson were invaluable, and without Richardson they never get Gortat. While I loved Raja, his wheels came off, and Diaw is slowly eating his way into oblivion.

On the surface it looks like the Raja & Boris trade for JRich and Dudley was a good one. Richardson surely is and was more talented than Raja but Raja was a better defender even though he was slipping. Boris was frustrating as hell and I often wanted to throw things at the TV. However he was a play maker and helped keep the ball moving with Nash on the bench.

Most importantly Management again tried to update the core rather than ADD to the core.

This happened because Steve Kerr thought he knew more about coaching than Coach D'Antoni. He hired the great Terry Porter, the rest is history.

We just needed an ADDITION or 2. They did nto have to be max players, just legit role players for reasonable contracts.

What is amazing is how people try to lay all the blame on D'Antoni for poor GM decisions. He was only GM for a short period of time, and is the popular whipping boy.

Kerr is the one that ripped the heart and soul out of 7 SOS while trading almost all of the key players, trading several draft choices and making horrible decisions on whom he did draft. His reign was basically a disaster.

 

[cly2tw]

Yeah I don't think the suns players/coaches did anything wrong from 2004-2006/07(before the shactus trade). During that period they were right at the top. Just like the mavs problems for many years there was just another team like the spurs(or the lakers) that were always a little deeper. those teams that won titles(spurs/lakers/pistons) were deeper teams. they all had stars, but they also had depth. they were full of guys who knew their role and could compete with anyone. the suns had depth, but not as much as those teams that they lost to. combine that lack of depth with untimely injuries(joe johnson/amare) and suspensions and that was really the only reason that they didn't win a ring. and maybe they could have put more emphasis on defense, but I think they went the wrong direction by taking a complete 180 degree turn for shaq thinking that they could change their identity completely which led to their fall.

I don't think you can look back and blame the players that were there because all of those guys were good. I look at a guy like shawn marion that phx ran out of town and this is a dude that the mavs could not have won a ring without. everyone is talking about tyson chandler(my ass that dude was a free lancer on the mavericks roster playing next to dirk). shawn marion is the dude that guards kobe/lebron/dwade/durant etc. and all of those guys struggled to score on him in the 4th quarter of tight games. When I look back on those suns teams I think they let tough losses in the playoffs get the best of them and they blew up the team too quick. if they would have been patient and added more quality bench guys to their team they would have won a ring eventually. because the spurs and lakers got really old and slow and the window is still open in the league. the west is open and the eastern conference teams are limited. everyone thinks that the heat are going to magically win rings, but if they run into another deep team like the mavericks they will lose again and again. they have not big guys to defend and rebound in the paint as well. It will be interesting to see who gets dwight howard.

Well, dumping Kurt Thomas and not playing him more minutes were a major mistake, that's ascribable to DA's philosophy of 7-men rotation. In all those playoffs, Nash could have been freshier and Raja/JJ might not have injured the way the did, had DA been willing to accept a slightly lower seed to keep the starters healthier for the playoffs like Popovich regularly does. I'd blame DA quite a lot for myopia.
Marion was a very good player but not worth the max contract he'd be demanding on the Suns.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Well, dumping Kurt Thomas and not playing him more minutes were a major mistake, that's ascribable to DA's philosophy of 7-men rotation. In all those playoffs, Nash could have been freshier and Raja/JJ might not have injured the way the did, had DA been willing to accept a slightly lower seed to keep the starters healthier for the playoffs like Popovich regularly does. I'd blame DA quite a lot for myopia.
Marion was a very good player but not worth the max contract he'd be demanding on the Suns.

That's hindsight and nothing more. They didn't play absurd minutes, no one on this team really has since Kidd left. You can make the case that Nash was overused but only because he's had a history of wearing down as the season closes. His minutes weren't really out of line with other great players in the league.

And having a Tim Duncan on your team allows you to do a lot of things that other coaches can't get away with. For a team like the Suns, regular season wins and home court advantage mattered too much to just cavalierly sit key players just because of the off chance that one of them might suffer a freak injury if they were on the court more.

Also, he didn't have a 7 player philosophy. He had 6 (sometimes 7) starters and so the deep end of the bench was given fewer minutes but the starters were never over-used in comparison to the rest of the league and there was almost always an 8th player that got typical bench minutes.

I think a lot of Mike's rotation problems happened because players such as Amare and Marion and Johnson wanted the stats. That first year when we came out of the blocks blowing everyone out had a lot to do with the fact that we stopped going to the bench as often. They soon realized that blowouts led to them logging 28 minutes instead of 38 minutes and kept them from putting up the kind of numbers that bring the ESPN attention not to mention the big bucks come contract time.

Steve

 

[cly2tw]

That's hindsight and nothing more. They didn't play absurd minutes, no one on this team really has since Kidd left. You can make the case that Nash was overused but only because he's had a history of wearing down as the season closes. His minutes weren't really out of line with other great players in the league.

And having a Tim Duncan on your team allows you to do a lot of things that other coaches can't get away with. For a team like the Suns, regular season wins and home court advantage mattered too much to just cavalierly sit key players just because of the off chance that one of them might suffer a freak injury if they were on the court more.

Also, he didn't have a 7 player philosophy. He had 6 (sometimes 7) starters and so the deep end of the bench was given fewer minutes but the starters were never over-used in comparison to the rest of the league and there was almost always an 8th player that got typical bench minutes.

I think a lot of Mike's rotation problems happened because players such as Amare and Marion and Johnson wanted the stats. That first year when we came out of the blocks blowing everyone out had a lot to do with the fact that we stopped going to the bench as often. They soon realized that blowouts led to them logging 28 minutes instead of 38 minutes and kept them from putting up the kind of numbers that bring the ESPN attention not to mention the big bucks come contract time.

Steve

Amare broke down in the last year's playoffs too, again under DA. As the topic of thread is whether we should have retained him 2010, I just wanted to say that his condition was excellent for 2010 playoffs partly due to the fact that he played less minutes coming back from the eye surgery issue. We lost to Lakers partially due to Nash already broke down before the PO even started, so that not much P&R could be worked out between him and Amare. So, if we don't solve this body breakdown issue from the stars of the team, retaining Amare alone might not have been enough though.

 

[Lorenzo]

Well, dumping Kurt Thomas and not playing him more minutes were a major mistake, that's ascribable to DA's philosophy of 7-men rotation. In all those playoffs, Nash could have been freshier and Raja/JJ might not have injured the way the did, had DA been willing to accept a slightly lower seed to keep the starters healthier for the playoffs like Popovich regularly does. I'd blame DA quite a lot for myopia.
Marion was a very good player but not worth the max contract he'd be demanding on the Suns.

I think you are right about marion's contract in phx. and for many years when I lived there I talked to suns fans and said they expected way too much from him offensively. phoenix overhyped his offensive abilities. a lot of his offense came from nash. shawn was able to average 20 points a game because of steve's play and the phoenix system of run and gun. don't get me wrong, shawn can score, but he is not a great scorer.

But I think marion still has a big contract. I think the contract in phx went hand in hand with his role there. marion was billed in phx as an all star(and he was), but they expected him to carry the team on both ends. he was their best defender and when they lost games people blasted him when he didn't score enough. he has never been a great scorer. he gets easy baskets, hustle points, and he can post up smaller guys and finish near the rim. but his overall skill set and athletic ability is invaluable to any team. I just think he had too much pressure on him in phoenix and took too much blame. and a lot of that was because of his max contract and perception. in dallas he still makes a lot of money, but his role offensively is complimentary. and it works.

 

[BC867]

The Suns philosophy of playing your five best players regardless of position was the culprit. A front line of Amar'e at Center and Marion at Power Forward was just not competitive, especially in the post-season. A Power Forward, three Wings and a Point Guard is hardly a playoff powerhouse.

That is why Marion had to go. It put too much pressure on Amar'e as the only big man on the court for us, when other teams have two.

 

[cly2tw]

The Suns philosophy of playing your five best players regardless of position was the culprit. A front line of Amar'e at Center and Marion at Power Forward was just not competitive, especially in the post-season. A Power Forward, three Wings and a Point Guard is hardly a playoff powerhouse.

That is why Marion had to go. It put too much pressure on Amar'e as the only big man on the court for us, when other teams have two.

Not only that. Marion's contract is too huge for Suns to get talent somewhere else. Hypothetically, though hindsight, replacing his with Dudley and Gortat in their current contracts with their current level of play, Suns would have had better chance to win.

In summer 2010, Suns could have hypotheticaly pulled this team:

Gortat/RLopez/Amare//Frye/Hill/Dudley/JRich/Nash/Dragic

simply by matching Amare's contract from NY and trading LB for Gortat. They'd still have the MLE to spend, but knowing Sarver it won't be used. Given Amare's performance last year, my claim is this team would have had an equal shot at the title as Mavs and Heats.

 

[SirStefan32]

In summer 2010, Suns could have hypotheticaly pulled this team:

Gortat/RLopez/Amare//Frye/Hill/Dudley/JRich/Nash/Dragic

simply by matching Amare's contract from NY and trading LB for Gortat. They'd still have the MLE to spend, but knowing Sarver it won't be used. Given Amare's performance last year, my claim is this team would have had an equal shot at the title as Mavs and Heats.

Why would Orlando trade Gortat for LB?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Amare broke down in the last year's playoffs too, again under DA. As the topic of thread is whether we should have retained him 2010, I just wanted to say that his condition was excellent for 2010 playoffs partly due to the fact that he played less minutes coming back from the eye surgery issue. We lost to Lakers partially due to Nash already broke down before the PO even started, so that not much P&R could be worked out between him and Amare. So, if we don't solve this body breakdown issue from the stars of the team, retaining Amare alone might not have been enough though.

You are re-writing history here. We lost to the Lakers because they were a better team AND because Amare was having his worst postseason since he joined the NBA. I know how much you hate Nash and always make him the scapegoat but are you seriously going to tell us that Steve's injuries (or Steve's exhaustion) is the reason Amare couldn't rebound or play defense during the playoffs that year?

Nash was definitely playing injured and he struggled a bit at times, fortunately Dragic offset that by playing his best ball in his short Suns career. Amare was a shadow of the player he had been during the second half of that season and he was a shadow of the player he normally is come playoff time. Look it up, those are facts (well, mostly facts, shadow might be a bit of hyperbole).

Steve

 

[JustWinBaby]

You are re-writing history here. We lost to the Lakers because they were a better team AND because Amare was having his worst postseason since he joined the NBA. I know how much you hate Nash and always make him the scapegoat but are you seriously going to tell us that Steve's injuries (or Steve's exhaustion) is the reason Amare couldn't rebound or play defense during the playoffs that year?

Nash was definitely playing injured and he struggled a bit at times, fortunately Dragic offset that by playing his best ball in his short Suns career. Amare was a shadow of the player he had been during the second half of that season and he was a shadow of the player he normally is come playoff time. Look it up, those are facts (well, mostly facts, shadow might be a bit of hyperbole).

Steve

Typical

Eveyone can be criticized other than Steve Nash.

Steve has struggled for the past 2 or 3 years prior to this one at winning time. That is how I and others have seen him. I guess that opinion is not allowed. Previously he was money in the clutch but in 2010 he just was not himself. He probably had an injury that was holding him back. It is hard to tell because he does not complain and wants to play every night. Unfortunately some nights his body will not allow him.

My biggest criticsim of Nash is that he does not shoot enough. I undertand team play, getting everyone involved etc etc. However he is the best shooter in the history of the NBA and is the guy I want taking the winning shot if at all possible.

With the team he has around him this year he needs to be more selfish to give us a chance to win. He is playing the best ball he has played in awhile, amazing. That is a pretty high standard to exceed.

Unfortunately he is screwing up our draft position.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Typical

Eveyone can be criticized other than Steve Nash.

Steve has struggled for the past 2 or 3 years prior to this one at winning time. That is how I and others have seen him. I guess that opinion is not allowed. Previously he was money in the clutch but in 2010 he just was not himself. He probably had an injury that was holding him back. It is hard to tell because he does not complain and wants to play every night. Unfortunately some nights his body will not allow him.

My biggest criticsim of Nash is that he does not shoot enough. I undertand team play, getting everyone involved etc etc. However he is the best shooter in the history of the NBA and is the guy I want taking the winning shot if at all possible.

With the team he has around him this year he needs to be more selfish to give us a chance to win. He is playing the best ball he has played in awhile, amazing. That is a pretty high standard to exceed.

Unfortunately he is screwing up our draft position.

Typical? Of what? I was and still am one of the biggest Amare fans on this board. BUT, to state that we lost against the Lakers because of Nash is just unreasonable. The player who played beneath their level the most during those playoffs was Amare and it wasn't even close. It was the worst I've ever seen him play defense, his rebounding numbers were the lowest of his playoff career and IIRC his scoring was well below his playoff averages.

You might want to do a little research on this forum before you start lumping people into classes. I have no problem with criticizing Nash but I get sick of reading over and again when someone tries to build up one player (or coach) by ripping someone else. I like Nash, I really liked Amare, I liked Marion, I liked D'antoni, I pretty much like anyone that represents the Suns well even once they move on. I'm a Suns fan first though, long before I'm a fan of any single player or coach.

So, instead of the rhetoric, what do you disagree with in my post. Did you think Amare played great against Portland, San Antonio or LA? Did you think the blame for that defeat fell on an injured point guard rather than an underperforming Amare? If you did, go back and watch the games and explain what he was doing on defense. He was horrid in that regard. Or, go back and look at the stats and explain why his numbers were down so much from the season that just ended and why they were down so much from his career postseason numbers and explain to me how all of that was Steve's fault (as was suggested by the poster I was responding to).

Steve

 

[Phrazbit]

If we want to assign blame for not doing better in the 2010 post season then Nash has to be about 10th on the list. Amare was a disaster. He was so bad that we were routinely benching him in important situations and reaping benefits from the move.

Next on the list I would plop Channing Frye, who couldnt hit the broad side of a barn for much of the run and then compounded the problem by removing himself from the offense for stretches.

Nash averaged 18-10 on 52% shooting, his 2nd highest playoff shooting % of his career.

But that Amare's play (and quotes) during that playoff run soured me on him as much as anything. After that I didnt give a crap if they kept him or not. The Lakers had the better team, but if any Suns player wet the bed when it mattered then it was Amare leaving a bigger stain than the rest of the team combined.

 

[BC867]

... if any Suns player wet the bed when it mattered then it was Amare leaving a bigger stain than the rest of the team combined.

So Amar'e slept like a baby, huh. 'Cried all night and wet the bed.

 

[cly2tw]

You are re-writing history here. We lost to the Lakers because they were a better team AND because Amare was having his worst postseason since he joined the NBA. I know how much you hate Nash and always make him the scapegoat but are you seriously going to tell us that Steve's injuries (or Steve's exhaustion) is the reason Amare couldn't rebound or play defense during the playoffs that year?

Nash was definitely playing injured and he struggled a bit at times, fortunately Dragic offset that by playing his best ball in his short Suns career. Amare was a shadow of the player he had been during the second half of that season and he was a shadow of the player he normally is come playoff time. Look it up, those are facts (well, mostly facts, shadow might be a bit of hyperbole).

Steve

I'm perplexed that you needed to paint it as a Nash vs. Amare thing. Well, Lakers was a better team as a result of their winning the series, but Suns didn't have the bread and butter of their offense called Nash-Amare PnR. True or false? Are You blaming Amare for not stepping up to the challenge of leading a team without a healthy Nash to a much better outcome? If so, you certainly have right. But it's another issue. I was not arguing for keeping Amare without Nash. On the contrary, I was arguing to keep both and both fresh for PO.

Why would Orlando trade Gortat for LB?

Replace Gortat with some other bigman, the argument is the same. But specifically, a three way with the Raptors involving Turkoglu and other compensations was conceivable.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'm perplexed that you needed to paint it as a Nash vs. Amare thing. Well, Lakers was a better team as a result of their winning the series, but Suns didn't have the bread and butter of their offense called Nash-Amare PnR. True or false? Are You blaming Amare for not stepping up to the challenge of leading a team without a healthy Nash to a much better outcome? If so, you certainly have right. But it's another issue. I was not arguing for keeping Amare without Nash. On the contrary, I was arguing to keep both and both fresh for PO.

Actually, I responded to your post because that is exactly what you did. Go back and read your post. You paint Amare as something he wasn't and claim that we lost in large part because the pick and roll didn't work due to Nash. Look at their career stats and you'll see that Nash came MUCH closer to playing to his level than Amare did. Forget the offense. If Amare had rebounded at his normal rate and simply played his typical mediocre defense, we may well have won that series.

Steve