McCown vs. King

[Sam Wise]

This thread makes me shudder a bit. Let's take the good and the bad from both QB's and compare them.

Experience: This goes to King, he's been in the league longer and does have a very nice winning %. However, he was usually playing with a lead behind one of the most dominant defenses in NFL History. He did make good decisions a refelcted by his TD to INT ratio.

Arm Strength: McCown hands down. King has never been known for his arm strength. Despite what some have said I have seen McCown make some very good deep passes. King is better on the medium and short passes, but McCown has decent touch in those area's and will get better.

Size: MCown is 6'3", King 6'1" not a huge difference.

Mobility: This is close, McCown is faster, but King is a smarter runner. I Hope they teach Josh to slide or he won't last long even if he is the starter.

Game Smarts: King makes good decisions, but he has a lead most of the time. This does not detract from him though. McCown made some good decisions last year, oddly 3 of his 6 INTs were of the receivers hands. The only one that really amde me cringe was the pick he threw to Minter vs. Carolina. Consider this, McCown started 4 game last year he psosted only a 1-3 record, but he had our defense behind him, enough said. Hi 4 game states were 70-118 5 TDs 2 INTs. He was sacked 25 times in that span and fumbled 7 times. I know our Oline was terrible, but that would have been 100 sacks over a whole season. It's not his fault, butJosh needs to read the pocket better.

Toughness: J Mc is a tough kid, all you have to do is look at the hit's he took in the Seattle and Minnesota games. He got back up after each one he better learn to slide though. King has remained fairly healthy and has only fumble 8 times in his 6 year career.

Grit: One knock on King has been that he folds when his teams need him the most. McCown has that air about him though that no matter what he will try everything he can to win. Antother QB had this trait and while not even in the same class as, McCown has shown a small amount of the grit that made John Elway great.

If I had to chose I would go with McCown, He has shown somethings that I want to see more of.

 

[Pariah]

I'm glad we have King on the roster, but I hope he's like my car insurance--I hope we never have to use him.

Josh needs seasoning; he won't get that sitting on the bench.

 

[seesred]

I don't know where this all comers from except that a couple of words from Q in Tampa and King in Tampa as well. Now Mike J at KDUS says that this might come about. I think MJ got his info from King who got his info from Q and the statement that you never know kinda way that King might start before the season is over. Heck he is the number two and Josh may go down or have a few bad games that would dictate that change. But, UNless the thing is in the old crapper IMO MCCown has the rock!

GBR
40

 

[DBACH1]

McCown all the way!!! (to the Superbowl hopefully)

 

[chickenhead]

King has more experience, but he only appeared in 3 games last year to McCown's 10. 9 games since 2001 compared to McCown's 12 since 2002. He's not a green, but he's definitely going back to the drawing board.

 

[cardsunsfan]

I hope McCown stays the start because I think he has the most potential if his heads on straight

 

[NJYAJ09]

King is getting cocky... he thinks that hes gonna get him the starting QB job... I don't think thats gonna happen.

 

[chickenhead]

Well, at least King is saying that he thinks he'll win the job, not that he deserves it. If he wins it, I'll be behind him 100% because he'll have earned it. That said, I would like to see what McCown can do as season-starter rather than replacement starter.

 

[This_Guy]

This thread makes me shudder a bit.

Again, I don't get this? You would be completely comfortable and confidant with Josh McCown as the starter?

Experience: This goes to King, he's been in the league longer and does have a very nice winning %. However, he was usually playing with a lead behind one of the most dominant defenses in NFL History. He did make good decisions a refelcted by his TD to INT ratio.

Let's break down some of the facts here.

Pop quiz: Which of the following QBs has the most starts in the NFL?
a) Chad Pennington
b) Marc Bulger
c) Jake Delhomme
d) Shaun King

Answer: D

Also, to the point about playing with a lead? This is another example of King's (many) accomplishments being downplayed. Here's another fact, King started every game for the Bucs in 2000. That season, the Bucs set their franchise record for points per game in a season (24.3 ppg), a record that HAS NOT been broken yet, not even close. King accounted for 23 TDs (18 pass, 5 rush) which is the same number that Tom Brady accounted for in 2003.

And while everyone will still contend that the defense won those games, the Bucs defense in 2000 finished 9th in the NFL, their worst overall ranking in the league in any year with Sapp-Brooks-Lynch playing together.

Arm strength and size? Irrelevant. Either your arm is NFL level or not, and both McCown and King have that arm. Ryan Leaf had a great arm and size. Joe Montana and Tom Brady do not.

Mobility: This is close, McCown is faster, but King is a smarter runner. I Hope they teach Josh to slide or he won't last long even if he is the starter.

Kudos to you for realizing that this is close. You've correctly identified that McCown has better straight-line speed, but King is a very very good runner.

Game Smarts: I think you'll find that King has fantastic game smarts. It's what he's known for. King is a "gamer". McCown will lose this category automatically due to the experience factor, although down the road who knows? I still doubt that he will ever be better than King in this regard.

Grit: One knock on King has been that he folds when his teams need him the most.

That is not at all true. King is famous for playing his best in big moments.

1) See the 2 minute drill in the 99 NFC Championship game against the Rams that ended on the Bert Emmanuel rule. Rookie QB takes his team down the field <2 minutes in the NFC Championship game

2) 2000 MNF against the Rams. Rams score a TD to go up 35-31, King takes the team down the field on the famous Warrick Dunn lateral play and the team wins 38-35.

3) The following week in Green Bay to clinch the division. King drives the team down the field and Tony "My conservatve offense got me fired" Dungy decides to take a knee on 3 consecutive plays rather than try for the TD or get closer, and Grammatica misses a 35 yard FG, costing the Bucs the division and home field in the first round.

McCown has that air about him though that no matter what he will try everything he can to win.

King is exactly the same way, and why DG like both McCown and King.

If I had to chose I would go with McCown, He has shown somethings that I want to see more of.

Fair enough, but the preseason games may make you want to change your mind.

 

[Mr.Dibbs]

Seriously, if we make it to the play-offs, who gives a flying #@*& who is the quarterback? Both guys are young and could play for us for the next 4-7 years.

 

[Lars the Red]

Also, to the point about playing with a lead? This is another example of King's (many) accomplishments being downplayed. Here's another fact, King started every game for the Bucs in 2000. That season, the Bucs set their franchise record for points per game in a season (24.3 ppg), a record that HAS NOT been broken yet, not even close. King accounted for 23 TDs (18 pass, 5 rush) which is the same number that Tom Brady accounted for in 2003.
.

Okay, then explain to me if King is all this, why did he lose his starting job and even the back up job during his stay in Tampa? Why wasn't he a hot commodity when he became available? How come he's playing for the Cards for something other than a big pay check? And why would DG, intead of announcing to the world that Josh was the starter, announce that he was excited to see a great competition for the starting job at QB?

I never liked him in Tampa and wasn't excited about him coming here. If he winds up being a great pick up then DG obviously saw things that most GM's in the league didn't. If he becomes a distraction with his yappy mouth, then I hope they toss him and find a better mentor.

 

[Mr.Dibbs]

HEY LARS THE RED:

King stated in those Tampa articles that he didn't prepare as hard as he needed to after the 2000 season. He slacked and he paid dearly for it, but he was young and it seems like he learned his lesson.

Once Brad Johnson got the starting nod and got the wins, King was screwed and was stuck on the bench.

From the article located at: http://sptimes.com/2004/07/09/Sports/King_builds_new_life_.shtml
King said:
"The year after the championship game, I didn't do what I was supposed to do in terms of getting prepared," King said. "I didn't, and it cost me. But, I mean, when you look at post-2001, I've been in shape every camp. But when you've been somewhere and you kind of have a history, sometimes they look at the glass half empty instead of half full.

 

[Lars the Red]

King stated in those Tampa articles that he didn't prepare as hard as he needed to after the 2000 season. He slacked and he paid dearly for it, but he was young and it seems like he learned his lesson.

Once Brad Johnson got the starting nod and got the wins, King was screwed and was stuck on the bench.

Perhaps, but even in mop up duty the last few years he hasn't set the world on fire. If you know that your going to be a free agent, why wouldn't you at least do all you could to increase the interest in you? So now we need to wonder if he's preparing well? And he's had arm issues? And he makes some cocky comments in an article? And he speaks poorly of his new team?

It just keep gettin' better.

 

[Mr.Dibbs]

Perhaps, but even in mop up duty the last few years he hasn't set the world on fire. If you know that your going to be a free agent, why wouldn't you at least do all you could to increase the interest in you? So now we need to wonder if he's preparing well? And he's had arm issues? And he makes some cocky comments in an article? And he speaks poorly of his new team?

It just keep gettin' better.

Nobody looks good when you practice with the second string team and then get thrown to the wolves. Look at Josh. Once he started practicing as the starter he got amazingly better.

Also, in mop up duty, do you really think that the players around him were playing to their full potential?

 

[This_Guy]

Okay, then explain to me if King is all this, why did he lose his starting job and even the back up job during his stay in Tampa?

For the same reason that Patrick Ramsey "lost" his starting job for the Skins this year. Ramsey looked like he was on his way to stardom, but Gibbs wanted a veteran QB. Gibbs, like Jon Gruden, likes a veteran presence at QB. King's play certainly didn't earn him a demotion, he was replaced by a veteran for further development. Gruden, who always likes to develop 1 young QB, decided he'd rather work with Chris Simms as of this year.

Why wasn't he a hot commodity when he became available?

He had 5 interviews lined up at the begining of free agency, but it was reported that King wanted to play for DG and DG went out of his way to sign King, and King cancelled the rest of his interviews. (Story goes, King called Dungy to ask about DG, Dungy tells King that DG had already called to ask about King). You are just assuming that he wasn't a hot commodity. How many interviews did Tim Couch have when he was cut loose?

How come he's playing for the Cards for something other than a big pay check?

He's playing for the Cards because 1) he wanted to play for DG and 2) He wants a chance to start. His paycheck is right in line with QBs who are top line backups. King knows that he's setting himself up for his NEXT contract, which would be big.

And why would DG, intead of announcing to the world that Josh was the starter, announce that he was excited to see a great competition for the starting job at QB?

For the same reason that a few weeks ago he was talking about Marcell Shipp gaining 1300 yards.....only to bench him before training camp. It's his style.

If he winds up being a great pick up then DG obviously saw things that most GM's in the league didn't.

Something DG has a track record of doing.

So now we need to wonder if he's preparing well? And he's had arm issues? And he makes some cocky comments in an article? And he speaks poorly of his new team?

Dude, now you are making things up. If you read the article, he is clearly working hard, trying to EARN the job, and he spoke the truth about Arizona sports fans. If you don't believe that most Arizona fans are apathetic about the Cardinals, then you are clueless.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

sorry, this has become a dumb thread. just my two cents.

 

[SECTION 11]

This is nuts.

We need jtav10 to come back and these two can debate who's better, Blake or King. We could have Vikesfan moderate. Terrific fun.

 

[Bobcat]

This is nuts.

We need jtav10 to come back and these two can debate who's better, Blake or King. We could have Vikesfan moderate. Terrific fun.

That would be great!!! If what King has said is true could this be our next
"jeff leon Blake"...???

Allan

 

[TILLMANFAN]

Lets just forget about Shaun Kings "game experience". Kordell Stewart has a ton of starts but no one really thinks is a quality starter. How much game experience did Kurt Warner, Marc Bulger and Tom Brady have? If a QB has the talent, and Dennis Green believes McCown has it, then experience is not much of a factor if he is surrounded by talent. Bledose had a ton of starts, playoff and Superbowl experience but Bellicheck stayed with the guy who moved the offesne. He quite correctly did not put Bledsoe back in because he had "more experience".

Green is a smart coach. He won a ton of games with seven different QB's. McCown is the guy with potential and the job is his to lose. He is in a contract year. His whole career hinges on his performance this year. If he fails, he will never be more than a back up. If he excells, he effectively hits the contract lottery. If McCown fails, Green would not hesitate to put in King or even Navarre. Green goes with the guy who can move the offense, be it malcontent Jeff George, an ancient Randall Cunningham, a nobody like Brad Johnson or a young QB like Culpepper.

Every play starts with the O-line. If ours does not stay healthy and perform well, and we end up with no ground game then it will not matter who the QB is. Hopefully Green will have them performing together by the start of the season.

 

[KingofCards]

I am dying for the season to start.

Opening day is my birthday. All I want is a Cards win.

 

[CardsRep03]

Tom Jackson just loves Shaun King. NFL Countdown used to drive me crazy with the nightly Shaun King Lovefest 2000. Conversely, it's kinda weird how some of the current NFL pundits are not high on King... or anyone playing QB for us. Guilt by association, I guess. All things being equal King or McCown have a chance with good coaching, scheming and game planning to put up some good numbers. I'm totally curious how things will pan out this year whoever our QB is. 2 Weeks till camp........

 

[Sam Wise]

FYI to This Guy, Jon Gruden did not bench King Dungy Did. King could hold the 3rd string clipboard last year.

 

[Phill11]

All I have to do is watch the last play of the season last year and I can decide.

McCown get's my vote.

He showed he can lead a team in the clutch. He can throw, he can play. McCown has all the tools. He's a class act off the field too (See Best Damn Sports Show Period).

 

[chickenhead]

Pop quiz: Which of the following QBs has the most starts in the NFL?
a) Chad Pennington
b) Marc Bulger
c) Jake Delhomme
d) Shaun King

Answer: D

True, but he's only appeared in 2 more games than Pennington even with Chad's injury. Also, in the last two years, Bulger and Delhomme have both appeared in 22 games to King's 6. I'm keeping an open mind, but let's also remember that DG's Brad Johnson was the one who got King's job and won a SB. However, if King's game really has improved, then I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do.