Memphis is special for Penny

[SweetD]

I agree he is valuable but value vs contract is way off. You can tell PHX is going to be looking to move Penny they drafted a SG and traded for JJ. They are looking to replace Penny it just didn't work out and for the Suns to be competitive they will need to move some cap and Penny has the worst cap to performace ratio. Penny is my second favorite player next to KJ. IMO I feel Penny would be better off somewere else and it would help the SUNS make a run for some young Free Agents. I would like to see Swift (play C) but he is getting back on the good side of MEM after the trade.

 

[elindholm]

Stromile Swift sits out every time he gets a hangnail. I think he'd be a terrible influence on Stoudemire, and I wouldn't want him on the Suns.

 

[PhiLLmattiC]

I think penny can score a 20 points a game if he wanted to. He was doing it last year but then he said he should take a step back because it obviously wasn't helping the team and he was right it wasn't. Suns aren't sure to win if penny marion and marbury have over 20 points in fact they probably have a losing record when that happens. Look at yesterday they all had good games and the game was still lose. Points really don't matter except that if penny takes more shots that means someone else is taking less shots and thats where things start to mess up. I wish he didn't have to keep stating the fact that he's able to put up really good stats but who knows what kind of mail fans send to his house or where he gets his info from. I've been to other message boards and hey still have a lot of negative things to say even this year.

 

[notakiddfan1]

I don't really understand what all the fuss is about over what Penny's been saying to the media recently. I mean, sure half his statement is that he could score 20 points a game, but the other half, and the half that should get most attention as it's the half he's been doing consistently, is that he doesn't try and score 20 points a game because he defers for the better of the team. Besides, who care what Penny says? If Penny were to say that he was all about the team and then came in and jacked up 50 shots a game, people wouldn't argue that Penny was indeed for the team because that's what he says. They'd say that it's obvious, with Penny's actions being direct evidence, that Penny just wants to score and doesn't care about the overall goodness of the time. This isn't the case in reality, however. In fact, whether Penny says he can score 20 a night or not, it's obvious that he's out there trying solely to do to the best of his ability whatever will help the Phoenix Suns win. I mean, is there a guy on this team that seems to have an open shot, but instead passes the ball to somebody else who might have a more open shot, more than Penny? Absolutely not. Growing up and earlier in his career as a perennial all-star in this league, Penny played the point guard position, so it's natural for Penny to be a pass-first guy. Considering the fact that he's our best low-post passer, that he's our smartest player, and that he's one of the team's most effective on-court leader, what does what he says in passing to some reporters matter at all?

Penny has shown an ability to score the basketball in certain situations. When he gets the ball in the low-post with a smaller guy on him, he scores pretty much every time. Look at last night when he had Jason Williams on him. All he had to do was turn around and take a jumper up over the top - he didn't even waste a dribble normally. But he only gets the ball around 4 or 5 times in the post a game. He could demand the ball, or talk to Frank Johnson about getting the ball more in the post (which wouldn't necesarily be a bad thing) but he doesn't, because he knows that Stephon and Shawn need the ball in their hands and to have the offense run through them. That's just where they, Marbury especially, are more effective, and that helps the team out. So for Penny to not demand the ball in the post, or call for more isolation plays or whatever, he certainly is taking a backseat to the other guys. The important thing is though, that when you watch him play on the court, it would appear that he has no problem with it, and as long as he's playing like that, who cares what else goes on?

 

[Joe Mama]

Holy crap. I think my hair just went gray reading that post.

Would you please break up those paragraphs a little more. I think you would make it easier for everybody to read your posts.

Thanks,
Joe Mama

 

[elindholm]

Yeah, but SirStefan told him he wouldn't read anything more than two paragraphs.

I feel for you, t.r.h. No one can decide what they want you to do.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by hcsilla
Because his contract totally ruins our cap flexibilty and drastically limits our FA's signing possibilities.

Geezus, nobody is arguing that point, the point is NOBODY will take that. The reasons you say Penny is crippling us are the EXACT same reasons nobody will take him!

Why are you so against understanding that?

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by elindholm
Yeah, but SirStefan told him he wouldn't read anything more than two paragraphs.

lol

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Geezus, nobody is arguing that point, the point is NOBODY will take that. The reasons you say Penny is crippling us are the EXACT same reasons nobody will take him!

Why are you so against understanding that?

Chaplin, did you see what I replied with this sentence to?

SirStefan asked "Why trade him?".

I'm starting to think that you read and/or comprehend only every third sentence of those posts what are you replying to.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by SirStefan32
. However, it would be interesting to see Swift/ Stoudemire on 4 and 5.

Stefan

I don't think that we will see it.

If Swift works well with a bigger PF (Gasol or Stoudamire) as a PF/C combo then why would MEM trade him?
If Swift doesn't then why would PHO trade for him?

 

[cheng]

I am with Stefan.

Penny's contract is bad, but not THAT bad considering he is still capable of produce 16/5/5, relatively healthy and his leadership is much needed for this young team. The suns struggled without him. Compare him to Baker or Stoudamire who make about same money, we should feel lucky. Then there are Mourning, Hill, McDyess, Mutombo who don't play at all. Especially Grant Hill who the Magic sign to sort of replace Penny, 97 mils TOTALLY wasted! I don't think Hill will ever be playing at the level Penny is playing without further injuries to his ankel. We are certainly not the only team overpaying player in the worst way.

Trade Penny only if we can find someone that is better as his replacement, JJ or Jacobson isn't ready for starters minute yet.

Even if we are able to trade him for a few scrubs with expiring contracts, it is probably going to save Colangelos some cash but it won't make the team better. I would rather see the team making playoffs with Penny than with some garbage missing the playoff + savings in luxury taxes which I could care less as a fan.

Again, no team will take Penny for the same reason the suns wanting to get rid of him.

 

[cheng]

Originally posted by elindholm
Yeah, but SirStefan told him he wouldn't read anything more than two paragraphs.

I feel for you, t.r.h. No one can decide what they want you to do.

I thought t.r.h was a Kidd fan, he had some huge fight with some poster when the Kidd trade happened.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by cheng
I am with Stefan.

Penny's contract is bad, but not THAT bad considering he is still capable of produce 16/5/5,

Is he?
Then why is he averaging only 12/5/4 as a starter?

The suns struggled without him.

The Suns are struggling also with him.

Trade Penny only if we can find someone that is better as his replacement, JJ or Jacobson isn't ready for starters minute yet.

I disagree.
Trade Penny if we can get an expiring contract and/or shorter/smaller/more moveable contracts because it gives the opportunity for Suns to get even more servicable players (than Penny) via free agency or trade.

Again, no team will take Penny for the same reason the suns wanting to get rid of him.

Unfortunately this is probably true.
But don't forget that there was a team which traded a big expiring contract for Vin Baker.....

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by hcsilla

I disagree.
Trade Penny if we can get an expiring contract and/or shorter/smaller/more moveable contracts because it gives the opportunity for Suns to get even more servicable players (than Penny) via free agency or trade.

Maybe, but unless they get a smoking deal on a free agent they probably won't spend anything significant this summer. If they could trade for an expiring contract they are going to need all of that cap relief because they'll be well over the luxury tax.

The bottom line is that we shouldn't be holding our breaths for Penny Hardaway to be dealt.

Joe Mama

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
Maybe, but unless they get a smoking deal on a free agent they probably won't spend anything significant this summer
Joe Mama

I agree.

I meant that " Trade Penny if we can get an expiring contract and/or shorter/smaller/more moveable contracts because it gives the opportunity for Suns to get even more servicable players (than Penny) via free agency or trade" in 2004 and 2005.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by Joe Mama

The bottom line is that we shouldn't be holding our breaths for Penny Hardaway to be dealt.

Joe Mama

That is exactly what I've been saying, but hcsilla doesn't listen and instead decides to attack me.

 

[reedykat]

Ditto Cheng, I think that you put it all in perspective very well.

 

[SirStefan32]

We all know that the C's are trying to trade Penny, that's nothing new. Of course you would trade him if you could get a shorter, or an expiring contract, or a better player, but that's not going to happen.

Penny's been playing well. The Suns troubles started when Penny went down. Now he is back, and very soon, the Suns will be stable again. Sure, he doesn't put up 25 points every night, but he often wins games with little plays, be it a defensive stop, a basket, an assist or a rebound. I agree he is not worth $13M that he is making, but he is playing hard, doing whatever the team needs him to do. If he can one again shut his mouth, not talk to the meadia, I don't have a problem with Penny.

Stefan

 

[boisesuns]

penny was brought here to be a part of something big (him and kidd) but he got injured. what were we supposed to do? just wait for him and not try to get some talent? now we have put ourselves in a good spot, becuase we thought penny was done so we went out and tried to rebuild the team. and all of the sudden we have some depth. it's a nice problem to have. so what if penny is a shell of himself, he can still contribue, which says a lot. we might not get 25 a night from him, but we brought in other guys to do that. i think he's capable, which makes this team tougher overall. i'm for keeping penny right now. i'd rather do something about googs.

 

[notakiddfan1]

I'm not really sure what the problem is though.

First of all, the Suns trading Penny for Dickerson would be like TNT trading John Thomson for Bill Walton.

With Penny making what he makes, it's hard for me to think of an actual trade cenario that the Suns would get genuinely wripped off to be a part of.

But that trade with the Grizzlies would be.

The arguement that Dickerson will either return to the court and be his old self or retire, which would work out in our favor, is flat out ludicrous.

Look at Penny, look at Grant Hill, look at Tom Gugliota, look at Vince Carter, look at Danny Manning, look at Bobby Hurley.

Besides, Michael Dickerson's "old self" isn't something the Phoenix Suns or any other team should exactly be coveting at this juncture in.. well, in reality...

And who was it, I'd like to ask, that suggested we get Bryant Reeves?

Right now, Penny seems to be a perfect fit for the Suns.

They don't need top-tier scorer.

They have Marbury.

They don't need a soft, not able to take the hit in the lane and finish, jump shooting rebounder.

We already have Shawn Marion (Just kidding!!!! I love Shawn)

What we need is a guy who can score efficiently in the flow of the offense, can help out on the boards and keep other guys involved.

Penny's stats since he returned to the starting lineup are:

13.5 ppg (48% from the field) 5.3 rebounds, 3.6 assists per game.

On average, he only shoots about 12.3 times a game since returning.

The bottom line is, however, that we're not going to get Penny's worth, both on the court and on the payroll, in a trade.

Penny is worth more than his trade value.

But he's worth less than his contract would argue.

Therefore, anything we do with Penny Hardaway on the trade front would more likely hurt the team more than it does help us.

Oh, and I just want to know something for future reference.

Is this easier for you guys to read?

 

[elindholm]

Oh, and I just want to know something for future reference.

Is this easier for you guys to read?

Heh! Actually it was, but I wasn't aware of why until you pointed it out.

 

[SweetD]

Much better to read, but you could have just said Penney trade bad becouse he is worth more but less.

 

[elindholm]

Penney trade bad becouse he is worth more but less.

Yeah, that would have been much clearer.

 

[SweetD]

Your one of those high detailed people HUH!