Michael Stone

[Jetstream Green]

I myself have asked what is up with Michael Stone. My position is still a patient one because it is possible Stone has the most physical attributes than anyone in the secondary including Starks. The guy only had about two years of college experience as a walk on and the NFL is a HUGE step up. I would be willing to give Stone some more time because he has so much potential. If the club gave Rutledge so much of the benefit of the doubt till they realized it didn't seem to be possible, Stone deserves the same. Unlike some, I really like Reynaldo Hill because though he might be lacking in physical attributes, he is a competitor with some smarts. Coby Rhinehart had some some good special team plays last year but the injury he had sustained clearly hurt him and I can understand the team not overly support bringing him back. This team needs a CB with some size to harass players like Owens from San Fran till I'll feel good about the secondary.

Also, I think we'll find our secondary of Starks, Barrett, Jackson, Wilson and Lucas much better than they seem if they would only have the benefit of any kind of a pass rush.

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by Jetstream Green
Also, I think we'll find our secondary of Starks, Barrett, Jackson, Wilson and Lucas much better than they seem if they would only have the benefit of any kind of a pass rush.

Thats exactly it!

If this team can develop a pass rush we will have a very good secondary! You have people on here saying that its imperative that we upgrade at CB and thats just not so. Our CBs are young talented and can get the job done!

Of course more depth is always good but it is NOT IMPERATIVE!

 

[Tangodnzr]

I agree totally Jetstream. I have been saying for quite awhile now that Stone is my "Wildcard" pick to have a breakout year this season.

This will be his 3rd year, and he indeed has all the physical tools you could want.

 

[red desert]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
I agree totally Jetstream. I have been saying for quite awhile now that Stone is my "Wildcard" pick to have a breakout year this season.

This will be his 3rd year, and he indeed has all the physical tools you could want.

It's true, you have been saying that for quite a while. Here's hoping it comes to fruition this season.

 

[jmr667]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
I agree totally Jetstream. I have been saying for quite awhile now that Stone is my "Wildcard" pick to have a breakout year this season.

This will be his 3rd year, and he indeed has all the physical tools you could want.

Wasn't he practicing at one of the safety positions last year? Are you thinking he'll move back to corner and become the nickel back this year?

Either way it would be great if he does finally "get it". The defensive backfield is looking a little thin. If Starks has another bout of injuries, the team could really use a DB like Stone to step up.

 

[JeffGollin]

I agree totally Jetstream. I have been saying for quite awhile now that Stone is my "Wildcard" pick to have a breakout year this season.
I don't think we'll want to go into next season "hoping" that Barrett or Stone will have a breakout year.

With guys like Stone or Barrett - if and when they step up and prove they can be consistent starters, yippeee! But until then, we remain vulnerable at LCB. It would be desirable to have someone come in with more proven ability we're sure we can count on.

At this point, I'd even feel that a high draft pick like Newman would have more proven ability than either Stone or Barrett.

 

[Ed B]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
I agree totally Jetstream. I have been saying for quite awhile now that Stone is my "Wildcard" pick to have a breakout year this season.
I don't think we'll want to go into next season "hoping" that Barrett or Stone will have a breakout year.

With guys like Stone or Barrett - if and when they step up and prove they can be consistent starters, yippeee! But until then, we remain vulnerable at LCB. It would be desirable to have someone come in with more proven ability we're sure we can count on.

At this point, I'd even feel that a high draft pick like Newman would have more proven ability than either Stone or Barrett.

I like Barrett. Stone has done absolutely nothing and trying to convert him to safety last season (which he also failed at and got sent back to CB) was not a vote of confidence in his versatility to say the least.

I just think the guy has no football instincts at all and you can't teach that. He can't beat out Hill or Rhinehart (which is pathetic) and couldn't even get on special teams until our first 6 gunners got injured.

Maybe he'll be a player at some point but to rely on him to start contributing after what he's shown so far (IE nothing) would be insane.

This talk about him "showing great athletic skills" and "being ready for a breakout" is just a symptom of the sort of love-fest that people like to participate in in the offseason, and it keeps crap players on the team longer than they should. Saying "We need to get better at CB, who can we draft or sign?" is a lot more productive than sitting around patting the back of a player who has (if this is humanly possible) been a bigger bust as a second round pick than Johnny Rutledge. It just amazes me how this team has a poor record every year and according to some fans we have 53 pro bowlers. This team stunk last year and you fix it by jettisoning the dead weight. Stone was so bad that no matter how injury-ravaged the defense got, he never saw action. He played about 5 plays at CB against the 49ers and that was it. How he's poised for a "breakout" is beyond me.

 

[mdamien13]

How can a Michael Stone thread have been started without me being the first to post a reply? Michael Stone is to me what the flag boys are to many others - the bane of the Cardinals organization. He is a representation of their piss poor scouting team and a high draft bust. The fact that we brought him in with hopes that he might replace Aeneas drives me to tears. I have never seen him contribute once on the field since we picked him up. If I were Graves I'd try and attach him to any trade I could muster. I'm still not so sure why we didn't hide him in Boston's luggage at Sky Harbor (surprise, Marty!).

If he even survives camp this year I'll be very impressed. I'd like nothing more than to eat every word I just said (while he wears a red uniform) but I just don't see him as anything but dead weight on our roster.

 

[Skkorpion]

Originally posted by mdamien13

If he even survives camp this year I'll be very impressed. I'd like nothing more than to eat every word I just said (while he wears a red uniform) but I just don't see him as anything but dead weight on our roster.

Mdamien, I'm with you on this. If anything, Stone has been worse at safety than he was at CB. Complete bust.

He's a camp cut waiting to happen.

Something else about Stone that's rarely talked about is his small size. In person he looks small and skinny. Another blown 2nd rounder by Ferguson.

 

[ajcardfan]

When he couldn't even crack special teams his first season, that was a sure giveaway something was seriously wrong. Yes, he played special teams this year, but is that something to be proud of the way we covered kicks? Johnny Rutledge didn't play special teams his first year either. We all know how he "broke out". Stone is a bust. Moving a guy from CB to safety, so he can be a backup, is a bust move.

Tango, if the guy does break out this season, I'll happily admit I'm wrong, and you won't have to remind me to do so.

 

[Ed B]

If you demand excellence as a fan, you just might end up getting it. If you play into the past organizational philosophy of talking up mediocrity, you're guaranteed to get it.

Stone is without a doubt the least fluid athlete I have seen on this team in a long time. He can't play. He can't play corner, he can't play safety, he can't play special teams. Quentin Harris got on the field ahead of this guy.

I understand not cutting him, because you always want to give a guy 3 years to develop if you made an investment in him as a high draft pick, but this guy has been a total waste of a roster space, is usually inactive, and shouldn't be counted on as anything but a guy who will be a pleasant surprise if he can even contribute on kick coverage.

 

[Ed B]

Originally posted by ajcardfan


Tango, if the guy does break out this season, I'll happily admit I'm wrong, and you won't have to remind me to do so.

Ditto me.

I will gladly and freely admit I'm wrong if this guy can so much as make the team.

Why some people make an exercise out of talking up the dead weight on this team is beyond me. Like AJ said, if a guy isn't even aware and talented enough to run down the field and slam into a wedge on the kick team, something's wrong.

And before you point out that he was a gunner on punts last year, remember that we gave up punt return TDs in 3 consecutive games once we put him on the punt team, which we did only because everyone else was hurt.

 

[ChiCard]

Stone is a complete bust. It's time to cut our loses. He adds nothing to the team.

 

[Tangodnzr]

I don't buy the argument that just because me or anyone else says we still think Stone will fulfill his "potential" that we have a "love fest" or whatever....C'mon Ed. Lighten up a little.

First of all I never said I expected him to be starting. What I do expect is to see his playing time increase significantly as the season progresses and maybe by the end of the season be playing at a level to be considered starting.

You have to remember he came out of college early. So he missed some valuable training and experience there. Time and history has shown that most players who come out early do take longer to develop because of that. Sure once in awhile some freak of nature comes along and defies those odds....but that's by far the exception, not the rule.

It would seem apparant to me, that the coaching staff evidently sees something there too. In spite of what some of the couch potato QB's here say, I maintain the Cards staff is not a bunch of bungling idiots that have no clue of what they are doing.

Look at Ray Thompson, until last year...his 3rd...he was generally hammered by the couchies as a total bust. Jamir Miller didn't "blossom" right away. The list goes on and on.

Different people learn differently. Who knows, Stone may not be the most "cerebreal" of players and not a "quick study", but neither does that say that he can't indeed still become a decent NFL player. Obviously he does possess the unteachable physical skills, no one has ever debated that.

As far as Barrett goes, I like him, always have, but I have never felt he is really the answer to what you would like to see as the everyday starting CB. I think he is "perfectly" suited as a nickel back and rotational player, and I like the way he plays. In that sense he may be just the opposite of Stone, a good heady player but hampered by physical limitations.

 

[Jetstream Green]

My mistake

I shouldn't be making any evaluation on the Cardinal secondary when WRs have over three seconds to get open. With our dismal pass rush the last past seasons, even a CB tandem of Champ Baily and Patrick Surtain would appear to look like crap on the field. I'm just saying give Stone another year, and I do like Barrett from what I have seen along with Hill.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

does stone have incriminating pics of all you lovers? my god. he's nothing but dead weight, and i'm willing to bet that he couldn't learn that position either. have you all learned nothing from the rutledge situation? just because he was selected in the second round doesn't mean that he was a legit second-round talent. at the time he was considered a tremendous reach. looks the critics were right, he was a reach right outta the cards' collective arses.

 

[Tangodnzr]

I also do agree that if he doesn't "breakout" this year, and it is his last under contract. Then he should be cut.

Until then I once again say...and as I said before...it is a "wildcard" pick. I look for him to fulfill some of the expectations in drafting him.

 

[Ed B]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Look at Ray Thompson, until last year...his 3rd...he was generally hammered by the couchies as a total bust. Jamir Miller didn't "blossom" right away. The list goes on and on.

Whoa.....BIG difference. Thompson was on the field and playing poorly. Stone can't even get ahead of Quentin Harris on the roster and see any action.

 

[ChiCard]

Originally posted by PHXSPORTS4LIFE
does stone have incriminating pics of all you lovers? my god. he's nothing but dead weight, and i'm willing to bet that he couldn't learn that position either. have you all learned nothing from the rutledge situation? just because he was selected in the second round doesn't mean that he was a legit second-round talent. at the time he was considered a tremendous reach. looks the critics were right, he was a reach right outta the cards' collective arses.

This is an argument with which I agree completely. We gave it a try now lets move on. Tango, I have to agree with Ed. At least Thompson performed when he was on the field, This guy hasn't shown a thing. You knew it was bad when they changed his position. Forget about him. Time for someone else.

 

[Tangodnzr]

I think one of the things some of you may be overlooking is that Mac has demonstrated that he prefers not to play young players any sooner than he absolutely has to.

Is McCown ready to be a starter yet? Does he too, have potential? I know its easy to generalize and put people in convenient little "boxes". Am I guaranteeing Stone will fulfill his "promise"? NO!!! I never said that at all.

But once again, neither do I go along with all the doom and gloomers who are constantly finding people, players, etc. to prematurely label busts, and not give much credit to the coaching staff for knowing what they are doing.

 

[CardinalChris]

Do you guys look at our backfield? we are worse at corner than every position except WR. Hill should NOT be more than a special teams guy. Barrett is fine, but in the NFL you better have 3 good ones, and we don't. We are VERY THIN and need to improve here, mainly depth. Anybody know when McBride comes to town?