Mike Gandy starting LT

[kerouac9]

I think Cowers lame-duck season with a SB hangover may have had something to do with it. The year before they did pretty good.

Dude, the offensive line gave up 9 sacks in one game. Go to FootballOutsiders.com and check their pass blocking rankings for O-lines. The Steelers have placed in the bottom 1/3 of the league every season that Grimm has been there. Not even an average pass-blocking unit gives up 9 sacks in one game. You'd think that eventually pride would step in at some point.

 

[Redheart]

Um, wow, really? Because he seemed to be quite the failure...until we signed him. Then, all of a sudden, he's a top-of-the-FA-class-OT, a good player, and someone we should be excited about.

I swear, we could sign Martha Stewart, and people would spin it as a positive and swear she could become a viable OT.

I see a third-year player with one-year experience at the position he is playing for us; but has never played for us, or Grimm before.

I see some vote of confidence from Wiz and Grimm.

I have advocated withholding judgement.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I ususally try very hard not to distort a post; my appologies to Cheese. My explanation is that I picked your post to respond to the general direction of the thread.

I don't think your in a paniking, and I should have just replied to the thread, you just seemed to be the last to say something like "leery of a guy being named our starting LT who has been a complete failure in his previous two stops". A "complete failure" might be viewed by some as quite a bit of a distortion; but I know you don't like those either.

fair enough as to your first paragraph, but I do think a guy who has been blown out of his previous two teams, which needed and still do need T (in Buffalo's case) is pretty indicative of a massive failure. Especially since he apparently was getting zero love from anyone besides us and settled on a pretty meager salary for a LT (a premium position) in a cap-rich off-season. None of that speaks very well for the guy IMO.

this isn't to say I don't have confidence in Grimm. To be honest, if he can't build an O-line than NO ONE WILL EVER BE ABLE TO DO SO WITH THE CARDINALS. However, I'd just rather he didn't have to make chicken salad out of what I and two other teams have deemed to be chicken bleep.

 

[Sandan]

So if he sucks so bad why did we sign him ?

Don't you think Wiz might have vetoed such suckage if he agreed with you ?

 

[Redsz]

The point about the Steelers pass blocking is valid. FO has the PIT ranked as follows:

2006:
Run Blocking: 22nd
Pass Blocking: 24th

2005:
Run Blocking: 12th
Pass Blocking: 23rd

2004:
Run Blocking: 4th
Pass Blocking: 28th

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol2004.php

What is intreasting is that our line has been a reasonably good pass protecting line over the last three years (based on sacks vs pass att).

Hopefully the team can find some form of middle ground here.

 

[Redheart]

... but I do think a guy who has been blown out of his previous two teams, which needed and still do need T (in Buffalo's case) is pretty indicative of a massive failure. Especially since he apparently was getting zero love from anyone besides us and settled on a pretty meager salary for a LT (a premium position) in a cap-rich off-season. None of that speaks very well for the guy IMO.

Thanks for the response and you put your finger on why you have to be cautious, if not concerned.

How much can we expect from Grimm in terms of making him a "good" LT. Not a pro-bowler, but just good.

If we could just call our whole O-Line "good" at the end of the season, I think we are in the play-offs.

I can't wait to get a look at them this year at training camp. I will let you know then if I think LT is a freeway to the QB and if Grimm is doing any good.

 

[kerouac9]

So if he sucks so bad why did we sign him ?

Don't you think Wiz might have vetoed such suckage if he agreed with you ?

Hey, we could have said the same thing about Orlando Huff! Or possible roster casualty Kendrick Clancy! Or Kurt Warner! No matter how many times this excuse is made, it's still relevant!

What makes you think that Whis has veto power over free agent signings? That's an unfounded assertion. It's just as likely that Graves told Whis, "Well, this is the OLT we can afford. You can have him or no one. And we'll draft one, too."

 

[Sandan]

So know you are blaming Wiz for the mistakes of previous coaches ?

 

[kerouac9]

So know you are blaming Wiz for the mistakes of previous coaches ?

So you're crediting Whis with superior decision-making when he hasn't done anything ever as an evaluator of talent or administrator of a football team? When he has as many wins as a head coach as you do?

Me = Two NFL teams who let him leave and 31 other teams who didn't even bother bringing him in for a visit say that Mike Gandy is practically worthless. The Chiefs and Dolphins--who desperately needed help at LT--didn't even take a sniff of the guy.

You = Faith in Rod Graves (4-12, 6-10, 5-11, 5-11) and two guys who have never made personnel decisions.

Maybe it'll work out, but your making the same excuses that were made for crappy free agent decisions (made by the same guy who's currently making the decisions) doesn't seem to hold a lot of water.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I must admit I'm concerned for Leinarts health. Gandy at LT scares me as a pass blocker.

The only thing that would make me feel somewhat better is if this line truely can open some holes in the running game on a consistant basis. Listen, the Cardinals have already proven that they will go no where without a running game. If this new O-Line forces teams to put 8 men in the box and respect the run. Then, just maybe, things will start to change around here.

I'm going to wait until we see these guys in pads and hitting to pass judgement on this O-Line. I can see where the coaching staff is going. However until we see some live action I will have some serious doubts.

I think in the end this team will live and die by whether we can run the ball or not.

 

[joeshmo]

I think Cowers lame-duck season with a SB hangover may have had something to do with it. The year before they did pretty good.

Just becuase they won the super bowl does not mean every aspect of their game was ""pretty good.

In fact their pass blocking was just as bad this year as it was their super bowl year. They were ranked 16th in the league in sacks allowed even though they threw the ball the fewest amount out of all the teams.

Ranked 23rd in 05. Ranked 25th last year.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol2006.php

They base their rankings on how many sacks a team allows per pass attempt, not just total sacks allowed which doesnt put every team on the same level becuase not every team throws the ball the same amount of times.

And to Lobo I dont break down the technique of what Grimm coaches or compared to other coaches techniques taught. I base it on production.

Grimm himself has stated that his OL havent been good pass blockers because he primaraly looks for run blockers more then anything. Straight from the horses mouth.

If people are expecting for our pass blocking as a unit or the pass blocking ability of the players on the team to get better I think they are in for a rude awakening. They will get get better at run blocking and fewer penalties though.

 

[MadCardDisease]

In fact their pass blocking was just as bad this year as it was their super bowl year. They were ranked 16th in the league in sacks allowed even though they threw the ball the fewest amount out of all the teams.

Ranked 23rd in 05. Ranked 25th last year.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol2006.php

The Cards were actually pretty good at pass blocking last year. That got them a total of 5 wins!

 

[joeshmo]

I see a third-year player with one-year experience at the position he is playing for us; but has never played for us, or Grimm before.

I see some vote of confidence from Wiz and Grimm.

I have advocated withholding judgement.

Correction. This will be his 6th year.

62 Starts of which more then half have been at OT, so he has more then 2 years worth of games experiance at OT.

And what is Grimm going to teach him that 5 years worth of other OL coaches havent taught him.

And I dont think a 3 year deal that is really only a 1 year tryout deal a very big vote of confidence. A deal they had out on the table from day one and were willing to let him walk or talk with other teams for a full month. I call that reserved optimism.

 

[joeshmo]

So if he sucks so bad why did we sign him ?

Don't you think Wiz might have vetoed such suckage if he agreed with you ?

I dont follow that logic.

So every FA that is ever signed should never be questioned becuase why else would they sign them?

And are you talking about the 1 year prove it deal package at a mediocre LT amount that we were willing to let him walk and talk to other teams for a full month. That great package.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I dont follow that logic.

So every FA that is ever signed should never be questioned becuase why else would they sign them?

And are you talking about the 1 year prove it deal package at a mediocre LT amount that we were willing to let him walk and talk to other teams for a full month. That great package.

pretty much sums up my thoughts.

 

[Sandan]

Look, we just got a new head coach and I think he deserves a little slack to start with.

What it really comes down to is that several posters here think Wiz has no say and that Rod Graves is a moron. I seriously doubt the first is true and and I know the second is not.

That being the case maybe some are overreacting to the lineups before they even put pads on.

What I do know is that overall our roster has far better talent than it had a few years ago.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I think I'll trust Russ Grimm in the evaluation process.

Gandy is a good lineman whom will only get better by working with Grimm.

I'm excited and optimistic about this coming season.

Go Cards!!!

It's not like Gandy didn't have a pretty good OL coach in Buffalo. Jim McNally is one of the top guys around and has been for 20+ years. With all this talk of improving the OL, the Cards may have the worst starting left side OL in the entire NFL with Gandy and Wells. They are a definite bottom 5 team in that area. And, on the right side, there will likely be a rookie starting. Lutui has only started a few games and Johnson has been hurt so who knows how effective he will be. I don't see how anyone can be comfortable with this OL. Maybe it will all work out but it's looking pretty shaky for all of us who are not writing articles for the Cards front office.

 

[joeshmo]

The Cards were actually pretty good at pass blocking last year. That got them a total of 5 wins!

Now if we could have only just added even an average D and Average Special teams unit as well.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Look, we just got a new head coach and I think he deserves a little slack to start with.

What it really comes down to is that several posters here think Wiz has no say and that Rod Graves is a moron. I seriously doubt the first is true and and I know the second is not.

we've seen ZERO evidence as far as ON THE FIELD success to suggest Graves is otherwise at this point.

That being the case maybe some are overreacting to the lineups before they even put pads on.

some are overreatcing? Is ANY thing that's even quasi-skeptical or not over the top gung-ho NOT OVER-REACTING in your opinion? News broke and people are reacting to it - isn't that what you WANT TO HAVE HAPPEN ON A MESSAGE BOARD? Good grief Nidan. A guy who has never accomplished anything of worth in the NFL aas a T and has continually been demoted/moved or just let go of his previous team was just named a starter, protecting our most prized possession and people aren't supposed to comment on it except to say YIPPPEEE!?

 

[CtCardinals78]

we've seen ZERO evidence as far as ON THE FIELD success to suggest Graves is otherwise at this point.



some are overreatcing? Is ANY thing that's even quasi-skeptical or not over the top gung-ho NOT OVER-REACTING in your opinion? News broke and people are reacting to it - isn't that what you WANT TO HAVE HAPPEN ON A MESSAGE BOARD? Good grief Nidan. A guy who has never accomplished anything of worth in the NFL aas a T and has continually been demoted/moved or just let go of his previous team was just named a starter, protecting our most prized possession and people aren't supposed to comment on it except to say YIPPPEEE!?

I agree Beefer and have a solution to all of our Matt Leinart's concerns of getting smashed.
Our most prized possession on this team is none other than Kurt Warner. I like the guy but let Matt sit again until we get a real OT. That way he's fresh and ready to go for the '08 campaign!

 

[AZCB34]

Look, we just got a new head coach and I think he deserves a little slack to start with.

What it really comes down to is that several posters here think Wiz has no say and that Rod Graves is a moron. I seriously doubt the first is true and and I know the second is not.

That being the case maybe some are overreacting to the lineups before they even put pads on.

What I do know is that overall our roster has far better talent than it had a few years ago.

Whiz deserves some slack but noit blind faith slack. You are trustung a HC who has never been a HC before to make the right calls (although I think Graves is the true decision-maker and only accepts input from the coaches)? I dunno nidan...sometimes your absolute blind faith is amazing to comprehend.

The fact that Gandy is a starter even without pads must bring into question the decision-making prowess of the HC and the OL coach...thus they lose some of that precious slack you are giving them IMO.

 

[AZCB34]

So if he sucks so bad why did we sign him ?

Don't you think Wiz might have vetoed such suckage if he agreed with you ?

Because the Cards let Davis walk (I am not debating the decision just stating fact), they had what has been an entirely unreliable OT in Ross, they had already seemed to decide Wells was moving inside or is out altogether and thus were forced to pursue whatever OT's were on the market and draft one as well to fill that hole. Basically, they had to look beyond the suckage and sign him and hope they could coach him up.

JMHO

 

[Redheart]

... Basically, they had to look beyond the suckage and sign him and hope they could coach him up.JMHO

I think that pretty much sums it up. I might have used mediocrity instead of suckage...

 

[Stout]

I see a third-year player with one-year experience at the position he is playing for us; but has never played for us, or Grimm before.

I see some vote of confidence from Wiz and Grimm.

I have advocated withholding judgement.

As stated already, you're wrong about him being a third year player with one year of experience in-position.

I am extremely worried, as I was when we signed him, that such a player got a vote of confidence. I will not withhold judgment and say flat-out that he had better not be starting at OT for us.

 

[Redheart]

As stated already, you're wrong about him being a third year player with one year of experience in-position.

I am extremely worried, as I was when we signed him, that such a player got a vote of confidence. I will not withhold judgment and say flat-out that he had better not be starting at OT for us.

You are correct. He is a six-year vetern, started 62 games, 43 at LT.

If he is the best we got at the position, I hope he does well.