Miller once again does it again!

[Russ Smith]

If I'm reading the CBS story on the rule changes correctly, it sounds like Arizona, USC et al could be on a much more rapid road to any punishment from the FBI story. The key passage from the story IMO is this.

"This will be implemented immediately by the NCAA with the schools currently caught up in the Department of Justice's case regarding multiple schools -- and alleged violations of multiple federal laws."

It comes from a paragraph where it says under new rules the NCAA will now allow themselves to use information from outside agencies and investigations, previously they couldn't. And it clearly implies that means right now they can use any information they have from the FBI, to suspend players and or punish schools.

IT has interesting repercussions, for Arizona it's probably good, if you're going to get hit you'd rather take the hit this year while you're down, than next year or the year after when you have better talent coming in(Mannion and Green potentially). For USC it has a similar impact they could be pretty good this year but with their hiring of the Mobleys dad their recruiting classes going forward look much better, if they're going to get hit, better for them to take it now.

 

[overseascardfan]

If I'm reading the CBS story on the rule changes correctly, it sounds like Arizona, USC et al could be on a much more rapid road to any punishment from the FBI story. The key passage from the story IMO is this.

"This will be implemented immediately by the NCAA with the schools currently caught up in the Department of Justice's case regarding multiple schools -- and alleged violations of multiple federal laws."

It comes from a paragraph where it says under new rules the NCAA will now allow themselves to use information from outside agencies and investigations, previously they couldn't. And it clearly implies that means right now they can use any information they have from the FBI, to suspend players and or punish schools.

IT has interesting repercussions, for Arizona it's probably good, if you're going to get hit you'd rather take the hit this year while you're down, than next year or the year after when you have better talent coming in(Mannion and Green potentially). For USC it has a similar impact they could be pretty good this year but with their hiring of the Mobleys dad their recruiting classes going forward look much better, if they're going to get hit, better for them to take it now.

I think any punishment levied is going to have more than a one year effect. With the exception of USC who obviously have connections to players because of the Mobley hire, the other schools to include UA if punished will impact recruiting beyond 2020. Other big time coaches will use that to sway recruits their way. So IF it happens will kids playing this year who were implicated, Quinerly & Little become ineligible?

 

[Russ Smith]

I think any punishment levied is going to have more than a one year effect. With the exception of USC who obviously have connections to players because of the Mobley hire, the other schools to include UA if punished will impact recruiting beyond 2020. Other big time coaches will use that to sway recruits their way. So IF it happens will kids playing this year who were implicated, Quinerly & Little become ineligible?

I was going to mention that too, my guess is Little won't be because he's not at the school that the FBI story involved(Arizona), and because it's on record that the AAU guy admitted he never gave the money to Little or his family, he kept it for himself. Quinerly is not at Arizona either but near as we can tell, both he and his mom did in fact take money so they would probably at the very least have to pay it back and be suspended. The NCAA has this bizarre rule that allows kids to pay it back over 4 years, and they can even use scholarship money to pay it back. I remember Josh Selby did that. Just seems bizarre to me to suspend a kid for taking money and then allow him to use scholarship money to pay it back. And of course once they leave the school what leverage does the NCAA have? If Quinerly goes pro after 1 year how could the NCAA possibly require him to pay back any monies still owed, they'd have no jurisdiction.

The whole thing is still pretty unclear but the CBS story very clearly said the NCAA is now allowed to use any information they get from someone else, and use it immediately. I had heard rumor UA expects both Randolph and Akot to have small suspensions and I guess maybe this explains that rumor, maybe Arizona knew this rule was coming and that the NCAA would then know the identity of the 3 players from last year in the story, rumored to be Alkins, Randolph and Akot, and suspend the 2 still there.

 

[TJ]

An independent investigation revealed that Quinerly received no money. Right now, all info points to Book pocketing the money or it never exchanging hands.

I’ve also heard no credible source say that Akot and Randolph will be suspended. Sounds like BRO wishful thinking

 

[GatorAZ]

If it was proven JQ or his family took the reported 15k there’s no way he’d be able to play for anyone. A minor suspension to pay back funds is something like an infraction of plane tickets paid by an assistant coach (Pinder) or having dinner bought for by an agent (Bridges). Kansas is in deeper doo doo however I don’t think we’re out of the woods by any stretch.

 

[Russ Smith]

An independent investigation revealed that Quinerly received no money. Right now, all info points to Book pocketing the money or it never exchanging hands.

I’ve also heard no credible source say that Akot and Randolph will be suspended. Sounds like BRO wishful thinking

Can you cite or give me a link to this independent investigation? the only place I have seen it mentioned is by Arizona fans on Arizona sites. Even Villanova fans don't know if he's going to be allowed to play or not, I literally read a story this morning saying he is considered their best incoming freshman, if he's allowed to play. If you mean that he hired a lawyer, he did that last October after the story broke when he was still verballed to UA, and that's not an independent investigation, his family was literally paying the lawyer to clear him, not investigate. If you are referring to the ESPN story on it, all they said is that Nova said they looked into his role in the scandal and they were confident he'd be able to play at some point that year.

If there's some other investigation I'm not aware of I'd love to read about it, I have seen that mentioned on 2 Arizona sites off and on for months but nobody ever cites where it came from. Everything I've seen says the lawyer says the mom insists she got no money, and the kid insists he got no money so they're both asserting that what's on the wiretaps is either false, or that Book pocketed the money. It's certainly possible that's true, again the AAU guy in the Little case admitted he kept the money for himself, but I'm not aware of Book saying that yet.

I heard the Akot and Randolph stuff from an Arizona "insider" last week, I actually Pmed it to Gator the other day. The only time it's been on BRO is when I mentioned it after hearing it, and then again today after the CBS story.

 

[Russ Smith]

If it was proven JQ or his family took the reported 15k there’s no way he’d be able to play for anyone. A minor suspension to pay back funds is something like an infraction of plane tickets paid by an assistant coach (Pinder) or having dinner bought for by an agent (Bridges). Kansas is in deeper doo doo however I don’t think we’re out of the woods by any stretch.

It's actually not true, the NCAA has long had a policy of allowing kids to pay back the funds and get suspended. 15K is big enough he'd miss a considerable amount of games, somewhere between 9 and 15, but he likely would be allowed to repay it and play. his biggest issue would be if the NCAA decided he lied to them since he's publicly denied taking it. The NCAA considers lying about an infraction worse than the infraction itself.

Kansas that that one kid who allegedly got bought out of a deal with Marlyand, if the NCAA has any proof on that I expect he'll be suspended for good, it's pretty clear from that story the kid knew the alleged deal existed because he told people he'd already taken a deal to go to Maryland, so DeSousa wouldn't be able to claim he didn't know.

With Quinerly the problem is he claimed he took no money and if his mom did, he didn't know. And she claimed she took no money and if her son did, she didn't know, but she didn't think he did. It's entirely possible Book and the agent made up the whole story and just pocketed the money himself, but right now nobody really knows. Bowen said the same thing and there were all these stories about how he was transferring and the NCAA was going to let him play, possibly even last year, and then he left school and filed for the draft and is now signed to play for the Sydney Kings in Australia. The reality is he had no reason to think they were going to let him play despite insisting his dad took money without him knowing, so he went pro.

 

[GatorAZ]

It's actually not true, the NCAA has long had a policy of allowing kids to pay back the funds and get suspended. 15K is big enough he'd miss a considerable amount of games, somewhere between 9 and 15, but he likely would be allowed to repay it and play. his biggest issue would be if the NCAA decided he lied to them since he's publicly denied taking it. The NCAA considers lying about an infraction worse than the infraction itself.

Kansas that that one kid who allegedly got bought out of a deal with Marlyand, if the NCAA has any proof on that I expect he'll be suspended for good, it's pretty clear from that story the kid knew the alleged deal existed because he told people he'd already taken a deal to go to Maryland, so DeSousa wouldn't be able to claim he didn't know.

With Quinerly the problem is he claimed he took no money and if his mom did, he didn't know. And she claimed she took no money and if her son did, she didn't know, but she didn't think he did. It's entirely possible Book and the agent made up the whole story and just pocketed the money himself, but right now nobody really knows. Bowen said the same thing and there were all these stories about how he was transferring and the NCAA was going to let him play, possibly even last year, and then he left school and filed for the draft and is now signed to play for the Sydney Kings in Australia. The reality is he had no reason to think they were going to let him play despite insisting his dad took money without him knowing, so he went pro.

So there’s a $ to suspension ratio? It’s hard to imagine a player taking 45K and coming back for the tournament. Let’s say Quinerly admitted to taking money. That’s money coming from a guy committing a felony so I doubt he’s playing at all. And I doubt Jay Wright is playing him unless he’s sure.

The optics of letting him play through that, even if he paid it back, would be terrible.

 

[Russ Smith]

So there’s a $ to suspension ratio? It’s hard to imagine a player taking 45K and coming back for the tournament. Let’s say Quinerly admitted to taking money. That’s money coming from a guy committing a felony so I doubt he’s playing at all. And I doubt Jay Wright is playing him unless he’s sure.

The optics of letting him play through that, even if he paid it back, would be terrible.

There was, with new rules I don't know if there still is but the amount of suspension used to be a sliding scale with the severity of teh offense or amount of money. THat's why Kanter for example couldn't play, the NCAA ruled that he'd gotten over 100K plus because they counted the money he got as pay and education in one of those Euro youth setups as payments. At a certain point I actually sided with calipari on that one, he said why are they considering his Euro basketball upbringing as payments and not counting the same thing for an American kid who gets flown all around the country by AAU programs and goes to a prepschool for free?

 

[TJ]

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FTR - I don't think Jay Wright takes JQ unless he knows he'll be cleared. But if he plays one minute for Nova, that's a good sign for Arizona.

 

[GatorAZ]

Speaking of Jay Wright Nova makes the final cut.

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[Russ Smith]

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FTR - I don't think Jay Wright takes JQ unless he knows he'll be cleared. But if he plays one minute for Nova, that's a good sign for Arizona.

Ok but that's not "independent" Villanova investigated and they were the school he signed with. Independent would be someone with no rooting interest in him. Also, Nova wasn't remotely involved in him getting paid so their investigation is different, as I said his best chance to play is based on NOT being at Arizona. He didn't wind up at the school that was allegedly involved in paying him, via an assistant coach. That's why he decommitted in the first place, as soon as the story broke it was obvious any kid named in that was going to have to change schools to increase their odds of playing(recruits not current players).

Jay Wright has no idea if he'll be cleared or not, nobody does because we don't know what the NCAA has, if anything, from the FBi. But if they do have something, they're now allowed to use it, immediately. I still think his biggest issue is will the NCAA stick to their past habit of punishing the kid more for lying than for the actual violation. If they have proof he got money, then he lied about it publicly, will they nail him for that or will they consider it a different scenario with such a big public case and ignore him saying I didn't do anything(if he actually did).

 

[Russ Smith]

Speaking of Jay Wright Nova makes the final cut.

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Apparently a virtual lock to Arizona, just playing it out right now I suspect.

 

[Phrazbit]

Speaking of Jay Wright Nova makes the final cut.

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Wasn't somebody saying they knew his family or something and he had already given Kansas a verbal?

I feel like the next time a person on this site has "insider" information that proves to be accurate... will be the first time.

 

[GatorAZ]

Wasn't somebody saying they knew his family or something and he had already given Kansas a verbal?

I feel like the next time a person on this site has "insider" information that proves to be accurate... will be the first time.

Not sure if they were ever in it. The only team that didn’t make the cut that was surprising was UCLA.

Also Phoenix kid Josh Green is getting close to a decision.

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[Russ Smith]

Not sure if they were ever in it. The only team that didn’t make the cut that was surprising was UCLA.

Also Phoenix kid Josh Green is getting close to a decision.

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From what Gershon was reporting on BRO, UCLA had realized they weren't getting either Mannion or Green so they backed off both and were focusing on other kids. The primary one is Will Baker who looks quite a bit like TJ Leaf from the videos I've seen. So not a total shock they didn't make the final list of either Mannion or Green.

FWIW we are being told UA is probably getting both Mannion and Green. I love Green, I actually want him over Cassius Stanley who UCLA is still involved with(but he's going to USC). Mannion is really good but I don't like him as much as I like Green.

I think it was 82 that said Mannion had verballed to Kansas silently per some rumor at the school?

 

[GatorAZ]

From what Gershon was reporting on BRO, UCLA had realized they weren't getting either Mannion or Green so they backed off both and were focusing on other kids. The primary one is Will Baker who looks quite a bit like TJ Leaf from the videos I've seen. So not a total shock they didn't make the final list of either Mannion or Green.

FWIW we are being told UA is probably getting both Mannion and Green. I love Green, I actually want him over Cassius Stanley who UCLA is still involved with(but he's going to USC). Mannion is really good but I don't like him as much as I like Green.

I think it was 82 that said Mannion had verballed to Kansas silently per some rumor at the school?

Green and Mannion are both Under Armour kids and they’re only considering Nike schools with the exception of KU for Green. Times are changing.

 

[Russ Smith]

Green and Mannion are both Under Armour kids and they’re only considering Nike schools with the exception of KU for Green. Times are changing.

Yeah we've sort of noticed that so far Under Armour is not exactly good at steering kids to UCLA. I get the Maryland thing, they're in enough hot water already with the DeSousa stuff, but it's weird that other than Moses Brown, Under Armour seems to have any luck at all steering kids to UCLA.

And Mannion and Green actually played for UA Elite which was Earl Watson elite in the not so distant past.

 

[overseascardfan]

Yeah we've sort of noticed that so far Under Armour is not exactly good at steering kids to UCLA. I get the Maryland thing, they're in enough hot water already with the DeSousa stuff, but it's weird that other than Moses Brown, Under Armour seems to have any luck at all steering kids to UCLA.

And Mannion and Green actually played for UA Elite which was Earl Watson elite in the not so distant past.

Not sure if they are 100% a package deal but only schools still on both of their lists are UA and VILL. Jay Wright usually focuses his recruiting efforts in the East so interesting that he is branching out to west coast but 2 titles in 5 years certainly opens up doors.

 

[Russ Smith]

Not sure if they are 100% a package deal but only schools still on both of their lists are UA and VILL. Jay Wright usually focuses his recruiting efforts in the East so interesting that he is branching out to west coast but 2 titles in 5 years certainly opens up doors.

And remember Josh Green is from Australia so even though he's playing his AAU ball in the West, he no natural ties to the West, from Sydney, playing his HS ball at IMG academy in Florida. his only West Coast connection is the AAU program.

 

[overseascardfan]

And remember Josh Green is from Australia so even though he's playing his AAU ball in the West, he no natural ties to the West, from Sydney, playing his HS ball at IMG academy in Florida. his only West Coast connection is the AAU program.

I just looked at VILL targets and you're right, Mannion is the only west coast target. Makes you wonder if Mannion & Green really are a package deal.

 

[GatorAZ]

And remember Josh Green is from Australia so even though he's playing his AAU ball in the West, he no natural ties to the West, from Sydney, playing his HS ball at IMG academy in Florida. his only West Coast connection is the AAU program.

Yeah if he goes to SC something is seriously wrong. They already have the #1 class and full of wings. I believe he’s UNC bound and apparently it’s his dream school.

 

[TJ]

And remember Josh Green is from Australia so even though he's playing his AAU ball in the West, he no natural ties to the West, from Sydney, playing his HS ball at IMG academy in Florida. his only West Coast connection is the AAU program.

Green also played at Hillcrest Prep for a little while.

 

[82CardsGrad]

From what Gershon was reporting on BRO, UCLA had realized they weren't getting either Mannion or Green so they backed off both and were focusing on other kids. The primary one is Will Baker who looks quite a bit like TJ Leaf from the videos I've seen. So not a total shock they didn't make the final list of either Mannion or Green.

FWIW we are being told UA is probably getting both Mannion and Green. I love Green, I actually want him over Cassius Stanley who UCLA is still involved with(but he's going to USC). Mannion is really good but I don't like him as much as I like Green.

I think it was 82 that said Mannion had verballed to Kansas silently per some rumor at the school?

Yea. It was me. My daughter is in Nico’s class here at Pinnacle High. So my wife and I know his parents...though not nearly well enough to ask why he changed his views on Kansas. Kansas was the first team who came after Nico.
Personally, I’d love to see him remain in state!

 

[Russ Smith]

Green also played at Hillcrest Prep for a little while.

Yep I forgot but he played at 2 Arizona HS's before going to IMG