Minority coaches

[TruCard]

I don't understand why this is even an issue. Gotta love the media. Minorities dominate the playing field. Why isn't that an issue? What it basically comes down to is that teams need to start hiring more African-American coaches? What about Hispanics? How about Asians? What a joke. http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2012/story/_/id/8865835/nfl-mailbag-diversity-efforts-need-refining

 

[GuernseyCard]

I don't understand why this is even an issue. Gotta love the media. Minorities dominate the playing field. Why isn't that an issue? What it basically comes down to is that teams need to start hiring more African-American coaches? What about Hispanics? How about Asians? What a joke. http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2012/story/_/id/8865835/nfl-mailbag-diversity-efforts-need-refining

Evidently, you're not a minority.

The Rooney rule is an attempt to help address the hiring of minorities in coaching and front office positions by exposing them to more owners and GM's through the interview process. And it's "minorities" not blacks. Not perfect, by any means, but an understandable attempt in a league where the majority of players are black.

Your reference to players on the field is a silly non-sequitor (IMO) You sound like a fan from the 1940's and 50's who wanted a quota on the number of Blacks in baseball.

 

[Superfuzz]

I think it's a non-issue this year. Caldwell was only a year removed from coaching a 2-14 football team. Perhaps helping more minorities to break into coaching is the solution, but the fact that the only really viable candidates this year were Horton and Smith, all vying with probably roughly 20 or so other former HCs, OCs, DCs and college coaches for 8 spots makes it difficult. Horton and his readiness to be a HC have been discussed ad nauseam here, leaving Lovie.

That's one guy competing with 20 or so others for 8 musical chairs. The odds he doesn't get one based on many other factors than race are pretty good.

The thing that really gets me upset is the constant use in the media of the Caldwell example, though. Jason Reid used him in an article again yesterday. At least pick someone who just finished 10-6 to make your point!

Caldwell is in the SB, (and ironically that may be another reason why: no one wants to wait that long for a hire most of the time), but he only just began to put the pieces of his HC prospects back together when he was promoted to OC a mere few weeks ago. If the Ravens' O keeps it up for another year or two and he's still not getting consideration, THEN something's wrong.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Evidently, you're not a minority.

The Rooney rule is an attempt to help address the hiring of minorities in coaching and front office positions by exposing them to more owners and GM's through the interview process. And it's "minorities" not blacks. Not perfect, by any means, but an understandable attempt in a league where the majority of players are black.

Your reference to players on the field is a silly non-sequitor (IMO) You sound like a fan from the 1940's and 50's who wanted a quota on the number of Blacks in baseball.

Evidently you're a whining minority or suffering from white guilt. These owners OWN teams. They should have the right to interview and hire as they please. Anyone who thinks they would be where they are and fielding competitive ball clubs while discriminating against staff/personel on account of race is comical at best. Moving right along...

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

The owners and networks aren't ever going to say it, but it all has to do with their hair.

 

[Hollywood]

Evidently, you're not a minority.

The Rooney rule is an attempt to help address the hiring of minorities in coaching and front office positions by exposing them to more owners and GM's through the interview process. And it's "minorities" not blacks. Not perfect, by any means, but an understandable attempt in a league where the majority of players are black.

Your reference to players on the field is a silly non-sequitor (IMO) You sound like a fan from the 1940's and 50's who wanted a quota on the number of Blacks in baseball.

I'm a minority and I think the Rooney Rule is stupid.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

Evidently, you're not a minority.

The Rooney rule is an attempt to help address the hiring of minorities in coaching and front office positions by exposing them to more owners and GM's through the interview process. And it's "minorities" not blacks. Not perfect, by any means, but an understandable attempt in a league where the majority of players are black.

Your reference to players on the field is a silly non-sequitor (IMO) You sound like a fan from the 1940's and 50's who wanted a quota on the number of Blacks in baseball.

Asians and Jews are under-represented on the field and on coaching staffs. Hispanics as well. The NFL needs to do something about this now. The Rooney Rule should be expanded and all teams need to include an Asian, a Latino and a Jewish player on the roster

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

Asians and Jews are under-represented on the field and on coaching staffs. Hispanics as well. The NFL needs to do something about this now. The Rooney Rule should be expanded and all teams need to include an Asian, a Latino and a Jewish player on the roster

See how stupid it is, when its laid out clear as day?

 

[Cardiac]

Gentlemen.

There is a thing called diversity. Basically that means that your company has hiring practices that help achieve a representation of the population in your market. So if 60% of the population is Caucasion, 25% Black, 10% latino & 5% Asian then 60% or so of your employees should be Caucasion, 25% Black etc.

Now the NFL is different then your average business so instead of Latino's and Asians you have more Somoans because of physical attributes.

The thing is if your industry attracts certain traits then your upper management should reflect the employee base. So if 65% of the players are black then 65% of Coaches etc. should be black as well. Now maybe that's a bit unrealistic due to other factors but the fact that only 2 Coordinators that were hired this year were minorities has to raise a red flag.

The question is was it racism, or a lack of opportunity for minorities to have the ability to be trained to have a chance to become Coordinators. Maybe a combination of both?

One can and should remove race from this equation for a moment and simply discuss how everyone in the most diverse country in the world allows everyone a chance to improve their lot in life.

Countless studies have shown that a basic flaw in hiring practices is that an interviewer feels more comfortable hiring someone who reminds them of themselves. That doesn't always ensure you the best candidate was hired. So not only is it better to hire a diverse workforce for candidates but also the company as well.

For those who don't think you can legislate equality and fairness are a bit mistaken. No system is perfect but things have changed for the positive in the past 40 or so years since the government has started working on this.

Anyone ever watch Remember the Titans? How about Glory or Roots?

As a society we have come a long way but does anyone believe there still isn't room for imrovement?

 

[cardsfanmd]

The question is was it racism, or a lack of opportunity for minorities to have the ability to be trained to have a chance to become Coordinators. Maybe a combination of both?

or that the preferred candidates happened to not be black.

 

[Stout]

Gentlemen.

There is a thing called diversity. Basically that means that your company has hiring practices that help achieve a representation of the population in your market. So if 60% of the population is Caucasion, 25% Black, 10% latino & 5% Asian then 60% or so of your employees should be Caucasion, 25% Black etc.

Now the NFL is different then your average business so instead of Latino's and Asians you have more Somoans because of physical attributes.

The thing is if your industry attracts certain traits then your upper management should reflect the employee base. So if 65% of the players are black then 65% of Coaches etc. should be black as well. Now maybe that's a bit unrealistic due to other factors but the fact that only 2 Coordinators that were hired this year were minorities has to raise a red flag.

The question is was it racism, or a lack of opportunity for minorities to have the ability to be trained to have a chance to become Coordinators. Maybe a combination of both?

One can and should remove race from this equation for a moment and simply discuss how everyone in the most diverse country in the world allows everyone a chance to improve their lot in life.

Countless studies have shown that a basic flaw in hiring practices is that an interviewer feels more comfortable hiring someone who reminds them of themselves. That doesn't always ensure you the best candidate was hired. So not only is it better to hire a diverse workforce for candidates but also the company as well.

For those who don't think you can legislate equality and fairness are a bit mistaken. No system is perfect but things have changed for the positive in the past 40 or so years since the government has started working on this.

Anyone ever watch Remember the Titans? How about Glory or Roots?

As a society we have come a long way but does anyone believe there still isn't room for imrovement?

And there is the inherent flaw in the morality behind the modern atrocity of affirmative action. It is patently impossible to get exact population statistics to line up with employment statistics. It is never going to happen, and it is impossible, for myriad reasons--almost all of which have nothing to do with racism.

Problems occur when people try to shove diversity down everyone's throats with a program that is so flawed it lends itself to abuse (affirmative action, not the Rooney Rule). Yes, action needed to be taken, and yes, minorities needed to be protected in the work force, because workplace discrimination was rampant back then. We still have too much workplace discrimination in this country.

When law student candidates score significantly lower than others, yet still get in because of the color of their skin, however, I have a huuuuge problem. When highly qualified white candidates get passed over for promotion for much less qualified minority candidates because it is an 'affirmative action' promotion, I have a big problem.

My father suffered from this. He was the best worker his company had, but he ruffled management's feathers from time to time. He reached a point where he was really the only logical candidate for promotion, yet they would pass him over again and again, each time using a much less qualified minority to promote in his place. They promoted an ILLITERATE person one time, simply abusing the affirmative action law, because without that label, my father would have had ammunition for a law suit, as almost all of the promotions were clearly unfounded.

As to the Rooney Rule, I will give it a bit of credit. It's forced teams to interview minorities, which both gives them experience in the interview process, and gives teams exposure to the candidate. I can't remember who it was, but I think one team hired a coach because they were blown away with his interview. Other than a wee bit of good, the rule is effectively useless. We still have countless minorities that just get interviews because of the color of their skin, and have no shot at the job. And if a team knows exactly who they want already, and that candidate isn't a minority, racism is playing zero part in their decision.

 

[clif]

Evidently you're a whining minority or suffering from white guilt. These owners OWN teams. They should have the right to interview and hire as they please. Anyone who thinks they would be where they are and fielding competitive ball clubs while discriminating against staff/personel on account of race is comical at best. Moving right along...

Can you explain to me what a whining minority is?

 

[cardsfanmd]

Can you explain to me what a whining minority is?

Which word do you not know the meaning of?


whine*[*wīn*]***
complain peevishly:*to complain in an unreasonable, repeated, or irritating way
make high sorrowful sound:*to cry, moan, or plead with a long, plaintive, high-pitched sound
utter something in whining voice:*to say something in a plaintive high-pitched voice
Synonyms: grumble, gripe, complain, moan, bellyache, kvetch



mi·nor·i·ty*[*mi náwrətee*]***
smaller group:*a group of people or things that is a small part of a much larger group
group with insufficient votes to win:*a group that has fewer votes in an organization than another group or groups
smaller socially defined group:*a group of people, within a society, whose members have different ethnic, racial, national, religious, sexual, political, linguistic, or other characteristics from the rest of society
Synonyms: section, faction, interest group, subgroup, sector, component, element

 

[Mulli]

Don't the owners run the NFL? Didnt they decide to have the rule? Can't they decide to get rid of the rule?

 

[OJanderson32]

I'm a minority and I think the Rooney Rule is stupid.

Yes but what minority, you must not be black because any other minority in the NFL is so small they can't complain... the league is 70% black

 

[clif]

Which word do you not know the meaning of?


whine*[*wīn*]***
complain peevishly:*to complain in an unreasonable, repeated, or irritating way
make high sorrowful sound:*to cry, moan, or plead with a long, plaintive, high-pitched sound
utter something in whining voice:*to say something in a plaintive high-pitched voice
Synonyms: grumble, gripe, complain, moan, bellyache, kvetch



mi·nor·i·ty*[*mi náwrətee*]***
smaller group:*a group of people or things that is a small part of a much larger group
group with insufficient votes to win:*a group that has fewer votes in an organization than another group or groups
smaller socially defined group:*a group of people, within a society, whose members have different ethnic, racial, national, religious, sexual, political, linguistic, or other characteristics from the rest of society
Synonyms: section, faction, interest group, subgroup, sector, component, element

No I am asking for your definition. Maybe even an example or are you spouting crap off trying to get a rise out of people again?

 

[Mulli]

Which word do you not know the meaning of?


whine*[*wīn*]***
complain peevishly:*to complain in an unreasonable, repeated, or irritating way
make high sorrowful sound:*to cry, moan, or plead with a long, plaintive, high-pitched sound
utter something in whining voice:*to say something in a plaintive high-pitched voice
Synonyms: grumble, gripe, complain, moan, bellyache, kvetch



mi·nor·i·ty*[*mi náwrətee*]***
smaller group:*a group of people or things that is a small part of a much larger group
group with insufficient votes to win:*a group that has fewer votes in an organization than another group or groups
smaller socially defined group:*a group of people, within a society, whose members have different ethnic, racial, national, religious, sexual, political, linguistic, or other characteristics from the rest of society
Synonyms: section, faction, interest group, subgroup, sector, component, element

By that definition, you are a whining minority.

 

[CtCardinals78]

No I am asking for your definition. Maybe even an example or are you spouting crap off trying to get a rise out of people again?

Troll:

Pronunciation: /trəʊl, trɒl/

verb

informal submit a deliberately provocative posting to an online message board with the aim of inciting an angry response

It's what he does clif. Just put him on ignore.

 

[JeffGollin]

This thread is guaranteed to explode sooner or later, but what the bleep.

The Rooney Rule isn't an end-all, and owners certainly have every right to hire anyone they want. Further - there's an additional check & balance in the form of minority FA players warning one another to "Stay away from Team "A"; they don't treat brothers very well over there." (Hey! It's a free market - it's The American Way and it can cut in both directions).

Then you have the League (whose concern is The Big Picture - a national institution; some would say the "true National Past-time"). It's all about the "national brand" and how people, advertisers, sponsors and governmental funders of stadiums perceive and feel about the NFL product.

As such, IMO, they're less concerned about individual team situations and which teams hired what coaches than they are the overall outcome & diversity of HC and management composition at the end of the day. They just want to present the League in the most favorable light possible.

Logically, from their standpoint, they're likely to ask out loud: "Is it really too much to ask that each team involved in a a management search devote part of one day toward interviewing a minority candidate (regardless of the outcome) as a small attempt to open the door to future proportionate representation of minorities?"

In other words, the Rooney Rule isn't intended to be an end-all designed to "force" owners to do anything, but rather a "gateway" (however imperfect) to a a future outcome which will will benefit the League as a whole, and therefore all 32 member-teams.

 

[THESMEL]

Being black is not a disability in the NFL or modern america is my belief. Sometimes I wish others would aknowledge and celebrate the wonderful changes in this world since I was born in 1964- It is a fine day to be alive!

I wish we would talk more about the reduced be-headings and honor killings in the mid east in the last 10 years- yes it is not perfect and not our primary objective in the wars- but it is different forever - in a big way!

One disabled veterans opinion.

 

[Mitch]

I think the Rooney Rule draws unnecessary attention to race at this point.

I think it's actually an insult to highly qualified black candidates as if they could only be "token" candidates, when we all know that the vast majority of the time they are not token candidates at all.

Qualified people get jobs---

In the NFL the best players play, regardless of race.

The best coaches coach---

It used to be that there were almost no black QBs---

Black QBs didn't need a Rooney Rule---they just needed to be talented enough to win the jobs---

They sure have emerged as such, haven't they?

There is a plethora of talented black coaches all across America---

They too will emerge and have been emerging for quite some time---

The great thing about the NFL players and coaches is that it is a genuine fraternity which goes back many many decades now.

Did they need a Rooney Rule for Hall of Fame inductions?

Do they need one now?

As Maya Angelou said so aptly:

"Out of the huts of history's shame---I rise."

Maya Angelou didn't need a Rooney Rule for she is "a black ocean, leaping and wide."

And while America has come a long way from its insidiously racist past---yes, it needs to go a lot farther---but it is evolving in the right direction, thank the good Lord.

Especially in professional sports where brotherhoods continue to be forged by men and women who unite for a common purpose and cause.

 

[Cardiac]

or that the preferred candidates happened to not be black.

The preferred candidate my have been not a minority. A couple of issues, "preferred" meaning before or after the interview process? Let's keep it easy and say after.

So now it comes down to why were 90% of the preferred candidates non minorities? Is it because whites are inherently smarter or better leaders? If the answer is yes then case closed on whether there is racism involved.

So logical minds would say that for whatever reason minority candidates don't have the same opportunity to become better leaders etc.

While the Rooney Rule slightly opens the door it is far from fixing the root cause of the problem.

I agree that this is like trying to polish a turd is some sense. The turd being that even today certain demographic groups in certain areas of the country don't have access to the same schooling and opportunities as others. That's where we need to truly fix the problem but that is a much larger undertaking than what the Rooney Rule is trying to accomplish.

Know one care tell me that one race is superior to another when it comes to mental ability. So why does the NFL have such a disportionate amount of workers who are minorities and not close to the same amount in upper management?

And there is the inherent flaw in the morality behind the modern atrocity of affirmative action. It is patently impossible to get exact population statistics to line up with employment statistics. It is never going to happen, and it is impossible, for myriad reasons--almost all of which have nothing to do with racism.

Let's break out the scale and see which is worse. Slavery or affirmative action. So while affirmative action did impact some people's lives negatively it also helped others who haven't had a fair chance to improve themselves and their families.

Problems occur when people try to shove diversity down everyone's throats with a program that is so flawed it lends itself to abuse (affirmative action, not the Rooney Rule). Yes, action needed to be taken, and yes, minorities needed to be protected in the work force, because workplace discrimination was rampant back then. We still have too much workplace discrimination in this country.

I am open to a better plan but affirmative action is better than what we had previously. It's just not about protecting minorities but giving them a chance for a better life.

When law student candidates score significantly lower than others, yet still get in because of the color of their skin, however, I have a huuuuge problem. When highly qualified white candidates get passed over for promotion for much less qualified minority candidates because it is an 'affirmative action' promotion, I have a big problem.

Flawed and unfair, yes. But how fair was it for minorities previously. You know it takes a lot to fix ignorance and sometimes it takes extreme measures.

My father suffered from this. He was the best worker his company had, but he ruffled management's feathers from time to time. He reached a point where he was really the only logical candidate for promotion, yet they would pass him over again and again, each time using a much less qualified minority to promote in his place. They promoted an ILLITERATE person one time, simply abusing the affirmative action law, because without that label, my father would have had ammunition for a law suit, as almost all of the promotions were clearly unfounded.

Don't want to get into this because it's your father.

As to the Rooney Rule, I will give it a bit of credit. It's forced teams to interview minorities, which both gives them experience in the interview process, and gives teams exposure to the candidate. I can't remember who it was, but I think one team hired a coach because they were blown away with his interview. Other than a wee bit of good, the rule is effectively useless. We still have countless minorities that just get interviews because of the color of their skin, and have no shot at the job. And if a team knows exactly who they want already, and that candidate isn't a minority, racism is playing zero part in their decision.

There are many doors that need to be opened to give minorities a fair chance. Some have been and we see a lot of progress.

Unfortunately there is still a TON of work to be done and IMHO threads like this are proof of that. Not saying anyone who has posted here is racist. I just think that not enough of us have "walked in the other man's shoes".

Look, we now have a black President of the USA, and he was elected for a second term so that's HUGE progress. Well at least from the perspective that racism is dying out at some level.

The next hurdle would be electing a woman as President. Anyone want to stand up and say woman are inferior and couldn't handle the job.

Point is that there are still a lot of ignorant, sexist and racist people still in this world. Standing around with our hands in our pockets doing nothing or even worse actively arguing against trying to correct this is a huge problem.

How many Minority owners are there in the NFL? So it's coincidence that upper management has a skewed number of Caucasions?

Warren Moon went undrafted because there was the ignorant and racist view that blacks weren't smart enought to play QB in the NFL.

I do believe we are past that kind of thinking but it doesn't mean we still don't have a problem as a society.

I do feel bad for those who were casualties in the war against racism in regards to affirmative action. I simply feel worse for those who are still victims of racism.

 

[Cardiac]

This thread is guaranteed to explode sooner or later, but what the bleep.

The Rooney Rule isn't an end-all, and owners certainly have every right to hire anyone they want. Further - there's an additional check & balance in the form of minority FA players warning one other to "Stay away from Team "A"; they don't treat brothers very well over there." (Hey! It's a free market - it's The American Way and it can cut in both directions).

Then you have the League (whose concern is The Big Picture - a national institution; some would say the "true National Past-time"). It's all about the "national brand" and how people, advertisers, sponsors and governmental funders of stadiums perceive and feel about the NFL product.

As such, IMO, they're less concerned about individual team situations and which teams hired what coaches than they are the overall outcome & diversity of HC and management composition at the end of the day. They just want to present the League in the most favorable light possible.

Logically, from their standpoint, they're likely to ask out loud: "Is it really too much to ask that each team involved in a a management search devote part of one day toward interviewing a minority candidate (regardless of the outcome) as a small attempt to open the door to future proportionate representation minorities?"

In other words, the Rooney Rule isn't intended to be an end-all designed to "force" owners to do anything, but rather a "gateway" (however imperfect) to a a future outcome which will will benefit the League as a whole, and therefore all 32 member-teams.

Well stated.

I hope that the Rooney Rule isn't believed to be the final answer to what is a systemic issue.

 

[Cardiac]

I think the Rooney Rule draws unnecessary attention to race at this point.

I think it's actually an insult to highly qualified black candidates as if they could only be "token" candidates, when we all know that the vast majority of the time they are not token candidates at all.

Qualified people get jobs---

In the NFL the best players play, regardless of race.

The best coaches coach---

It used to be that there were almost no black QBs---

Black QBs didn't need a Rooney Rule---they just needed to be talented enough to win the jobs---

Warren Moon says what you talking about.

They sure have emerged as such, haven't they?

Yes they have and probably several generations later than they should have.

There is a plethora of talented black coaches all across America---

Yet most aren't getting the same chance in the NFL as their white peers.

They too will emerge and have been emerging for quite some time---

They will and the Rooney Rule will help expidite this. The flood gates have not opened up at this time though have they.

The great thing about the NFL players and coaches is that it is a genuine fraternity which goes back many many decades now.

I would say this is accurate, same thing with serving in the military. Extreme circumstances that force those who wouldn't normally interact and due to circumstance suddenly have to. One could surmize that it takes extreme circumstances to knock the ignorance out of people. Maybe the Rooney Rule isn't extreme enough?

Did they need a Rooney Rule for Hall of Fame inductions?

Yep, we see progress and for certain situations much faster progress.

Do they need one now?

As Maya Angelou said so aptly:

"Out of the huts of history's shame---I rise."

Maya Angelou didn't need a Rooney Rule for she is "a black ocean, leaping and wide."

Every race, religion and culture has those that are great people and in most circumstances they had to overcome huge obstacles. Just reinforces that the human race is flawed and knowing this we should all be working to make it better at every level possible.

And while America has come a long way from its insidiously racist past---yes, it needs to go a lot farther---but it is evolving in the right direction, thank the good Lord.

Agreed. Let's continue to take the "antibiotics" until the entire perscription is gone and not when it appears the symptoms have gone away.

Especially in professional sports where brotherhoods continue to be forged by men and women who unite for a common purpose and cause.

My opinion is that sports has done more than anything else to help eliminate racism. Thing is that in the NFL we still see it at some level when it pertains to the true "power" jobs. Keep taking your meds NFL, the disease is not fully cured yet.

 

[Southpaw]

Don't the owners run the NFL? Didnt they decide to have the rule? Can't they decide to get rid of the rule?

"no take back, touch black" was invoked.