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Mitch

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* Watched Gruden's QB Camp last night---highly entertaining---it almost feels like a football version of The Bachelor---who is Gruden going to give the final rose to?---well, this year it was a bit of a surprise---he gave the rose to Patrick Mahomes II, "the gunslinger." Gruden just loves the kid's extemporaneous way of throwing the football. He loves the mentality, even though he painstakingly took Mahomes through a film breakdown of two of the more regrettable mistakes he made last season in tight games that Texas Tech could have won.

* I thought that the best interviews Gruden had were with Deshaun Watson and Joshua Dobbs. Watson and Dobbs were the men amongst boys. Very mature, business-like, poised, charismatic and in command. Mitchell Trubisky is a likable kid but he looks starry-eyed. DeShone Kizer looks the part, but like Trubisky he seems like a junior headed to the senior prom. Nate Peterman was like the nice, try-hard guy on The Bachelor who you want to root for, but you just know he's not 'the one". But get him with the right coach, and who knows? Same with Brad Kaaya -- what a likable, very dedicated young man.

* Watched ESPN's draft room assimilation as their crew took the roles of the Browns', 49ers', Jets' and Saints' GMs, HCs and DOPPs (Directors of Player Personnel). The fascinating part was seeing them get on the phones to inquire about trades (The Pats wanted the #12, #33 and #52 picks for Jimmy G., for example---which the Browns shot down) and to field calls from teams about trading up (the 49ers wound up accepting a trade from Jets and got the #6 and #37 picks in return---the Jets took Trubisky at #2 and the 49ers wound up taking O.J. Howard at #6---both of which seemed very unrealistic, but entertaining none-the-less).

* The thing is---I would imagine that teams have already prepped for the various scenarios and wouldn't still be in full discussion mode about which players to pick. With each team there was a debate between 2 or 3 players and major division in the draft room. it made for interesting discussion---but I wondered what the players would think of this when Bill Polian was calling O.J. Hoard the "cleanest player on the board" in one breath and then calling Reuben Foster "an alpha dog filled with flies."

* I was hoping they would get to the Cardinals, but they finished with the Browns at #12. Just like ESPN to go to a commercial when the Cardinals are on the clock!

* Then when I crawled into bed, ESPN was playing the highlights of Super Bowl 43. 2:37. 2:37. Talk about game of inches -- and Antrell Rolle standing in the prohibited white sideline area preventing Fitz from making the tackle on Harrison ---and then Fitz going off in the 2nd half after Warner's nifty TD pass to TE Ben Patrick! Man, Fitz's TD bolt down the middle still gives me goosebumps.

* Was saddened to hear of Dan Rooney's passing. Early in my coaching career while at Trinity-Pawling School, in Pawling, NY, one day in practice 2 huge Mayflower moving vans pull up to the practice field and the next thing we know the drivers were pulling out brand new black and yellow 7 and 5 man sleds from the Pittsburgh Steelers. Plus, Steelers' goal post pads, which we immediately put on the goal posts. The reason? Dan Rooney's son, Danny was our QB. Apparently Danny wanted this to be a surprise --- it sure was! What a team that was at TP --- on that team were Mo Vaughn (Boston Red Sox), Kevin McClatchey (became GM of the Pittsburgh Pirates) and Mike McQuade (now the Executive Producer at ESPN). The Rooney family is all class --- and Dan Rooney was the best of the best and the kindest of the kindest.
 
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MadCardDisease

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* I was hoping they would get to the Cardinals, but they finished with the Browns at #12. Just like ESPN to go to a commercial when the Cardinals are on the clock!

It happens every time. Then when the come back the Cardinals will pick and ESPN will spend the next 5 minutes talking about what the Cowboys will do or did.

:bang:
 

az jam

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Good stuff Mitch. Sad news on Dan Rooney. He sure did a lot for the Steelers and the NFL.
 

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I watched the ESPN simulation as well and found it very interesting. The thing that really stuck out to me was, as you noted, when the Pats countered with all those pick for Jimmy. They did eventually turn it down, but Polian insisted it was a reasonable offer! I know he was a great GM in the past, but I can barely stand him anymore. Every time he talks about a rookie QB he insists they need to sit at least three years. It's not the 80's anymore Bill! Wrap your brain around it or go home!
 

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* Watched Gruden's QB Camp last night---highly entertaining---it almost feels like a football version of The Bachelor---who is Gruden going to give the final rose to?---well, this year it was a bit of a surprise---he gave the rose to Patrick Mahomes II, "the gunslinger." Gruden just loves the kid's extemporaneous way of throwing the football. He loves the mentality, even though he painstakingly took Mahomes through a film breakdown of two of the more regrettable mistakes he made last season in tight games that Texas Tech could have won.

Mitch, thank's for the recap. That show is always fun to watch.

I want them to take a quarterback this year, and I have been on record saying that I would draft Deshaun Watson with their selection in the first round. I stand by that statement. I will say, though, that another very exciting thing to me would be if they drafted Mahomes. Actually, I would find it kind of hard to fully appreciate it if they used their first pick on him, but still I think it would be highly interesting and fascinating because of what Keim and Arians obviously would think of him.

The reason I say that it would be an exciting pick is because of the offensive system and what Arians likes to do. Mahomes has all the athletic ability in the World, and he is a gunslinger with a cannon of an arm. If I am not mistaken, that was the exact scouting report on Ben Roethlisberger coming out of Ohio (Miami), and being drafted by the Steelers with Bruce Arians on the coaching staff. I believe that Mahomes' ceiling is the level of Roethlisberger, and though there is a very long road to get to that level, you have to start every journey by taking the first step, and no one should know the way better than Arians.

To me, a first round selection of Mahomes would be sort of the draft-realization of no risk it, no biscuit. Whether we like it or not.
 

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Obviously I'm a huge fan of Patrick Mahomes. What I saw when I watched him was a true alpha male, top competitor, with elite QB tools. He seemed to just ooze leadership. His supporting cast (defense) paled in comparison to the other QBs IMO.

His primary issue is that 1) he played in a funky offense 2) he takes a ton of risks.

I think #1 will ve mitigated by his work ethic and love of football. This kid would have been a top five pick in the MLB draft if he had wanted to play baseball, but football is his love. According to Texas Tech coaches, none of thr prior Air Raid QBs have ever had a mastery of the offense like he has. He has been described as having a high football IQ and a tremendous drive. That gives him a chance to learn and master an NFL offense.

As far as #2 is concerned, Mahomes HAD to take a ton of risks every game. Texas Tech easily had one of the worst defenses in the nation and Mahomes knew that the only chance they had to win was by his arm.

Why I really like him is that I see a kid that can sit on the bench and learn from Palmer and he can be unleashed a year from now. He would bring a new dynamic to Arians offense, the ability to elude defenders and throw the deep ball. When I watched him he reminded me a bit of Russell Wilson with better size and a much better arm, though he doesn't run as well.

This is why I see him as the best fit for thr Cardinals; he is a high ceiling developmental guy at the most important position on the field. If the Cardinals dont have a successor in place post-Palmer, this team will suck. Corey Davis can't fix that, Lattimore can't fix that, Foster can't fix that.

If the Cardinals pass on Mahomes I will understand; it's a big if that any QB will ever be great, but I think its hard to ignore Mahomes' ceiling. His ceiling is best player in this entire draft 5 yeara from now, and I don't think I'm exaggerating.
 
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Mitch

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Mitch, thank's for the recap. That show is always fun to watch.

I want them to take a quarterback this year, and I have been on record saying that I would draft Deshaun Watson with their selection in the first round. I stand by that statement. I will say, though, that another very exciting thing to me would be if they drafted Mahomes. Actually, I would find it kind of hard to fully appreciate it if they used their first pick on him, but still I think it would be highly interesting and fascinating because of what Keim and Arians obviously would think of him.

The reason I say that it would be an exciting pick is because of the offensive system and what Arians likes to do. Mahomes has all the athletic ability in the World, and he is a gunslinger with a cannon of an arm. If I am not mistaken, that was the exact scouting report on Ben Roethlisberger coming out of Ohio (Miami), and being drafted by the Steelers with Bruce Arians on the coaching staff. I believe that Mahomes' ceiling is the level of Roethlisberger, and though there is a very long road to get to that level, you have to start every journey by taking the first step, and no one should know the way better than Arians.

To me, a first round selection of Mahomes would be sort of the draft-realization of no risk it, no biscuit. Whether we like it or not.
Obviously I'm a huge fan of Patrick Mahomes. What I saw when I watched him was a true alpha male, top competitor, with elite QB tools. He seemed to just ooze leadership. His supporting cast (defense) paled in comparison to the other QBs IMO.

His primary issue is that 1) he played in a funky offense 2) he takes a ton of risks.

I think #1 will ve mitigated by his work ethic and love of football. This kid would have been a top five pick in the MLB draft if he had wanted to play baseball, but football is his love. According to Texas Tech coaches, none of thr prior Air Raid QBs have ever had a mastery of the offense like he has. He has been described as having a high football IQ and a tremendous drive. That gives him a chance to learn and master an NFL offense.

As far as #2 is concerned, Mahomes HAD to take a ton of risks every game. Texas Tech easily had one of the worst defenses in the nation and Mahomes knew that the only chance they had to win was by his arm.

Why I really like him is that I see a kid that can sit on the bench and learn from Palmer and he can be unleashed a year from now. He would bring a new dynamic to Arians offense, the ability to elude defenders and throw the deep ball. When I watched him he reminded me a bit of Russell Wilson with better size and a much better arm, though he doesn't run as well.

This is why I see him as the best fit for thr Cardinals; he is a high ceiling developmental guy at the most important position on the field. If the Cardinals dont have a successor in place post-Palmer, this team will suck. Corey Davis can't fix that, Lattimore can't fix that, Foster can't fix that.

If the Cardinals pass on Mahomes I will understand; it's a big if that any QB will ever be great, but I think its hard to ignore Mahomes' ceiling. His ceiling is best player in this entire draft 5 yeara from now, and I don't think I'm exaggerating.

I am starting to concede that this off-season is more geared toward the future than the present. It's a tough emotional transition for me to make, especially after watching the ESPN replay of Super Bowl 43 last night.

That being the case, I think Mahomes has the highest ceiling. But I really like Watson and Dobbs (as a 3rd or 4th round pick) as well.

I wonder if the Browns will take Mahomes at #12 or another team trades up to #12 to take him. Mahomes is being linked to the Cardinals pretty heavily these days -- especially after the whole crew (BA&SK&MB) was on hand during his visit. As we saw last year, Michael Bidwill wants to be involved in the selection of the 1st round pick.

The good news is -- the more QBs taken in picks 1-12, the more likely one of the prize defensive players will be available at #13. I have already conceded that RB/WR/PR Christian McCaffrey will be a top 12 pick. I also think that SS Adams, CB Mattimore and FS Hooker will be top 12 picks.

Which has me constantly debating over ILB Foster, ILB/OLB Reddick and S Jabrill Peppers.

I am concerned about Foster's short and long-term durability. At least HB was a 3rd rounder. if a 1st rounder goes on the shelf repeatedly, man that would be tough.

I love that Reddick can chase, cover, blitz like a madman and spy. I love too that he could play some on the edge in the 34 when the coaches slide Chandler Jones down to CC's 5 technique. Moving Jones around the way the Pats did, is a good strategy. Plus giving him some breathers can help keep him fresh for the 4th quarters.

I love that Peppers could be one of our three nickel safeties---he too can chase, cover, blitz and spy---and we finally get a bona fide home run threat as a punt returner.

It's a tough call.

Regarding CB, there are so many good ones in this draft, I could see waiting until Day 2 or even the 4th round to take one of the good ones.

I also love OLB Charles Harris of Missouri. Man what burst and bend off the edge. In this day and age I really think you need three good edge rushers.

But recently I am mostly going back and forth between Reddick and Peppers.
 

JeffGollin

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I know this goes against the grain of fan sentiment here, and ignores "good science" in favor of "gut-feel" but:

After watching Mahomes on Gruden and other interviews, Mahomes just doesn't come across as having the steady leadership of, say, Carson Palmer.

So OK, he's still a kid and should mature with more experience, but my feeling is that Watson, Trubitsky, Webb etc. have a more stable field presence than Mahomes.

Is this the guy I want next to me under live fire in a fox-hole? Maybe I'm totally off base here - & if so, apologies to Patrick. But I'd be lying if I didn't admit to being a tad uneasy.
 
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Mitch

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I know this goes against the grain of fan sentiment here, and ignores "good science" in favor of "gut-feel" but:

After watching Mahomes on Gruden and other interviews, Mahomes just doesn't come across as having the steady leadership of, say, Carson Palmer.

So OK, he's still a kid and should mature with more experience, but my feeling is that Watson, Trubitsky, Webb etc. have a more stable field presence than Mahomes.

Is this the guy I want next to me under live fire in a fox-hole? Maybe I'm totally off base here - & if so, apologies to Patrick. But I'd be lying if I didn't admit to being a tad uneasy.

Mahomes came across in the studio as a jovial, fun-loving kid. I was thinking the same thing, Jeff. But, when he got on the field, he looked very much in charge. Gruden was clearly impressed with him when it came time to manage the huddle, call the plays and execute them.

Here's today's article about Patrick Mahomes on azcardinals.com:

http://www.azcardinals.com/news-and...Mahomes-/7977ed63-82c2-4f31-8734-a8eee4dfe3aa
 

Reign Blood

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Awesome random. My random..

The Jimmy Trade if it happens will totally change the look of what pick by who in what round.
 

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According to Texas Tech coaches, none of thr prior Air Raid QBs have ever had a mastery of the offense like he has.

That may be true, but Daniel Jeremiah was on The Ringer NFL Show this week and said that when he watched Mahomes, particularly on third down and 6+, almost all his plays were outside the structure of the offense. I think that an inability or unwillingness to play within the system is what doomed Logan Thomas here.
 

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I really want to like Watson, dude is a winner but every time people talk about him, his arm and throwing ability is like the third to fourth thing they mention. Those intangibles are huge but he is a QB and one would think that arm ability would be a emphasis more readily. Mention Mahomes and the first thing people talk about is his arm, powerful and accurate and the footwork be damned. If the Cards select either, I would be happy because people who know more than me in Keim and Arians made the selection but right now I would rather have Mahomes... and a gunslinger with a country accent helps too :raccoon:
 

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* Watched Gruden's QB Camp last night---highly entertaining---it almost feels like a football version of The Bachelor---who is Gruden going to give the final rose to?---well, this year it was a bit of a surprise---he gave the rose to Patrick Mahomes II, "the gunslinger." Gruden just loves the kid's extemporaneous way of throwing the football. He loves the mentality, even though he painstakingly took Mahomes through a film breakdown of two of the more regrettable mistakes he made last season in tight games that Texas Tech could have won.

* I thought that the best interviews Gruden had were with Deshaun Watson and Joshua Dobbs. Watson and Dobbs were the men amongst boys. Very mature, business-like, poised, charismatic and in command. Mitchell Trubisky is a likable kid but he looks starry-eyed. DeShone Kizer looks the part, but like Trubisky he seems like a junior headed to the senior prom. Nate Peterman was like the nice, try-hard guy on The Bachelor who you want to root for, but you just know he's not 'the one". But get him with the right coach, and who knows? Same with Brad Kaaya -- what a likable, very dedicated young man.

* Watched ESPN's draft room assimilation as their crew took the roles of the Browns', 49ers', Jets' and Saints' GMs, HCs and DOPPs (Directors of Player Personnel). The fascinating part was seeing them get on the phones to inquire about trades (The Pats wanted the #12, #33 and #52 picks for Jimmy G., for example---which the Browns shot down) and to field calls from teams about trading up (the 49ers wound up accepting a trade from Jets and got the #6 and #37 picks in return---the Jets took Trubisky at #2 and the 49ers wound up taking O.J. Howard at #6---both of which seemed very unrealistic, but entertaining none-the-less).

* The thing is---I would imagine that teams have already prepped for the various scenarios and wouldn't still be in full discussion mode about which players to pick. With each team there was a debate between 2 or 3 players and major division in the draft room. it made for interesting discussion---but I wondered what the players would think of this when Bill Polian was calling O.J. Hoard the "cleanest player on the board" in one breath and then calling Reuben Foster "an alpha dog filled with flies."

* I was hoping they would get to the Cardinals, but they finished with the Browns at #12. Just like ESPN to go to a commercial when the Cardinals are on the clock!

* Then when I crawled into bed, ESPN was playing the highlights of Super Bowl 43. 2:37. 2:37. Talk about game of inches -- and Antrell Rolle standing in the prohibited white sideline area preventing Fitz from making the tackle on Harrison ---and then Fitz going off in the 2nd half after Warner's nifty TD pass to TE Ben Patrick! Man, Fitz's TD bolt down the middle still gives me goosebumps.

* Was saddened to hear of Dan Rooney's passing. Early in my coaching career while at Trinity-Pawling School, in Pawling, NY, one day in practice 2 huge Mayflower moving vans pull up to the practice field and the next thing we know the drivers were pulling out brand new black and yellow 7 and 5 man sleds from the Pittsburgh Steelers. Plus, Steelers' goal post pads, which we immediately put on the goal posts. The reason? Dan Rooney's son, Danny was our QB. Apparently Danny wanted this to be a surprise --- it sure was! What a team that was at TP --- on that team were Mo Vaughn (Boston Red Sox), Kevin McClatchey (became GM of the Pittsburgh Pirates) and Mike McQuade (now the Executive Producer at ESPN). The Rooney family is all class --- and Dan Rooney was the best of the best and the kindest of the kindest.


All these years, I never noticed that Fitz ran into Rolle on the side lines that slowed him down. I just rewatched the run and you are right! Fitz hit him hard and kept going. If only he wasn't in the way!
 

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Mahomes came across in the studio as a jovial, fun-loving kid. I was thinking the same thing, Jeff. But, when he got on the field, he looked very much in charge. Gruden was clearly impressed with him when it came time to manage the huddle, call the plays and execute them.

Here's today's article about Patrick Mahomes on azcardinals.com:

http://www.azcardinals.com/news-and...Mahomes-/7977ed63-82c2-4f31-8734-a8eee4dfe3aa


Mahomes reminds me of Brett Farve when he first started in the NFL for the Packers after being traded by the Falcons. Great talent but really just a fun loving kid. It took Brett a while to mature and really understand the game.
 
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RugbyMuffin

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* Then when I crawled into bed, ESPN was playing the highlights of Super Bowl 43. 2:37. 2:37. Talk about game of inches -- and Antrell Rolle standing in the prohibited white sideline area preventing Fitz from making the tackle on Harrison ---and then Fitz going off in the 2nd half after Warner's nifty TD pass to TE Ben Patrick! Man, Fitz's TD bolt down the middle still gives me goosebumps.

Why bring that up Mitch ? Ugh. Play of the game, that and Boldin jumping up and down instead of tackling Harrison in the endzone..........well, Boldin, Rolle, and not running the ball inside the five on second down.
 

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That may be true, but Daniel Jeremiah was on The Ringer NFL Show this week and said that when he watched Mahomes, particularly on third down and 6+, almost all his plays were outside the structure of the offense. I think that an inability or unwillingness to play within the system is what doomed Logan Thomas here.

Please tell me you're not comparing Mahomes to Logan Thomas!!!
 
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Obviously I'm a huge fan of Patrick Mahomes. What I saw when I watched him was a true alpha male, top competitor, with elite QB tools. He seemed to just ooze leadership. His supporting cast (defense) paled in comparison to the other QBs IMO.

His primary issue is that 1) he played in a funky offense 2) he takes a ton of risks.

I think #1 will ve mitigated by his work ethic and love of football. This kid would have been a top five pick in the MLB draft if he had wanted to play baseball, but football is his love. According to Texas Tech coaches, none of thr prior Air Raid QBs have ever had a mastery of the offense like he has. He has been described as having a high football IQ and a tremendous drive. That gives him a chance to learn and master an NFL offense.

As far as #2 is concerned, Mahomes HAD to take a ton of risks every game. Texas Tech easily had one of the worst defenses in the nation and Mahomes knew that the only chance they had to win was by his arm.

Why I really like him is that I see a kid that can sit on the bench and learn from Palmer and he can be unleashed a year from now. He would bring a new dynamic to Arians offense, the ability to elude defenders and throw the deep ball. When I watched him he reminded me a bit of Russell Wilson with better size and a much better arm, though he doesn't run as well.

This is why I see him as the best fit for thr Cardinals; he is a high ceiling developmental guy at the most important position on the field. If the Cardinals dont have a successor in place post-Palmer, this team will suck. Corey Davis can't fix that, Lattimore can't fix that, Foster can't fix that.

If the Cardinals pass on Mahomes I will understand; it's a big if that any QB will ever be great, but I think its hard to ignore Mahomes' ceiling. His ceiling is best player in this entire draft 5 yeara from now, and I don't think I'm exaggerating.


+ 1,000,000

This kid is going to be special. I wouldn't care if the Cards traded up from 13 to get him. I think he will be that good.
 

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+ 1,000,000

This kid is going to be special. I wouldn't care if the Cards traded up from 13 to get him. I think he will be that good.

Now, I don't know about the 1st pick, but he's my favorite player at the 13th pick. I think he is a future Pro Bowl QB. He makes throws only a few QBs can make.
 

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Mahomes is a dumb as rocks country bumpkin. Please tell me we will not draft that gimmick baseball player impersonating as a NFL candidate for a starting role at the quarterback position. His footwork is putrid which goes to show for his penchant of spraying the ball all over the field and his lack of accuracy. Not to mention the time at Texas Tech when he got a few grass spurs on his cleats and cried like a baby when someone tried to remove them, and don't get me started on how he would blame his grandmother for all his mistakes and never even acknowledge his grandfather

(disclaimer, it is well known how much the rest of the NFL teams value our opinion on ASFN and we do not need the Niners or Browns drafting this guy)
 
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Mitch, I know I'm getting old when you speak of Dan Rooney. Back in the late sixties, when I was working at the Draft, it was held at the Biltmore Plaza in NYC, and was much more low key than today's Draft, and Dan was one of the young guys at the Steelers table. No public, just media (Howard Cosell and Dave Anderson come to mind) and workers in attendance.
 
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That's awesome, Garth! What was your assignment? How cool it must have been to work at the draft!
 

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Quarterbacks...........the Cardinals have to invest in the position, but the Andrew Luck's of the NFL come along once every 5 years or so.

Watson, Trubisky, Mahomes, Kizer, Davis Webb, Nate Peterson, Brad Kaaya......they all have their warts, and short comings.

All I ask is the Cardinals draft a QB. It will be either a great and needed move, or a complete bust. That is drafting QB's in the NFL these days.

Not to mention the Cardinals need to think about not only the starting position but the backup position as well, Stanton is not getting any younger.

Just have to invest in the position.
 

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