MJ on Cards losing a week of practice due to violations

[RugbyMuffin]

Point 2, yes being in shape helps prevent injuries, but hitting and practicing in pads DOES lead to more injuries, that's why there's a constant give and take in the NFL among coaches over how much to do it. There's a constant cycle one team wins with little contact in practice and everyone jumps on the bandwagon, then when they lose, they increase the contact hoping that will fix the problem.

Well, from MY EXPERIENCE, which does not mean I am 100% correct, hitting in practice leads to a better physicall game by your players. AND it does help prevent injury. But my sport was rugby and it is 2 different things. I played football but not in college or the NFL, so maybe things are different.

Yet, I have seen the difference. The teams I did play rugby on hit ever Wed. and it was full out contact. Did guys get injured? Yep. 1 or 2 the whole year. But NOBODY got injured during games, and furthermore were able to take a heck of a lot more punnishment on the field.
During my last year, and the years following we stopped hitting at practice. The only result were less injuries in practice, zero, and 5 to 10 injuries per year on the game field. And furthermore our team became weak and prone to shy away from contact.

You hit now and take the pain now, you will embrace the contact later, and stil healthy.

Again this is just from my personal experience.

BTW - both sides makes good points. I just think for a team with a "dominating beast of a OL" we should get a flame in the butt to start smashing people.

Peace

 

[AzCards21]

My first reaction is, so what? We lose a weeks worth of workouts but what needed done was hammered out early.

This in no way precludes players from working on their own and reporting back how they did. It also in no way precludes the coaches from assigning a little "homework", wink, wink.

This team has consistantley been the worst over damn near the lifetime of the franchise. It's about time we are pushing the envelope instead of floating somewhere near not trying and afraid to make a move lest we piss someone off.

Things are changing, that's for sure. Now if it results in an above .500 season us, the players and the NFL won't give a crap.

Green is sending a message. Come here to play your a** off or don't come at all. It's about time.

Another calculated move to determine and eliminate the riff raff? Maybe, or I'm giving Green too much credit. If it's the latter we're going 4-12 or worse anyway and who cares about losing a week of training.

 

[NeverSayDieFan]

Re: League penalty--This is GOOD news!!

I hate--re-peat--hate pre-season football. ie;practices, games, etc. Why?? Because guys get hurt and are lost for the season. To me, the goal in pre-season is to simply "survive", and go into the regular season healthy & whole. As for negative backlash/division within the team, etc. I believe DG is in charge, and if a player pushes him too far w/mediocre play, refusing to try & get better, whatever--they'll be gone. Plain & simple. I personally would not be proud of a 4-12 record and realize that things need to be done differently. I have NEVER heard an NFL player say, "I want to be associated w/a loser." So DG's "train" is pulling out--and the message is--Get on board and taste success--OR get left!! You choose!!

 

[slanidrac16]

Quote form az card:

This team has consistantley been the worst over damn near the lifetime of the franchise. It's about time we are pushing the envelope instead of floating somewhere near not trying and afraid to make a move lest we piss someone off.


I agree whole heartedly. Whats the big deal? It shows me Green pushed these guys to the limit. Camp Mac is now officially closed. On the other side of the coin, I am a union man all the way. If rules were being broken, so be it, pay the price( in this case sanction) and move on.

What would have REALLY bothered me is if players would have walked off the practice field. Nobody did. Nobody quit. Thats a good sign.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

I don't understand the anger directed towards the players when it was the coach who broke the rules.

Does anyone know if the player/s involved tried to talk to Denny or Cards management, before bringing in the NFLPA?

 

[cardpa]

Lets put this in perspective. You have to push back when someone goes beyond what is written into the league rules. I don't fault the players for complaining so it doesn't become habit. Green should stay within the rules. However from Green's perspective I figure he knew he was overstepping the boundries as it were just to see what he has and where he needs to go. What players really want to be part of a successful franchise and which are on the gravytrain.

I believe green knew he would get a slap on the wrists for this and did it on purpose. I think almost all of us would agree sometimes you bend the rules because it helps you see what you have to work with and whos willing to work and learn. I think he sees it as these guys make big money and they should be willing to work for it.

Green is panning for gold here.

 

[JeffGollin]

Originally Posted by JeffGollin
They ran 11 on 11 with NO PADS. Pads are not allowed in minicamps.
Ahem. Rugby - I never posted this. (I may have repeated it as part of my reply to it, but it waren't me who originally posted this).

 

[daytripper]

I wonder if some of the initial complaining is what got Shipp and Shelton demoted?

 

[CardLogic]

I wonder if some of the initial complaining is what got Shipp and Shelton demoted?

Wasn't Shelton held out of practices because he was/is still recuperating from surgery? Big was named first team because Shelton wasn't ready to go, right?

 

[Sam Wise]

I am not sure exactly what the violations were or even ifr they were legitimate, but all these sanctions came about because of an incident that Coach Green was linked to a copuple years ago. When Korey Stringer died everyone had to take a step back and consider the ramifications of "Strenuous" practices. Regardless of any chemicals in his body or the circumstances involved, when Stringer fell everything changed. That incident is the main cause for the rulings and the sanctions laid down by the League. Founded or not Green being involved to these allegations probably made it easier for the league pull the trigger on handing down the sanctions.

 

[joeshmo]

I am not sure exactly what the violations were or even ifr they were legitimate, but all these sanctions came about because of an incident that Coach Green was linked to a copuple years ago. When Korey Stringer died everyone had to take a step back and consider the ramifications of "Strenuous" practices. Regardless of any chemicals in his body or the circumstances involved, when Stringer fell everything changed. That incident is the main cause for the rulings and the sanctions laid down by the League. Founded or not Green being involved to these allegations probably made it easier for the league pull the trigger on handing down the sanctions.

Not true no changes in the rules have changed becuase of the Stringer incident.

I have read a lot of misconceptions about the CBA agreement and what rules we violated.

A few misconceptions:

11 on 11 drills is premitted in mini camps.
There are no rules against how strenous a practice can or can not be.

Here are the exact rules concerning the use and rules of Mini-camp.

(look at article 37 for the rules on PRE-SEASON TRAINING CAMPS, and article 35 for the rules on OFF-SEASON WORKOUTS)

http://www.nflpa.org/members/main.asp?subPage=CBA+Complete#art36

ARTICLE XXXVI



MINICAMPS

Section 1. Number: Each League Year each Club may hold a maximum of one mandatory minicamp for veteran players. If a Club hires a new head coach after the end of the regular season, that Club may hold two additional voluntary minicamps for veteran players. There is no limitation on the number of minicamps a Club may hold for rookie players.

Section 2. Length: No minicamp may exceed three days in length, plus one day for physical examinations. If possible, minicamps should be scheduled for weekends and not in conflict with previously scheduled meetings of the NFLPA Board of Reps or the annual NFLPA convention.

Section 3. Expenses: Any veteran player who attends a minicamp will receive meal allowances in accordance with Article XXXIX (Meal Allowance), Section 1 of this Agreement, plus all travel expenses to and from the camp, plus “per diem” payments at the rate provided in Article XXXVII (Salaries), Section 4 of this Agreement. In addition, the Club will provide housing at minicamps for players coming from out‑of‑town.

Section 4. Contact: There will be no contact work (e.g., “live” blocking, tackling, pass rushing, bump‑and‑run) or use of pads (helmets permitted) at minicamps.

Section 5. Injuries: Any player injured in a Club’s minicamp will be protected in the same manner as if injured during the Club’s pre‑season training camp.

As you can see we broke section 4 of article 36.

 

[Sam Wise]

WOW!!!!! Johnny on the Spot.

 

[SECTION 11]

WOW!!!!! Johnny on the Spot.

Shmo's the man.

 

[Red Hog]

1. I wouldn't be surprised if DG did this on purpose to weed out the crybabies on the team. Remember the title of DG's book NO ROOM FOR CRYBABIES. The guys who cried better watch out now.

2. He has cut pro-bowlers, he has cut 1st round draft picks - DG is not afraid to cut anyone who doesn't fit his system. No player who ratted is safe.

3. Player's job is safe because of this he had to do his job. In fact it looks like he waited to do it. If he gets cut it will be due to performance not this.

 

[cardsunsfan]

Red Hog = Vikesfan?

 

[cardsunsfan]

and possibly Sam Wise = NEM?

 

[Russ Smith]

1. I wouldn't be surprised if DG did this on purpose to weed out the crybabies on the team. Remember the title of DG's book NO ROOM FOR CRYBABIES. The guys who cried better watch out now.

2. He has cut pro-bowlers, he has cut 1st round draft picks - DG is not afraid to cut anyone who doesn't fit his system. No player who ratted is safe.

3. Player's job is safe because of this he had to do his job. In fact it looks like he waited to do it. If he gets cut it will be due to performance not this.

Well if DG cut Player now he'd be an idiot. Not only is he our best punter, he's the player rep for the team and it would be BLATANTLY obvious if Green
cut him now that he was taking the heat for the situation. The players union wouldn't stand for that. DG is not stupid I don't think he'd push it that far.

Nice find Joeshmo, so from what Skorp said they weren't in pads but they
were in effect doing "contact work" which violated that section.

Nice to see they have that clause in there about guys being injured too, of course what it doesn't say is basically what that means is if you're already under contract and get injured, the team will simply negotiate an injury settlement and cut you. The only guys with a lot of protection are big salary guys, or rookies who have the injury waiver.

Which is why when everyone complained about Bryant not working out because the Cards wouldn't sign the waiver, I took Wendell's side. That's the only protection he had there as a rookie with no contract, and ultimately it led to the change in how we do business which was long overdue.

VF is so subtle you almost can't tell it's him

 

[Sam Wise]

BITE ME SUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Them's fightin wurds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[AzCards21]

What would have REALLY bothered me is if players would have walked off the practice field. Nobody did. Nobody quit. Thats a good sign.

True enough! Nobody refused to stay. A few may have whined but every man knew if he let up or refused to participate he would be jobless. This won't be neccessary next year. Green is trying to eliminate the slackers now so we don't have to worry about them next season.

 

[Duckjake]

Nice to see they have that clause in there about guys being injured too, of course what it doesn't say is basically what that means is if you're already under contract and get injured, the team will simply negotiate an injury settlement and cut you. The only guys with a lot of protection are big salary guys, or rookies who have the injury waiver.

True, but a lot of the players have disability insurance. Pays so much money per month for specified periods or a lump sum should they be injured and unable to play football.

And since they are all college grads they will all be able to get white collar jobs after football .

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Wait until training camp opens and Green can really turn up the intensity. These players will think that mini camp was a walk in the park.I don't know if there are too many limitations on how hard or long you can go in camp but i guarantee Green will get back the week he lost and then some.Like Green says,"there's a new sheriff in town" and he's going to make Sheriff Joe look like a pussycat. I'll bet Green also knows who complained.Maybe it was Ray Thompson. Didn't he and Green have to have a talk to see if Thompson really wanted to be on the team?

 

[TJAM]

DG did not loose a week of practice .............He gained about 4 to 6 weeks of practice and was more than happy to trade 1 for 6.

The strangest things written tend to be about the Million dollar babies..........well thats only about 20 percent of the team..........unless the other 80 percent got raises.

As far as intensity, where is the banter about the number of players who now have injuries due to the illegal 11 on 11 without pads that have maybe a month to heal before real workouts and a season starts. You won't have to be worrying about the 'whiners' because the will be physically unable to perform and on the DL.