MLB Steroid Melodrama

[Djaughe]

Dunno about the legalities of having elbow surgery just to have a stronger tendon...kinda seems pretty unethical and risky for a doctor to even do that.

But considering the history about steroids (i.e. olympic track n field, german swim team, etc) - the world community has taken an approach that performance enhancing drugs taint the achievements of record holders and doesn't belong in the competative arena.

I as a baseball fan don't feel comfortable in having 100+ years of baseball records get tarnished by a person taking drugs to not only artifically enhance his physical skills ...but prolong his longevity in the game.

 

[Ryanwb]

That is exactly my point. what would stop a father from having his son go through surgery just so he can get the stronger tendon and throw harder?


If they want to eliminate "performance enhancers" then why not limit what types of medical procedures can be done? Its a little out there, but I can see the comparison

I played baseball for a number of years up to college and it is not a matter of IF you need TJ surgery it is when. So guys are having their kids get the surgery to be ahead of the curve. Also it does enable you to throw harder... atleast 3-4 MPH faster. There were a few guys on my JUCO team that had the surgery done. The only way you could tell was they had this little scar on their forearm

it's scary stuff...

 

[cards 24-7-365]

I wasn't aware that kids were getting TJ's at 13-14 to enhance performance. That is insane and not very ethical. I can't believe a surgeon would put his medical career on the line to do such an unethical type of surgery.

Why not just put the kid through the rehab / training without getting the surgery? It would have similar effects. I hate when parents try to live throught their children.

 

[Ryanwb]

I wasn't aware that kids were getting TJ's at 13-14 to enhance performance. That is insane and not very ethical. I can't believe a surgeon would put his medical career on the line to do such an unethical type of surgery.

Why not just put the kid through the rehab / training without getting the surgery? It would have similar effects. I hate when parents try to live throught their children.

They just had a show on Real Sports about it about 3 weeks ago, it was pretty shocking what these Dad's are doing to their kids. They make these kids play baseball 12 months a year, no wonder they need TJ surgery.

What I found to be ironic was they went the Detroit tigers spring training and asked most of their pitchers what it took to get into the majors and all of them said they didn't start really taking baseball seriously until high school and college. Bottom line: If you have talent, the scouts will find you

 

[cards 24-7-365]

I played baseball for a number of years up to college and it is not a matter of IF you need TJ surgery it is when. So guys are having their kids get the surgery to be ahead of the curve. Also it does enable you to throw harder... atleast 3-4 MPH faster. There were a few guys on my JUCO team that had the surgery done. The only way you could tell was they had this little scar on their forearm

it's scary stuff...

Yeah, the scar and they missed a whole season. Replacing the ligament does not make you throw harder. It is the focused training and rehab necessary to recover from such an extensive surgery. If you took a year off from competitive baseball and focused all your energy on training your entire body (legs, core, upper body, rotator cuff) to throw harder and go through a structured supervised throwing program you to would throw 3-4 mph harder too.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I don't think parents or coaches are simply taking kids to surgeons and making them get TJ to improve their velocity. I think kids are getting TJ early because they blow their arms out at a young age due to parents and coaches recklessly overworking them knowing that they have TJ surgery to fall back on without a decline in performance.

 

[cards 24-7-365]

They just had a show on Real Sports about it about 3 weeks ago, it was pretty shocking what these Dad's are doing to their kids. They make these kids play baseball 12 months a year, no wonder they need TJ surgery.

I missed that. That is crazy. Let a kid play a bunch of different sports and develop some athleticism and as they get older they can specialize. This club sports scene is out of control. Most of these kids probably end up hating baseball by the time they get to high school.

 

[Djaughe]

I read that a doctor claimed that the number of kids who've had TJ surgery increased 300% for the last three years before they reach high school...thats unreal.

 

[cards 24-7-365]

I don't think parents or coaches are simply taking kids to surgeons and making them get TJ to improve their velocity. I think kids are getting TJ early because they blow their arms out at a young age due to parents and coaches recklessly overworking them knowing that they have TJ surgery to fall back on without a decline in performance.

I hope you are right. Like I said I unfortunately missed Real Sports. Still sad that parents think they have the ace up the sleeve with the TJ and overwork and over pitch those kids. Sports are not supposed to be so competitive at such a young age. Have fun and learn the game.

 

[clif]

so would a kid with a replaced or repaired tendon be considered "cheating"? they would certainly have an advantage in some areas, that they would not have had under normal circumstances.


What about the advances in medical procedures today that allow athletes to recover from injury sooner. Isn't this cheating since players in earlier era's didn't have the chance to use these advantages? Where do we draw the line?


Twenty or thirty years from now when they are able to replace arms with fully functional robotic ones or something.. what will they do then... ?? Makes you wonder.

 

[cards 24-7-365]

What about the advances in medical procedures today that allow athletes to recover from injury sooner. Isn't this cheating since players in earlier era's didn't have the chance to use these advantages? Where do we draw the line?

No it is not cheating because no one is breaking a rule of the game. It may be an advantage but it is not cheating. It would also be an advantage to be Bobby Bonds son and have Willie Mays as a god father / close family friend but that is not "cheating"

By the way, cheating and deception is inherent in the game of baseball. Stealing signs, scuffing the ball, the hidden ball trick, bean balls, pretending that you are going to catch a ball to prevent a runner from running - all that stuff is part of the game. Some of it is against the rules but if you totally eliminated it from baseball then it wouldn't be baseball anymore.

Also, I know I'll get flamed for this but using steroids was not cheating until this year either. It was not against the rules of the game. The rules / laws of society and government but not the game. Just like speeding is illegal but not banned by baseball. Also, don't foteget steroids were not illegal until 1990 or 1991.

Anyway, Clif I see what you are getting at and I think it just boils down to different eras. You had a different baseball and ballpark size years ago. Starting pitchers used to pitch 8 or 9 innning s instead of 6 or 7 now. But the beauty of the game until steroids was that the 162 game schedule was the "great equalizer" and all records pretty much normalized by the end of the season.

 

[AZZenny]

Saying Steroids were 'not illegal' is nuts - they've been against the law for a number of years. If you want to say that mlb didn't regard them as cheating because they weren't among the banned drugs, fine. Just like Amphetamines are now - no doctor's prescription means they are ILLEGAL and you can get busted - but they are not banned officially by mlb, and everyone uses them, and apparently they aren't considered cheating - by most athletes, actually - because they've been in the sport for 40-plus years at least.

I can't see how getting a necessary medical procedure to repair an otherwise career-ending injury is even in the same discussion. If you think TJ surgery is cheating, then so is repairing a torn ACL or labrum, or setting a broken bone, or rehabbing a dislocated shoulder. AHA!! it's the rehabbing - it's the working out that's cheating. Hmmm...steroid users work out...rehabbers work out...

 

[clif]

If you think TJ surgery is cheating, then so is repairing a torn ACL or labrum, or setting a broken bone, or rehabbing a dislocated shoulder. AHA!! it's the rehabbing - it's the working out that's cheating. Hmmm...steroid users work out...rehabbers work out...

that is my point who makes the distinction? Of course I dont think that necessary surgery is cheating, but who's to say that alot of those procedures are really necessary?

 

[AZZenny]

Ummm...physicians and health insurers make the distinction as to whether something is medically necessary or not. That's why the idea of a competent, ethical surgeon doing elective/pre-emptive TJ surgery on a minor child is pretty far-fetched - operative words being ethical and competent (pardon the pun).
And if the surgeon isn't competent, you aren't necessarily going to get that 2-4 mph gain. You may get nerve damage, adhesions that reduce range of motion, etc.

OK, I see your Avatar now. Sorry...

You must be registered for see images

 

[cards 24-7-365]

Saying Steroids were 'not illegal' is nuts - they've been against the law for a number of years. :

It has only been 15 years. So when Jose Canseco, et al. were using in the late '80s. Not illegal.

The Anabolic Steroids Control Act of 1990 became law on November 29, 1990, when President Bush signed the Omnibus Crime Control Bill.

 

[Homer Simpson]

It has only been 15 years. So when Jose Canseco, et al. were using in the late '80s. Not illegal.

The Anabolic Steroids Control Act of 1990 became law on November 29, 1990, when President Bush signed the Omnibus Crime Control Bill.

You also have to consider that Presidents have no effect on laws in other countries -- where a good number of these players are from. It is perfectly legal for Vinny Castilla to get steroids in his homeland, same with many other guys. Should they be allowed to take them?

Whoever said that it is not cheating because it was not against the rules of the game is absolutely right.

 

[schillingfan]

Whoever said that it is not cheating because it was not against the rules of the game is absolutely right.

So you think it's okay to violate the law to get a competitive advantage over players who are law abiding citizens.

Some ethos we are teaching people. It's okay to break the law, that isn't cheating, because the rules of the game don't explicitly say you can't do something that is illegal to gain a competitive advantage.

So let's encourage all ballplayers to be criminals and break laws, I mean it isn't cheating, so why should a ballplayer be a good citizen and follow the law when everyone else is doing it because it isn't cheating.

Yeah right.

 

[Homer Simpson]

So you think it's okay to violate the law to get a competitive advantage over players who are law abiding citizens.

Some ethos we are teaching people. It's okay to break the law, that isn't cheating, because the rules of the game don't explicitly say you can't do something that is illegal to gain a competitive advantage.

So let's encourage all ballplayers to be criminals and break laws, I mean it isn't cheating, so why should a ballplayer be a good citizen and follow the law when everyone else is doing it because it isn't cheating.

Yeah right.

So you have a problem with a pitcher who pitches inside to back a batter off the plate? After all, throwing a baseball at another human being with the intention of scaring and/or harming them is against the law.

And, I assume you do not have a problem if a guy like Sammy Sosa took steroids in the offseason while in his home country of the Dominican Republic, where they are legal, or if Barry Bonds took a cream that was not illegal at the time when he took it.

Please answer these questions:

Is it okay for a pitcher to violate the law and throw at a batter? If so, why is it okay for this law to be violated and not other laws?

Is it okay for a foreign-born player to take steroids that are legal in his country, but not legal in the United States? Especially if he makes sure he only takes them in his country, where they are not illegal?

Is it okay for a player to take a steroid that is not considered criminal to take? If Bonds' trainer gave him a cream that was -- at the time -- not against the law to take, and was not against baseball rules, what crime did he commit?

Finally, regarding the players who may have taken illegal drugs in this country, aren't we innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt? Therefore, until it can be proven that they are guilty of taking an illegal drug, they should be considered innocent. And, therefore, they have done nothing wrong.

Please answer the questions.

 

[BC867]

There is another factor to consider and that's the integrity of the game.

Baseball, which thrives on statistics more than any other sport, is a tradition. The Commissioner should be a caretaker of that tradition.

Do we really want to see 40-50 HR hitters belting 60 or 70 (with the use of steroids) to put more money into the owners' pockets? A medium power hitter like Rafael Palmiero reaching the top-10 all-time HR hitters?

I don't!

When Babe Ruth started doubling anyone else's HR numbers in the '20's, he did it with skill, not artificial stimuli. In fact, his stimuli was "booze and broads", but that's another story.

It should be up to the Commissioner to maintain the integrity of the game, but he was an owner while serving as Commissioner. What do you think his interests are?

 

[schillingfan]

Oh come on Homer, you know it's getting an unfair advantage by doing something that others cannot do and still be law abiding citizens.

Barry Bonds didn't go to Mexico to get his steroids he went around the corner to Balco and took them in the United States when they were prohibited controlled substances.

Throwing a baseball and hitting someone is not against the law. Intentionally throwing at someone's head for the purpose of hitting him could be against the law, but baseball doesn't condone that either.

 

[Southpaw]

Does everyone believe Bo?

ESPN.com news services

ONTARIO, Calif. -- A Southern California newspaper on Sunday apologized to Bo Jackson and retracted part of a story saying the former football and baseball star used steroids.

"Jackson has stated publicly he has never used steroids," the Inland Valley Daily Bulletin said on its Web site. "We retract the quote and the further statement that the speaker personally witnessed this damage to his life. We apologize to Mr. Jackson, without reservation."

In a story published March 24 under sports editor Jim Mohr's byline, dietary expert Ellen Coleman was quoted as saying she knew personally that "Bo Jackson lost his hip because of anabolic abuse."

Jackson responded last week by suing the newspaper, MediaNews Group Inc., MediaNews Group Interactive, Inc., Mohr and three other employees for unspecified general and punitive damages in Illinois.

"I've got nothing to hide," Jackson said. "If anyone wants to check into my medical past, go get blood tests, go check up on those blood tests and see if there was any anabolic steroids in it. You're more than welcome."

Jackson's defamation suit would continue, his attorney Dan Biederman said Sunday, adding that he had no comment on the newspaper's retraction.

"The statement released today is the first step towards a resolution of this matter," Jackson's attorney Dan Biederman said in a statement to ESPN. "The statement confirms what we knew all along -- Bo Jackson never used steroids. The statement does not change the fact that this reporter printed a reckless lie and must be held accountable. Professional journalistic standards demand that there be controls in place that prevent such a reckless statement to be published across this nation over the internet. Perhaps this reporter and the editors of the newspaper can explain how you un-ring a bell."

Jackson said he found the newspaper's story online. Coleman later denied making any statements about Jackson.

The newspaper, based about 30 miles east of Los Angeles in Ontario, didn't immediately respond to messages left Sunday morning.

Jackson, the only player to be named to the NFL's Pro Bowl and appear in baseball's All-Star game, injured his hip playing for the Oakland Raiders in 1991 in a playoff game. He had a hip replacement the following year.

Jackson, who retired in 1994, is now a businessman who lives in suburban Chicago. He talks to children about health and nutrition issues and has denied ever using or even seeing steroids in any form.

Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.

 

[Djaughe]

So far - I do.

The 'expert' Ellen Coleman cited in the newspaper denied ever making the bo jackson/steroid claims and produced a video tape of her seminar. With that tape the story lost its credibility.

 

[Southpaw]

So far - I do.

The 'expert' Ellen Coleman cited in the newspaper denied ever making the bo jackson/steroid claims and produced a video tape of her seminar. With that tape the story lost its credibility.

.... are you sure about the actual tape?

 

[NickelBack]

I do.

 

[PDXChris]

Bo was always a big boy, I have no reason to not believe him.