Mock Draft - 5 of 7 rounds done for the Cards

[Crazy Canuck]

Keuchly to Philly makes so much sense, but their drafting history makes you question whether they think that position is a priority in the first round. They tend to draft "impact" positions in the first round.

Got to believe that with the state of their LB corps that it would be considered "impact" this year.

 

[Duckjake]

Now you're exaggerating because you know you're wrong. The 2012 Cards don't need to be the 2011 Saints or the 2001 Rams to win 12 games if the defense can maintain their momentum.

The need to be the 2011 Bengals. Do I think that an extra wide receiver or a huge uppgrade at RT replacing Brandon Keith could prove the Cards' offense from 24th in the league in scoring to 14th? Yes. Yes, I do.

No, I was exaggerating because you were. Your statement about me thinking Paris Lenon and Stewart Bradley being the only thing holding the Cards back from being the '85 Bears or 2000 Ravens was the epitome of hyperbole. You are wrong and you keep changing the debate because you keep losing. Which is what you always do.

First you claim that Paris Lenon is fine at LB and that a first round SILB would only be about a 20% upgrade after having called him horrible and nothing but some other teams' Ron McKinnon. Then you claim it is dumb to draft an ILB in the first round and when I point out all the first round successes plus the other high second round successes you waffle and claim you were only saying what the Cards would do.



I'll ask again where are all these dime a dozen ILBs you talk about if we're having to start a 34 year old Paris Lenon?

 

[kerouac9]

No, I was exaggerating because you were. Your statement about me thinking Paris Lenon and Stewart Bradley being the only thing holding the Cards back from being the '85 Bears or 2000 Ravens was the epitome of hyperbole. You are wrong and you keep changing the debate because you keep losing. Which is what you always do.

First you claim that Paris Lenon is fine at LB and that a first round SILB would only be about a 20% upgrade after having called him horrible and nothing but some other teams' Ron McKinnon. Then you claim it is dumb to draft an ILB in the first round and when I point out all the first round successes plus the other high second round successes you waffle and claim you were only saying what the Cards would do.

The Cards were an very good defense with Paris Lenon and Stewart Bradley at the end of the season. If you add to that, there's nowhere to go but elite. I don't keep changing the debate--we're debating the same thing: Does a marginal improvement at SILB mean that the Cards end up better than a major improvement at RT or #2 WR?

Is the problem with the Arizona Cardinals winning games the defense or the offense?

You can ignore the mediocrities taken in the first round at the ILB position, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

 

[Duckjake]

Yes, SILB is a need, but so many greater needs that should be filled in the first round over it.

Not greater needs. Impact players maybe. But the Cards don't have a greater need at Guard or Wide Receiver than they do at SILB.

 

[kerouac9]

Not greater needs. Impact players maybe. But the Cards don't have a greater need at Guard or Wide Receiver than they do at SILB.

If Early Doucet leaves in free agency? What about if Richard Marshall leaves? Is cornerback a bigger need? What about BOTH offensive tackle positions if Levi leaves but we convince Brandon Keith to stay?

I agree with you at offensive guard--I think that's a luxury pick, as well, but I think that DeCastro has much bigger upside than Keuchly to be an impact player.

What about rush linebacker? Acho's been great, but are you convinced enough by O'Brien Schofield's 4.5 sacks in 16 games last year that he's a starter on this defense? I'm not. Schofield had sacks in 2 of the Cards last 9 games last year.

 

[MadCardDisease]

The Cards were an very good defense with Paris Lenon and Stewart Bradley at the end of the season. If you add to that, there's nowhere to go but elite. I don't keep changing the debate--we're debating the same thing: Does a marginal improvement at SILB mean that the Cards end up better than a major improvement at RT or #2 WR?

Is the problem with the Arizona Cardinals winning games the defense or the offense?

You can ignore the mediocrities taken in the first round at the ILB position, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

I've never been a fan of taking a SILB early in the 1st round. It would take a Very Very Very special talent for me to want one that early. In this years draft there isn't a SILB worthy of an early pick so count me in your boat.

 

[Chopper0080]

Not greater needs. Impact players maybe. But the Cards don't have a greater need at Guard or Wide Receiver than they do at SILB.

Rex Hadnot is not a very good OG, and neither is his FA backup Duece Lutui. If anything he is a avg piece on a below avg unit. OGs play every offensive snap while SILB's generally don't, and don't bring up Willis or Bowman because Keuchly isn't in the same class as Willis and will not be taken in the 2nd/3rd round like Bowman. OG, RT, LT, WR, OLB, CB, and S are all positions of greater need than ILB right now.

After FA pans out, maybe this changes, but right now, taking a SILB in the first round just isn't a viable option with the players that should be available with the #13 pick.

Sidenote, I would take Hightower above Keuchly with the scheme we run.

 

[Duckjake]

Rex Hadnot is not a very good OG, and neither is his FA backup Duece Lutui. If anything he is a avg piece on a below avg unit. OGs play every offensive snap while SILB's generally don't, and don't bring up Willis or Bowman because Keuchly isn't in the same class as Willis and will not be taken in the 2nd/3rd round like Bowman. OG, RT, LT, WR, OLB, CB, and S are all positions of greater need than ILB right now.

After FA pans out, maybe this changes, but right now, taking a SILB in the first round just isn't a viable option with the players that should be available with the #13 pick.

Sidenote, I would take Hightower above Keuchly with the scheme we run.

Why do people keep bringing up WILBs like Willis? I get what you are saying but Paris Lenon at 35 is going to be worse at his position than Rex Hadnot is at his. As long as Grimm is offensive line coach I'll be against using high draft picks on offensive linemen. Give a guy, Horton who knows how to shoot the weapons not Grimm.

The Cards could start the season with the exact same guys at all the positions you mentioned, upgrade to a first round SILB and be better than they were last season.

 

[bg7brd]

Rex Hadnot is not a very good OG, and neither is his FA backup Duece Lutui. If anything he is a avg piece on a below avg unit. OGs play every offensive snap while SILB's generally don't, and don't bring up Willis or Bowman because Keuchly isn't in the same class as Willis and will not be taken in the 2nd/3rd round like Bowman. OG, RT, LT, WR, OLB, CB, and S are all positions of greater need than ILB right now.

After FA pans out, maybe this changes, but right now, taking a SILB in the first round just isn't a viable option with the players that should be available with the #13 pick.

Sidenote, I would take Hightower above Keuchly with the scheme we run.

Me too

 

[Stout]

He would be a luxury pick there for us, though, so I like him as trade bait.

See...

Yes, SILB is a need, but so many greater needs that should be filled in the first round over it.

...I THOUGHT I had already said that

 

[52brandon]

Rex Hadnot is not a very good OG, and neither is his FA backup Duece Lutui. If anything he is a avg piece on a below avg unit. OGs play every offensive snap while SILB's generally don't, and don't bring up Willis or Bowman because Keuchly isn't in the same class as Willis and will not be taken in the 2nd/3rd round like Bowman. OG, RT, LT, WR, OLB, CB, and S are all positions of greater need than ILB right now.

After FA pans out, maybe this changes, but right now, taking a SILB in the first round just isn't a viable option with the players that should be available with the #13 pick.

Sidenote, I would take Hightower above Keuchly with the scheme we run.

ironically, I think Rex was our most efficient lineman last season. According to statistics at least. I think the line will be fine with the same mid-3, but both Ts need replacing

 

[Chopper0080]

Why do people keep bringing up WILBs like Willis? I get what you are saying but Paris Lenon at 35 is going to be worse at his position than Rex Hadnot is at his. As long as Grimm is offensive line coach I'll be against using high draft picks on offensive linemen. Give a guy, Horton who knows how to shoot the weapons not Grimm.

The Cards could start the season with the exact same guys at all the positions you mentioned, upgrade to a first round SILB and be better than they were last season.

If you think Grimm is such a terrible coach wouldn't it be better to draft polished players like DeCastro that don't need to be coached up as much rather than projects that Grimm will fail to develop?

As far as Paris Lenon and Rex Hadnot, I disagree. I think that DeCastro would be a much larger upgrade over Hadnot, than Keuchly over Lenon for two reasons. First, DeCastro is a perfect fit to our blocking scheme which requires OGs to pull and lead the play while Keuchly is a questionable fit for a 3-4 defense that he has never played in. Second, the Cardinals have a history of throwing offensive linemen to the fire while holding defensive players back as they learn the system. Like it or not, this means DeCastro would have a more immediate impact.

 

[Chopper0080]

ironically, I think Rex was our most efficient lineman last season. According to statistics at least. I think the line will be fine with the same mid-3, but both Ts need replacing

I think Hadnot is an average player on a terrible offensive line. He is much more valuable as a swing OG/C than a starting OG, and does not possess the polished movement skills that our blocking scheme requires from it's OGs.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

They are starting a new mock draft on CBS Sports. If any one would like to represent the Cardinals or any other team, you may sign up now: http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/messages/chrono/35104579

 

[NJCardFan]

We might not NEED an OG but DeCastro could very well be the BPA.

True that.

 

[Duckjake]

I think Hadnot is an average player on a terrible offensive line. He is much more valuable as a swing OG/C than a starting OG, and does not possess the polished movement skills that our blocking scheme requires from it's OGs.

This is what I don't understand. LBrown,Colledge,Sendlein,Hadnot,Bridges,Lutui are all established veteran offensive linemen who have started 100s of games combined. And not just for Arizona. Why are they so terrible?

 

[Chopper0080]

This is what I don't understand. LBrown,Colledge,Sendlein,Hadnot,Bridges,Lutui are all established veteran offensive linemen who have started 100s of games combined. And not just for Arizona. Why are they so terrible?

Established veterans just means they have been in the league for awhile, not that they are good. Look, all of these guys are good enough to stick in a quality offensive line and not destroy it. Where our line fails is that there is not quality players around them so they can be successfull. Bushrod for the Saints is average, but playing on a line with two Pro Bowl OGs hides his limitations.

Hadnot was a swing OG/C castoff from Cleveland. Colledge couldn't cut it as an OT w/ Green Bay. Lutui is fat, and couldn't pass a physical w/ Cincy. Bridges is a career backup who can fill in in spots. Sendlein is decent, but physically limited. Levi Brown lacks athleticism. Our offensive line is the island of misfit toys without Rudolf to take them to good homes.

 

[Cardiac]

Established veterans just means they have been in the league for awhile, not that they are good. Look, all of these guys are good enough to stick in a quality offensive line and not destroy it. Where our line fails is that there is not quality players around them so they can be successfull. Bushrod for the Saints is average, but playing on a line with two Pro Bowl OGs hides his limitations.

Hadnot was a swing OG/C castoff from Cleveland. Colledge couldn't cut it as an OT w/ Green Bay. Lutui is fat, and couldn't pass a physical w/ Cincy. Bridges is a career backup who can fill in in spots. Sendlein is decent, but physically limited. Levi Brown lacks athleticism. Our offensive line is the island of misfit toys without Rudolf to take them to good homes.

While I don't think our O-line is horrible I do agree that adding a DeCastro would make a world of difference.

The FO plan for the O-line is to keep it affordable while hoping to get solid play from the unit. It's not a bad plan when you have Fitz, Boldin and Breaston with Warner throwing to them.

The plan does fall apart when the QB stituation goes from excellent to very very sucky.

Grimm was given one bite at the apple in selecting Levi but after that it was fend for yourself big guy. We are paying Grimm a ton of money to get average to below average talent to become a solid unit. Very few draft picks invested in this unit and only one before round 5 since Grimm arrived.

While I don't think Grimm has lived up to his reputation or earned his 1.5 mil salary I also don't think he is as bad as most fans believe.

 

[Duckjake]

Established veterans just means they have been in the league for awhile, not that they are good. Look, all of these guys are good enough to stick in a quality offensive line and not destroy it. Where our line fails is that there is not quality players around them so they can be successfull. Bushrod for the Saints is average, but playing on a line with two Pro Bowl OGs hides his limitations.

Hadnot was a swing OG/C castoff from Cleveland. Colledge couldn't cut it as an OT w/ Green Bay. Lutui is fat, and couldn't pass a physical w/ Cincy. Bridges is a career backup who can fill in in spots. Sendlein is decent, but physically limited. Levi Brown lacks athleticism. Our offensive line is the island of misfit toys without Rudolf to take them to good homes.

But guys who are not good don't stay in the league as long as these guys have much less start as many games as they have.

However, I do get what you are writing about quality players making the entire line better. In looking at other teams olines I see them populated by the same free agents and later round draft picks with one exception. The best offensive lines have a superstar anchor, a Jeff Saturday at Center or a Steve Hutchinson at Guard or Willie Roaf at Left Tackle.