Momah to Start?

[RINGLESS]

I wonder if Troy out, and Gresham only just now practicing per Darren.

If Momah starts what do you see his stats being? He could have some chances to make an impact week 1 against a hampered NO Defense.

 

[thephoenixson28]

Fells I think is starting

 

[kerouac9]

People expecting any meaningful/fantasy production from tight ends in this offense are fooling themselves. Take a look at Arians' past stops, and let me know the productive tight ends he's used.

Or, to think of it another way, whom would you rather have on the field in a passing situation, Ifeni Momah, or John Brown/J.J. Nelson/Michael Floyd?

I know whom I'd pick.

 

[Matt L]

People expecting any meaningful/fantasy production from tight ends in this offense are fooling themselves. Take a look at Arians' past stops, and let me know the productive tight ends he's used.

Or, to think of it another way, whom would you rather have on the field in a passing situation, Ifeni Momah, or John Brown/J.J. Nelson/Michael Floyd?

I know whom I'd pick.

I am not sure I want JJ Nelson on the field if he doesn't know which route to run.

 

[82CardsGrad]

People expecting any meaningful/fantasy production from tight ends in this offense are fooling themselves. Take a look at Arians' past stops, and let me know the productive tight ends he's used.

Or, to think of it another way, whom would you rather have on the field in a passing situation, Ifeni Momah, or John Brown/J.J. Nelson/Michael Floyd?

I know whom I'd pick.

Not to mention the receiving options coming out of the backfield...

We just need a TE to BLOCK!

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I am not sure I want JJ Nelson on the field if he doesn't know which route to run.

He only has to run 2 at the moment. Go and stop routes AFAIC

 

[Dude]

People expecting any meaningful/fantasy production from tight ends in this offense are fooling themselves. Take a look at Arians' past stops, and let me know the productive tight ends he's used.

Or, to think of it another way, whom would you rather have on the field in a passing situation, Ifeni Momah, or John Brown/J.J. Nelson/Michael Floyd?

I know whom I'd pick.

The way our O line played in the preseason CP will need more than a few short passes to someone. I think he will have a good game.

 

[RINGLESS]

I understand that Arians offense typically doesn't rely on TE's however I think it is obvious there are changes being made to create more space. If our OL can product there is no reason why we can't have a receiving TE.

When we play Seattle a TE like that can have a lot of value. Looks at the way Phillip Rivers overcomes the Seattle Defense. Quick passes, short passes, screens. I think we might see a slightly different O this year. Still of course a big play offense, but I still expect some changes when Iupati and Massie come back.

 

[kerouac9]

The way our O line played in the preseason CP will need more than a few short passes to someone. I think he will have a good game.

And I'm guessing that "someone" will be one of the running backs and Larry Fitzgerald. The last two years, the TE has been a position "schemed" open by not targeting it at all until the player is needed for an intermediate gain.

I understand that Arians offense typically doesn't rely on TE's however I think it is obvious there are changes being made to create more space. If our OL can product there is no reason why we can't have a receiving TE.

When we play Seattle a TE like that can have a lot of value. Looks at the way Phillip Rivers overcomes the Seattle Defense. Quick passes, short passes, screens. I think we might see a slightly different O this year. Still of course a big play offense, but I still expect some changes when Iupati and Massie come back.

Momah can reach his full potential and still only be the 4th receiving option in the base (2WR/2TE/1RB) offense.

 

[NMCard]

For not being an important position in the overall scheme the cards have sure put a good deal of focus on trying to find players who can play the TE position.

 

[Buckybird]

People expecting any meaningful/fantasy production from tight ends in this offense are fooling themselves. Take a look at Arians' past stops, and let me know the productive tight ends he's used.

Or, to think of it another way, whom would you rather have on the field in a passing situation, Ifeni Momah, or John Brown/J.J. Nelson/Michael Floyd?

I know whom I'd pick.

Absolutely K9. I've been saying for the BA/Wiz years that having a very good or highly drafted TE is fools gold & a total waste for this team.

 

[kerouac9]

For not being an important position in the overall scheme the cards have sure put a good deal of focus on trying to find players who can play the TE position.

Have they? One second round pick in the Keim/Arians era, and a compensatory 7th rounder.

 

[Buckybird]

For not being an important position in the overall scheme the cards have sure put a good deal of focus on trying to find players who can play the TE position.

And adding total burners on top of those other WRs we have. Believe what you want to believe but no TE will likely have over 500 yds (or close) because BA wants chunk plays!!!

 

[Iceman]

I bet Gresham, Fells and Mumah all play Sunday. Gresham and Nicklas will be able to go full speed on Saturday and I bet they put Nicklas as inactive, but have Gresham ok to play

 

[NMCard]

I hope whoever it is can block well enough and catch a pass when needed to help keep the starting QB upright.

 

[kerouac9]

And adding total burners on top of those other WRs we have. Believe what you want to believe but no TE will likely have over 500 yds (or close) because BA wants chunk plays!!!

The right TE can deliver chunk plays — no one knows that better than Cardinals fans. That said, Heath Miller averaged just over 600 yards receiving and 5 TDs per season when Arians was his OC. I imagine that 600 yards is a pretty solid over/under for a TE in this offense. Even The Dude had like 460 yards two years ago.

 

[Mitch]

Have they? One second round pick in the Keim/Arians era, and a compensatory 7th rounder.

Not that I disagree with you, your point is well taken, but they did spend another 7th rounder on D.C. Jefferson---and last year they signed John Carlson, which at the time looked like a good signing. And this year they signed Jermain Gresham---so BA&SK have been making the effort.

Their first year of BA&SK they were hoping the could turn around 3rd round pick in 2011 Rob Housler, but we all know how that one turned out.

Interesting that this year they are getting the most production from converted basketball player Darren Fells and a converted WR to TE Ifeanyi Momah, whom they signed from the new veteran's combine, of all places---two very improbable long shots indeed!

 

[kerouac9]

Not that I disagree with you, your point is well taken, but they did spend another 7th rounder on D.C. Jefferson---and last year they signed John Carlson, which at the time looked like a good signing. And this year they signed Jermain Gresham---so BA&SK have been making the effort.

Their first year of BA&SK they were hoping the could turn around 3rd round pick in 2011 Rob Housler, but we all know how that one turned out.

Interesting that this year they are getting the most production from converted basketball player Darren Fells and a converted WR to TE Ifeanyi Momah, whom they signed from the new veteran's combine, of all places---two very improbable long shots indeed!

Yeah, maybe. I don't think that either Jefferson nor Carlson were huge investments, though. Carlson in particular was cut by the Vikings and had almost 1/3 of his earnings in game-day roster bonuses. Gresham was signed in August.

I think that Keim had a lot of love for Housler, but it was pretty clear pretty quickly that Arians had no use for him. In an early presser, Arians said that in Pittsburgh they scouted him as a wideout.

 

[Mitch]

The reality is for all BA's hoopla over his 2 TE sets---he hasn't been able to run the ball in those sets (which is the main point, isn't it?), OR pass protect---as his TEs have been getting spun backward and around and blown away repeatedly by edge pass rushers. Honestly, they don't look like they've been coached properly.

 

[kerouac9]

The reality is for all BA's hoopla over his 2 TE sets---he hasn't been able to run the ball in those sets (which is the main point, isn't it?), OR pass protect---as his TEs have been getting spun backward and around and blown away repeatedly by edge pass rushers. Honestly, they don't look like they've been coached properly.

It's not really the main point; it's to maintain scheme versatility and not declare your intentions to the defense based on personnel. Take it for what it's worth, but the Cards in 2014 used the 1RB/2TE formation 23% of the time, ran out of that formation 48% of the time, and it was the only formation to have above-average production.

 

[Buckybird]

The right TE can deliver chunk plays — no one knows that better than Cardinals fans. That said, Heath Miller averaged just over 600 yards receiving and 5 TDs per season when Arians was his OC. I imagine that 600 yards is a pretty solid over/under for a TE in this offense. Even The Dude had like 460 yards two years ago.

Like I said 500-600 receiving yards isn't anything special from a TE, most of the TEs in today's game are around that number, outside of the few great ones. The passing game revolves around the WRs.

Btw how many great TEs who light it up year in & year out even make a Super Bowl? That was my main point, saying a great TE or above average one is needed to have a successful passing game. How many SBs outside of Gronk has Witten, Gates, Gonzalez, Graham, etc been too?

I still say the passing game flys or dies with your WRs & of course the QB

 

[82CardsGrad]

It's not really the main point; it's to maintain scheme versatility and not declare your intentions to the defense based on personnel. Take it for what it's worth, but the Cards in 2014 used the 1RB/2TE formation 23% of the time, ran out of that formation 48% of the time, and it was the only formation to have above-average production.

Not sure if you have this K9, but it would be interesting to see those stats when Palmer was the QB, as I would imagine that with Stanton and Lindley/Thomas, the play-calling and set formation took on a vastly different flavor...

 

[Mitch]

It's not really the main point; it's to maintain scheme versatility and not declare your intentions to the defense based on personnel. Take it for what it's worth, but the Cards in 2014 used the 1RB/2TE formation 23% of the time, ran out of that formation 48% of the time, and it was the only formation to have above-average production.

I get what you are saying. Sure, there is a play action component and scheme deception---but that is only going to be effective if the running component is. There was nothing above average about the Cardinals' running game in 2014. 31st in the NFL, worst yard per carry at 3.3 in the NFL.

 

[kerouac9]

Not sure if you have this K9, but it would be interesting to see those stats when Palmer was the QB, as I would imagine that with Stanton and Lindley/Thomas, the play-calling and set formation took on a vastly different flavor...

I don't, but IIRC, Palmer was much more likely to dump the ball off last year than he had in his career. It's just that those dump-off targets were not good:

Palmer’s base stats last year were nice enough: he completed 62.9 percent of 224 passes for 7.3 yards per pass, with 11 touchdowns and just three interceptions. Those are decent numbers, especially considering Arizona’s lack of targets at running back or tight end. (Among quarterbacks with at least 200 dropbacks, only Tony Romo and Aaron Rodgers had better DVOA ratings when throwing to wide receivers than Palmer; on throws to other positions, only Josh McCown was worse.)

...

What might be a factor is Palmer’s sudden aversion to throwing midrange passes. The average quarterback throws about one-third of his passes to targets 6 to 15 yards past the line of scrimmage, and Palmer has been at or above that level every year of his career. At least, he had been, until last season, when he threw midrange passes 10 percent less frequently than he had in 2013, and six percent less frequently than he ever had before. Drew Stanton and Ryan Lindley were close to average in this metric, so this had nothing to do with Arizona’s general play-calling philosophy. Palmer also threw more short passes than he ever had before. His most frequent target on those short throws, not surprisingly, was Andre Ellington, who averaged 6.3 targets per game when Palmer started, but only 4.3 when Drew Stanton or Ryan Lindley did. A healthy Palmer might make Ellington (or another running back who takes his job) worth watching in PPR leagues.

 

[Catfish]

I am thinking that Momah might be used in our red zone offense. Having a big tall fast target with good hands like him inside the 20 could be ideal.