Monday's Ten Thoughts Game 3

[Buckybird]

Moch was put on the active roster today.

He's got some skills, now lets hope the jinx of the Redbird OLBs get him

 

[Seandonic]

The whole Joe Thomas thing is a waste of time. If the Cards traded for him he would suffer a career ending injury a game or two into his first season and everyone here knows that.

 

[Buckybird]

absolutely no. We are going to have a top 5-top 10 pick most likely this year and there are 3 very good LT prospects and at least 3 top notch QB prospects that are going to be available. This team isn't CLOSE to being a contender and Joe Thomas won't make them one. And in doing the above trade, you're basically hitching your wagon to a Carson Palmer lead team for the next 5 years and dismissing the chance to draft a blue chip pass rusher for the next two seasons. That is a recipe for disaster IMO.

no. a thousand times no is how I answer this question.

I agree

The million $$$ question is whether Arians is willing to draft a young potential stud QB early in the next 2 drafts? I would really like to know.

The 3 biggest keys to consistently winning in the NFL is having a very good QB, LT & an edge rusher...strike 3 for us!

 

[gmabel830]

Has Dansby ever played OLB on a regular basis in college or the NFL?

 

[Buckybird]

Has Dansby ever played OLB on a regular basis in college or the NFL?

Yes when he was drafted by the Cards. He played 4-3 OLB until they went to the 3-4 in 2007. 17 sacks in 3 years

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Arians compulsion for the big pass play might have doomed our offense this game. Our first drive was filled with runs and short to intermediate routes. Next drives we got away from the run and started going deep on first down. Not to mention our strange liking for 3rd down plays to Te's and RB instead of fitz and other WR's.

Yeah, the solution for this is a really tough one. In one sense, you feel like we have to take a lot of shots, because it's hard to envison sustained drives with our OL. That being said, it's nearly impossible taking shots down the field when Palmer is constantly under duress.

Combine that with a weak running game, an erratic QB and careless mistakes and it's not surprising we were a mess on Sunday.

That first drive was really exciting though!

 

[Totally_Red]

Nice analysis as usual Mitch!

I agree that with the size of the Saints receivers playing Antoine Cason more would have made a lot of sense.

And where the heck is Kerry Taylor. Seemed like Brown got more snaps Sunday and to me Taylor has been the more impressive of the two. Brown hung Carson out to dry on one of his routes.

Wouldn't trade two #1's for Joe Thomas, but I'd trade one #1. That probably wouldn't get it done, so the next best option is drafting one next May.

TB is a must-win game, but the protection has to improve and the offense has to be more productive.

 

[BigRedRage]

9. Patrick Peterson---not into punt returns for the second straight year. He's fair catch happy and far more tentative than he was as a rookie. I really have to question too how badly he wants to play of offense. He's functioning in the role---but do you get the sense that he really doesn't want the role? He says he does---but what would it say about him if he says otherwise?

However, his role on offense might be in some way helping him on defense as he is playing smoothly and well within himself and the rule in coverage. In other words, he not over-playing as he sometimes has been prone to do.

Saw Mic'd up footage of pp21 asking coach to put him in on a drive, he wants it.

 

[Garthshort]

Mitch, again, thanks. Three things:
1. I know it's small consolation, but I hope that Dan Williams' father was at the St. Louis game to see his son score his first and probably the only one in his entitire carreer, no matter how long he plays.
2. CC played next to DW on the DL, as did DD. People are affected differently by tradegy. POSSIBLY, Dan's tradegy contributed to both of the DT'd performances.
3. JMO, but I think PP LOVES being used on offense. It makes him stand out. But it might also affect his play on defense and special teams.

And I never thought we would beat NO, as I took them in a Survivor league, but targeted Tampa Bay as the game that will make or break our season.

P.S. Forget Joe Thomas, the Browns will never trade him. Just won't. But since you asked, I'd give up two number one's for him

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

absolutely no. We are going to have a top 5-top 10 pick most likely this year and there are 3 very good LT prospects and at least 3 top notch QB prospects that are going to be available. This team isn't CLOSE to being a contender and Joe Thomas won't make them one. And in doing the above trade, you're basically hitching your wagon to a Carson Palmer lead team for the next 5 years and dismissing the chance to draft a blue chip pass rusher for the next two seasons. That is a recipe for disaster IMO.

no. a thousand times no is how I answer this question.

Yep

Fully agree.

What they said.

Keep our #1's and draft Cyrus Kouandjio next year then we won't have worry about LT for about a decade.

 

[BigRedRage]

absolutely no. We are going to have a top 5-top 10 pick most likely this year and there are 3 very good LT prospects and at least 3 top notch QB prospects that are going to be available. This team isn't CLOSE to being a contender and Joe Thomas won't make them one. And in doing the above trade, you're basically hitching your wagon to a Carson Palmer lead team for the next 5 years and dismissing the chance to draft a blue chip pass rusher for the next two seasons. That is a recipe for disaster IMO.

no. a thousand times no is how I answer this question.

EDIT: didnt realize he asked about TWO first rounders. Two is too many.

Wouldnt drafting the top LT in the draft still be hitching the wagon to palmer? Same with drafting the blue chip pass rusher?

IMO we need to draft tackle and pass rusher and leave QB alone for at least another year. I would LOVE to have a blue chip QB behind Palmer but I think we have far more pressing needs otherwise palmer and the rookie will both end up injured anyway. Getting a top notch LT, having cooper back, sendlien, an RG and winston/brown at RT would satisfy our OL needs for the most part and improve every facet of our team.

 

[Cheesebeef]

EDIT: didnt realize he asked about TWO first rounders. Two is too many.

Wouldnt drafting the top LT in the draft still be hitching the wagon to palmer? Same with drafting the blue chip pass rusher?

IMO we need to draft tackle and pass rusher and leave QB alone for at least another year. I would LOVE to have a blue chip QB behind Palmer but I think we have far more pressing needs otherwise palmer and the rookie will both end up injured anyway. Getting a top notch LT, having cooper back, sendlien, an RG and winston/brown at RT would satisfy our OL needs for the most part and improve every facet of our team.

my problem with the above and taking a LT over a QB if we have a high pick is that by addressing the O-Line, we probably improve ourselves enough to get to 8-8 or 9-7 the next year...but that's the ceiling for any team led by Carson Palmer IMO. So, we draft a LT...the line improves, the defense is still pretty mediocre (at best) and the offense goes from bad-mediocre to mediocre to sometimes very good...all that does is put us in purgatory...with a limited upside QB, who's already in his mid-30's. That's short-term minimal gain IMO, versus continued long term pain.

Bottom line for me...any franchise that doesn't have a franchise QB most pressing need is a franchise QB first and foremost. The Packers O-line has been terrible for years, the Steelers O-line has been terrible for years, the Saints O-line has been up and down, the Colts O-line has been terrible for Luck, but a great QB can overcome those.

 

[BigRedRage]

my problem with the above and taking a LT over a QB if we have a high pick is that by addressing the O-Line, we probably improve ourselves enough to get to 8-8 or 9-7 the next year...but that's the ceiling for any team led by Carson Palmer IMO. So, we draft a LT...the line improves, the defense is still pretty mediocre (at best) and the offense goes from bad-mediocre to mediocre to sometimes very good...all that does is put us in purgatory...with a limited upside QB, who's already in his mid-30's. That's short-term minimal gain IMO, versus continued long term pain.

Bottom line for me...any franchise that doesn't have a franchise QB most pressing need is a franchise QB first and foremost. The Packers O-line has been terrible for years, the Steelers O-line has been terrible for years, the Saints O-line has been up and down, the Colts O-line has been terrible for Luck, but a great QB can overcome those.

I see your point but I think the OL and LT are the most important positions on the field. QB matters a ton but with LEvi back there, the QB will always be skiddish about being hit IMO. Same reason why we have went through so many QBs since warner left, its because Levi has been LT and the QBs are constantly worried about their blind side.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I see your point but I think the OL and LT are the most important positions on the field. QB matters a ton but with LEvi back there, the QB will always be skiddish about being hit IMO. Same reason why we have went through so many QBs since warner left, its because Levi has been LT and the QBs are constantly worried about their blind side.

oh, don't get me wrong. I wouldn't keep Levi there next season if we drafted a QB with our first pick. I'd have to go LT in the 2nd or 3rd...or see what we could do in FA. It's what bothered the CRAP out of me the last three years in FA. There were actually decent LTs available via either trade or in actual FA and we didn't move on any of them. I just fear that improving the line does enough to get us to 8-8 and put us out of reach of getting that top blue chip franchise QB that we've basically never had.

 

[BigRedRage]

oh, don't get me wrong. I wouldn't keep Levi there next season if we drafted a QB with our first pick. I'd have to go LT in the 2nd or 3rd...or see what we could do in FA. It's what bothered the CRAP out of me the last three years in FA. There were actually decent LTs available via either trade or in actual FA and we didn't move on any of them. I just fear that improving the line does enough to get us to 8-8 and put us out of reach of getting that top blue chip franchise QB that we've basically never had.

stop refreshing waiting to flame me

I will say, a blue chip QB with arians and moore teaching him would do wonders for our future.

 

[Cheesebeef]

stop refreshing waiting to flame me

I will say, a blue chip QB with arians and moore teaching him would do wonders for our future.

lol.

 

[Shane]

I see your point but I think the OL and LT are the most important positions on the field. QB matters a ton but with LEvi back there, the QB will always be skiddish about being hit IMO. Same reason why we have went through so many QBs since warner left, its because Levi has been LT and the QBs are constantly worried about their blind side.

A great QB is all that matters. You see what Warner did with Levi back there the whole time.

Great QB trumps all.

 

[Shane]

stop refreshing waiting to flame me

 

[BigRedRage]

A great QB is all that matters. You see what Warner did with Levi back there the whole time.

Great QB trumps all.

Levi was RT back then. One of the big reasons our QBs have been so bad since is LEvi is now LT and they are flailing for their lives.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Levi was RT back then. One of the big reasons our QBs have been so bad since is LEvi is now LT and they are flailing for their lives.

I don't know about that. Levi doesn't help, but our QBs have been bad regardless.

 

[john h]

1. First and foremost, what horrible news it was to hear of Dan Williams' father's passing. The context of it makes it even more devastating for him and the entire Cardinal family---en route to watch his son play in the Superdome. As of yesterday Williams' mother was still hospitalized in Mississippi. It is so dreadfully sad---don't know about you but the news dampened my excitement to watch the game, so I can just imagine how it affected the players and coaches. My Irish instincts tell me that the players and coaches deserve a mulligan on this one. Playing with heavy hearts is tough---in a place that is hard enough to play in as it is. But, the FOX crew was right when they said that BA was about as good a coach to have in Williams' and the team's corner. It will be handled with TLC and with class.

2. House of Horrors indeed. Bad enough to see Lorenzo Alexander and Sam Acho go down to season-ending injuries, but to hear that the bloody tip of Rashad Johnson's middle finger was still in his glove when it was taken off is gruesome, to say the least. Alexander's leadership will be missed---and Acho was having his best game of the season (great sack), so it hurts to lose these players---meanwhile Johnson seems snakebitten this year, in a year where it is his turn to emerge as one of the leaders of the defense.

3. Matchups---that's what this game comes down to these days. The Saints were drooling over the mismatches they felt they had in coverage that they basically abandoned their running game for the first three and a half quarters. Just a week after thinking that Todd Bowles had started to settle down the coverage with the right matchups and schemes---Bowles' decision making in this game was egregious. There's really no other way to put it. The FOX crew harped ad nauseum on that throughout the broadcast and rightfully so.

First of all---you cannot consider Jimmy Graham a TE, because he is not a TE. He is a taller, faster and stronger version of Larry Fitzgerald. Look at the TD in the 2nd quarter---he was lined up wide left. To think that Yeremiah Bell on an island wide with Graham was even an option is beyond comprehension. Even if you have to call timeout (first half anyway) to make a switch, you cannot allow the Saints that easy a mismatch. To Bell's credit he was stride for stride with Graham but at 5'11" whose kidding whom? Bell can cover a 6'7" WR? Honey Badger? As they say on ESPN: "C'mon MAN!"

The obvious matchup here is Patrick Peterson---I mean he covers Fitz every day in practice and he just came off a game where he covered one of the elite big receivers in the NFL in Calvin Johnson. Peterson would have been ready to take this challenge.

What I want to know too is---where's Antoine Cason? One would assume they signed him to cover taller WRs---he would have been the guy to cover Marquis Colston---then you have Badger on Lance Moore (as Bowles did) and Arenas to cover Sproles.

What I also want to know is---after a very active and productive performance the week before, where was Tony Jefferson? Why was Arenas playing safety? Although he did make a nice pass breakup on the goalline versus the skinny post.

Weird...just plain weird.

4. As for Badger---did you see how he mirrored Moore in coverage? Absolute textbook, with perfect feet, perfect cushion in space, all the while with his eyes on Brees and the football. Badger's first interception was a thing of beauty. Quite frankly---he might be the most savvy baller on the team. he is stunningly good. He mis-timed his break on the PI call to Moore, but that was due to a super quick reaction to the football.

5. More defensive weirdness---the Curious Case of Calais Campbell---was that a ghost playing in his spot? How many times did he disappear on plays? So badly that twice in the 4th quarter, once on a key third down and another on Brees' easy scramble up the middle, Campbell, for some inexplicable reason vacated the middle and left a two lane highway for Brees to pass and run through. I don;t think I have ever seen a vacated middle of a line like that (twice no less) in all my years of football.

It begs the question as to whether Campbell now after three invisible games is yet another in the long line of Cardinal fat-cats who played big to get the big contract and then played no-show on Sundays.

In the NFL you HAVE to get premier performances on a weekly basis from the the big contract players. Darnell Dockett has shown up the past two weeks---while Campbell has not even made even a slight impact. He should be to the Cardinals what J.J. Watt is to the Texans. Yet, nada thus far in 2013. Nada thing.

6. Now that things are heating up---let's go right to the issue of BA's offense with Carson Palmer at QB and Levi Brown at LT. It's like a peanut butter, artichoke and horseradish sandwich. It ain't going to work---not as it is designed and not with those two players.

I've been trying to point this out for three weeks---but Carson Palmer is an offensive tackle's worst nightmare. First of all, he's stationary...secondly, he sets the back edge of the pocket deep and even worse he steps backward not forward. if you are an OT---you are screwed. If you get steering leverage you still are going to funnel your man into the QB.

Palmer had occasions where he could have stepped up to buy time and he didn't...the one time he scrambled he had plenty of space to step into.

With Brown at LT---the better QB is Drew Stanton, because he mobile and can escape under pressure. Problem is---no one knows whether Stanton is a gamer yet because he hasn't played much at all in his 6 years.

Palmer looks too afraid to step up---so something has to give.

When I watched Andrew Luck play inside the pocket yesterday it was textbook versus the 49ers. When Aldon Smith over-committed wide, Luck bought time inside the pocket and then ran with it for good yards when he needed to.

The Cardinals need Palmer to step forward---but he looks like he's incorrigible---he just won't do it.

Where Palmer sets the pocket---you have to chip both edges.

Makes one wonder whether there is serious interest on BASK's part in Clemson QB Taj Boyd, whom SK went to scout this past week.

Stationary QBs are going out of style----and we are seeing the reason why.

7. BA badly out-coached by Rob Ryan. Sad to say---and until what we saw yesterday I wouldn't have guessed it but---it was clear that Ryan and HC/OC Sean Payton had spent a great deal of time poring over the Rams' tape, because their game plan was a carbon copy---so much so that they had previously unheralded RDE Junior Galette mimic Robert Quinn's shake and bake pass rush moves---which once again froze the chunky, slow-footed Levi Brown right in his tracks.

What's so bad about Brown is the incredibly easy way he gets beat....and how non-plussed he is afterward---it's as if he doesn't even care. Both he and Carson Palmer have to be two of the most emotionless players in the NFL.

On the other side...look at Drew Brees---the Cardinals hit him numerous times---but Brees never lost his nerve and if anything got even more psyched and determined to prevail.

Palmer crawled into a shell.

BA had two great things going in the first drive---a running game and open passes to Michael Floyd.

Neither of those things were emphasized again until it was way too late.

This guy Mendenhall---he's pretty darned good. Ellington---pretty darned good---and both bring sorely needed speed to what is a boringly slow offense otherwise.

8. Rob Housler? Comes off as a way over-hyped space cadet who does not command the ball. Charles Hawkins commanded the ball in this offense. If he can---why can't Housler? Does he strike anyone as a hungry competitor? Or just another ghost on game-days?

9. Patrick Peterson---not into punt returns for the second straight year. He's fair catch happy and far more tentative than he was as a rookie. I really have to question too how badly he wants to play of offense. He's functioning in the role---but do you get the sense that he really doesn't want the role? He says he does---but what would it say about him if he says otherwise?

However, his role on offense might be in some way helping him on defense as he is playing smoothly and well within himself and the rule in coverage. In other words, he not over-playing as he sometimes has been prone to do.

10. Why in the world was Larry Fitzgerald playing late in the game? What, to add another 8 yard catch for his stats? The previous HC did the same---and this time having been out all week, it was absurd to play him once the game was a rout. Even if he didn't miss the week---is it really worth the risk of a senseless and thoroughly avoidable injury?

With each week now I am going to end with a question of the week---

Would you trade the 2014 and 2015 1st round picks to Cleveland for LT Joe Thomas? (assuming that is what it would take to acquire him)

I would make the trade with certain conditions. The picks would have to be above #10 and of course his contract would have to make sense as to length and amount. If we kept the picks and had two top 10 selections we should be able to find one starting LT????????

We have only played 3 games and I am not ready to throw in the towell. Two more games and I may be if they are played like this. Look what the addition of Andrew Luck has done for the Colts. From last place to a contender. That is what a dominant QB can do for you. Big Ben sure got it handed to him by the Bears. Peyton Manning is still Peyton Manning and may be the best QB to ever play in the NFL. He turned Denver from a decent team into a possible Superbowl team. Kepperneck came back to earth and may not be the superstar many of us have proclaimed him to be. The problem I see with the running QBs is the risk of injury at some point in the season. I do not care how elusive you are or how fast there will come a time when you get nailed. It is just a matter of time. Manning is almost a stationary QB but gets the ball off so darn fast and recognizes the defenses so well it is very hard to ever get a good hit on him. Our QB is sure not elusive but few would escape the rush of the Saints LT against Levi. That guy was around Levi by 3 feet before you could count to two. I think a more mobile faster defender rather than Levi would work much better. These guys make Levi look like he is standing still. Clearly we looked awful against the Saints. Most teams have in their house. If you have a team that is really poor at defending the QB would it not make sense to develop the no huddle defense? That is part of what makes Manning so hard to tackle. The defense does not have time to set up or plan their defense. Levi is not going to get any better I do not think. We actually did pick up some good RB's this year. Mendenhall is still a good RB and Pittsburgh misses him.

 

[Duckjake]

I don't know about that. Levi doesn't help, but our QBs have been bad regardless.

Our QB was awesome when Levi was RT.

 

[Cardiac]

QB >>>>>>>>>>>>> than any other position and has the biggest impact on a team.

My concern is we draft Matt Leinart all over again. Well that's the cowards way of thinking so if the opportunity is there or can be created (Redskins getting RG3) then DO IT.

Trading 2 #'1s for a LT is silly IMHO and stupid if you don't have a franchise QB.

If we can't get a QB in the next draft then look hard at LT and Pass Rushers. I would prefer the pass rusher because I hate watching our D get lit up more than a sputtering Offense (last year excluded).

 

[WildBB]

Definitely need new blood behind center next year. Palmer's already a dinosaur. That's all I got to say.

 

[BigRedRage]

Definitely need new blood behind center next year. Palmer's already a dinosaur. That's all I got to say.

I dont know how that can already be the word, Palmer can play just fine. Throwing a fresh greenhorn rookie into the fire isnt going to help much. Even if we draft a blue chip QB I would prefer he sits and learns for a year or two like rodgers did. Palmer can win games just fine.