morons kings fans disrespecting the suns

[Chaz]

wow - Chaz - someone's not happy with me. All I was saying weas that bakc-up PG is a sore spot - does that make me an "expert" - no - a moron could tell you that much.

And my problem is that the Suns will probably struggle against ANYONE without Nash - just as they did last season. I mean we didn't just struggle without Nash during that stretch where he was out - we flat out STUNK.

What's your problem here?

You're right and there was more to it than just missing Nash.

We got our ass kicked with Nash to start that stretch.

My problem is you seem to be saying that we have no team without Nash and I contend that is not the case. Sure he is important, probably the most important piece along with Amare right now but I don't believe the team would completely crumble with out Nash at this point.

Like I said before I don't think they would beat Sac on the road when they shoot 60% for three but then who would?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Your right and there was more to it than just missing Nash.

We got our ass kicked with Nash to start that stretch.

My problem is you seem to be saying that we have no team without Nash and I contend that is not the case. Sure he is important, probably the most important piece along with Amare right now but I don't believe the team would completely crumble with out Nash at this point.

Like I said before I don't think they would beat Sac on the road when they shoot 60% for three but then who would?

okay - I'm just of a different opinion. This team wouldn't even make the playoffs without Nash - that's my opinion. That's how unbelievable a player I think Nash is - and I thank God every day I wasn't running the Suns in the offseason when I was drooling over KoMe!

If he stays healthy in the playoffs - we SHOULD beat anyone in the first two rounds, but the Spurs do scare the crap out of me. I just see us as the Colts and the Spurs as the freaking Patriots - you know - no stars, but just solid and puncing on every mistake. I hate the Spurs.

 

[clif]

honestly clif - stick to football, er, uh...

The fact that you think if the ball is over the basket that is fair game speaks volumes to me - that is why it's not much fun talking about anything.

You want to make the argument that somehow Miller missed the shot SOOO badly that he threw the ball IN FRONT of the rim, rather than short-arming it fine - but I think that argument is almost as stupid as dsaying Josh McCown progressed throughout the season.

give me a break.. you obviously are missing the point...once again.. that when you say over the rim no one is arguing that it would be a goaltend. The ball was higher than the rim, but not over it therefore a legit block.

 

[Cheesebeef]

give me a break.. you obviously are missing the point...once again.. that when you say over the rim no one is arguing that it would be a goaltend. The ball was higher than the rim, but not over it therefore a legit block.

clif - you are an ignoramus if you think I am arguing that ANY ball OVER the height of the rim ANY WHERE ont he court is a goal-tend. I believed that ball to be over the rim when I saw Amare block it - based on how clsoe Brad Miller was to the bucket, how clsoe his hand was to the rim when he lert it go but after looking at the replay again- it is IMOSSIBLE to really tell where that ball is. I mean Miller is RIGHT UNDER the hoop and his hand is inches away from the rim - how far off the rim could the ball really have been - if it was - but on the other hand - Amare is up there so freaking quick, that maybe he did get to it before it even crossed any of the rim. Call could have gone either way is what I'm sticking with. I erred earlier when I said it was a goaltend - I don't think anyone can say with any preciseness that the play was absolutely clean or a bad call in reality - and in the end - WHO CARES!

We won a huge game and it was fun watchign the Queens whine like the freaking ******* that they are!

I'd like to see a skyward shot of the poay - but you know what - the ref's don't get that angle, so it really doesn't matter.

 

[elindholm]

Some of you need some instruction in basic geometry.

 

[elindholm]

There's a reason why there aren't any trolls on this board.

Actually, we have one, but since he's a moderator on one of the other forums, we aren't permitted to say anything. Heck, we can't even put him on Ignore, which I find exasperating.

 

[cly2tw]

Upfront, it's about half of the ball over the rim. We also need a picture from the side to judge the exact position of the ball at the moment of the block.
Why not show some more evidence instead of drawing conclusions from insufficient evidence?

 

[George O'Brien]

okay - I'm just of a different opinion. This team wouldn't even make the playoffs without Nash - that's my opinion.

I think the Suns would make the playoffs if Nash wasn't on the team, but no better than 7th or 8th seed. Last season the Suns finished with 500 record over the last month and half - which is about what it will take to get into the playoffs. The difference this year is that have not gotten used to playing without Nash and had to try to learn on the road in the midst of a bunch of back to back games.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think the Suns would make the playoffs if Nash wasn't on the team, but no better than 7th or 8th seed. Last season the Suns finished with 500 record over the last month and half - which is about what it will take to get into the playoffs. The difference this year is that have not gotten used to playing without Nash and had to try to learn on the road in the midst of a bunch of back to back games.

that team hads more size - ie. McDyess actually providing big minutes an anchor down low. This team has none of that and their pieces work so well because we run the hell out of everyone.

They would win 35 games - maybe 40 max without Nash IMO. No way in hell would they make the playoffs.

 

[Gaddabout]

The Kings wrap-up folks showed the replay about 40 times last night, and at least five people answered it. Only one would say they thought it was goal tending. The others confessed it was too close to call and could not say the ball was definitively within the cylinder. A Kings camera man had a nice close enough just behind Miller looking up. From that angle, it looked like it was about 2 inches off the rim.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You watch 10-20 games a year but you are the expert.

QUOTE]


what does that have to do with ANYTHING?

 

[Cheesebeef]

You watch 10-20 games a year but you are the expert.

QUOTE]


what does that have to do with ANYTHING?

easy there big bro - actually screw it - GET'EM!!!!!!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

so you're saying that the Brad Miller's shot is basically IN FRONT of the rim - he missed the shot THAT BADLY? I mean in essence - Amare's block was superflous since if the ball wasn't really over the basket AT ALL, there's no way it would have gone - that's what you are saying?

We got a call - it happens - to try and play it off as if we didn't just makes me shake me head.

hmm, i didn't buy into cheese's goaltending argument earlier, but deductive reasoning does seem to support him here. from the angle that brad took the shot, midway between the lane and the baseline from the side of the basket, the only two things that can be true are:

a) his shot was in front of the rim meaning it was so far off that the block, did indeed mean nothing; or

b) his shot was over the rim and the block was more likely a goaltend.

the position of brad coupled with where the ball is in that photo would suggest the latter. maybe we did get away with one here. if that's the case i'm happier than if it was a real block b/c it shows that the suns are getting calls even away from home against a superior opponent. sweet!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Just because the basketball wasn't over the basket when Amare blocked it doesn't mean that it wasn't going to go in. When someone shoots the ball they just don't throw it straight up, they throw it towards the hoop. I'm just saying that from the picture you showed there is NO way to tell where the ball is on that trajectory. My example may have been a bit hyperbolic, but it proves my point that there in no way to show depth and a picture from that far away proves nothing; not that is wasn't a goaltend and not that it was.

kj7, while your argument holds water, take into consideration where miller was shooting from . . . off to one side of the basket. now consider the trajectory . . . if the ball is coming from the side and ball appears over the rim in that photo it either has to be above the cylinder when amare is blocking it, or it has to be a god awful shot with no shot of going in as it is coming from the side and going over the front of the hoop. i think THAT's cheese's argument.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think the Suns would make the playoffs if Nash wasn't on the team, but no better than 7th or 8th seed. Last season the Suns finished with 500 record over the last month and half - which is about what it will take to get into the playoffs. The difference this year is that have not gotten used to playing without Nash and had to try to learn on the road in the midst of a bunch of back to back games.

no, another, and VERY important factor, is that this year we're running a MUCH different system. and this system is SUPER reliant on a superior pg like nash. i'd be surprised if we went .500 if nash went out.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

easy there big bro - actually screw it - GET'EM!!!!!!

just seemed a superfluous argument to me. i don't mind people making arguments, but have some juice behind for god's sake.

 

[elindholm]

the only two things that can be true are:

a) his shot was in front of the rim meaning it was so far off that the block, did indeed mean nothing; or

b) his shot was over the rim and the block was more likely a goaltend.

Come on.

c) the ball was still going up, meaning that it had plenty of opportunity to rise above the rim by the time it got there.

It's just not that mysterious.

 

[George O'Brien]

that team hads more size - ie. McDyess actually providing big minutes an anchor down low. This team has none of that and their pieces work so well because we run the hell out of everyone.

They would win 35 games - maybe 40 max without Nash IMO. No way in hell would they make the playoffs.

I liked having McDyess, but he was not the only factor. As for running, the Suns were committed to running whether they signed Nash or not.

 

[Cheesebeef]

okay - here's a come on right back at you e - IT'S A FREAKING LAYIN - the ball doens't go THAT high on a layin. You guys are making it sound like Miller was throwing up a moonshot layup. Sheesh.

 

[elindholm]

okay - here's a come on right back at you e - IT'S A FREAKING LAYIN - the ball doens't go THAT high on a layin.

Who says it has to go "that high"? Miller released the ball below the rim. It has to go up. It sounds like you think he was right at the rim when he released the ball, but that is simply not correct. I'd guess the ball was at least a foot from the rim when he first let go of it, probably more.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I liked having McDyess, but he was not the only factor. As for running, the Suns were committed to running whether they signed Nash or not.

Okay George - I disagree heavily with you and as evidence - I will simply point to us completely falling apart seemingly at every turn when Nash has gone out.

Did you see last night when we looked like the Keystone cops out there at the end of the third-beginning of the fourth? Or against the Spurs - or against the Wizards, Hornets, Pacers, or Detriot.

Last year's team wasn't running - and there's a reason - they had no one to run the show. Now if Nash was only out one game and we looked bad, fine - I'd give your tehory a little credence - but we seemingly got WORSE as the time period went on, so I don't buy that argument.

 

[clif]

okay - here's a come on right back at you e - IT'S A FREAKING LAYIN - the ball doens't go THAT high on a layin. You guys are making it sound like Miller was throwing up a moonshot layup. Sheesh.

he pretty much was.. That shot was pure garbage and that is why Amare was able to elevate so quickly and smack it back in his face

 

[Chaz]

You watch 10-20 games a year but you are the expert.

QUOTE]


what does that have to do with ANYTHING?

It has to do with the fact that Cheese is basing his expertise on incomplete information. That and what I percieved as a condecending attitude about his knowledge of how the Suns play.

I think he misses and discounts the times that the Suns are great without Nash on the floor.

In any event it is over and simply a difference of opinion. In fact not even a difference of opinion but a disagreement about the the degree of that opinion.

 

[Tank]

okay - here's a come on right back at you e - IT'S A FREAKING LAYIN - the ball doens't go THAT high on a layin. You guys are making it sound like Miller was throwing up a moonshot layup. Sheesh.

It could have been a floater

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

the only two things that can be true are:

a) his shot was in front of the rim meaning it was so far off that the block, did indeed mean nothing; or

b) his shot was over the rim and the block was more likely a goaltend.

Come on.

c) the ball was still going up, meaning that it had plenty of opportunity to rise above the rim by the time it got there.

It's just not that mysterious.

how does that refute the argument regarding the angle from which it came? look, i only saw the replay once and maybe i'm forgetting where miller was when he took the shot, but if he wasn't centered on the basket and the ball came from the side and it the shot was on-line with going in, the only place it could be in that photo is over the cylinder. a shot cannot come from the side, find its way to right in front of the basket and then suddenly veer left into the basket.