Morris twins contract extension

[Mainstreet]

I like him a lot but I like him as a center in our lineup. We need someone that can give us a low post game and he can do that at both ends of the court plus he runs the floor well. I just see him as a near perfect fit for what we lack and what we want to do. He's a better Miles IMO although I'm still hoping that Miles can get closer to this level.

Steve

I blew it. I wanted him to play PF besides Len or Plumlee.

Now I want to hear what BC867 thinks.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I blew it. I wanted him to play PF besides Len or Plumlee.

Now I want to hear what BC867 thinks.

If you could pair him next to someone like Hawes, maybe, but his lack of an outside shot would create problems for us. Also, our biggest need is someone with a low post game and he would give us that. We really don't need him if we're convinced Len is going to become a top 15 center in the league but if that's in doubt, Mason makes us instantly better.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

I blew it. I wanted him to play PF besides Len or Plumlee.

Now I want to hear what BC867 thinks.

You can do that? Do you have to get really close or something?

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

You can do that? Do you have to get really close or something?

Steve

I admit I'm using ESP but I'd be the first to admit I haven't perfected my technique. Actually, I just guess a lot.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I admit I'm using ESP but I'd be the first to admit I haven't perfected my technique. Actually, I just guess a lot.

Guessing worked for the blind lookout in the Men in Tights movie, I don't see why it wouldn't work for you.

Steve

 

[SirStefan32]

That is so off base, I'm quite surprised--you are usually more knowledgable and this is just baffling. I've never been a fan of the Morris twins, but I'm surprised you are so upset here. Especially with the cap going up significantly over the next two years.

Kieff was far and away a better player than Channing last season and yet you're upset he's getting paid the exact same? As I said before, if Kieff matches what he did last year, then 8m is a great number. If he did the same thing and we hadn't signed him to an extension, what do you think he'd get next summer? Probably a lot more than 8m per.

As for Marcus, I think 5m per is fine for a guy that averaged 10ppg/4rpg/1spg isn't bad. Especially if he can improve and there is nothing that says he can't because he improved significantly over the course of last season.

I am not upset, just surprised at the numbers. I hope I am wrong, but to me, this seems like way too much. I'd also disagree that Morris was a better player than Frye last season, and that's coming from someone who is NOT a Frye fan.

 

[PhxGametime]

I've been hyping up Mason Plumlee since early on in College, he'd be ideal to play with Morris brothers and even alongside Len/Plumlee (for defensive purposes). I saw Gortat like talent in him, though he never developed perimeter game ala Gortat midrange game.

Favors is another of up and comers that Jazz not be sold on, Sanders, Millsap w/ only 1 year on contract, Amir Johnson same as Millsap, Jordan Hill, Faried, Gibson, Splitter, etc. - Drummond, Ibaka, Horford, DeAndre Jordan, (if want proven) or not there yet: Nerlens Noel, Steven Adams, Gorgui Dieng, Rudy Gobert, Lucas Nogueira... IMO, Suns need to find a soon to be star/semi-star; solid w/ upside, that takes it to another level aka Gortat, Dragic, Bledsoe, Finley, Diaw, Green, Miles Plumlee, so and so on - rather than just Top-10 talent.

I armchair GM'd every one of those Suns players or former and they all exceeded expectations; and I've stroken out as well lol (Terrence Williams, Earl Clark, plenty more) but it's not as easy to Trade scraps for Star. Not one of the listed Suns were highly regarded before arrival and w/ as many mistakes as I've had lol - McDonough is money.

 

[Mainstreet]

I've been hyping up Mason Plumlee since early on in College, he'd be ideal to play with Morris brothers and even alongside Len/Plumlee (for defensive purposes). I saw Gortat like talent in him, though he never developed perimeter game ala Gortat midrange game.

Favors is another of up and comers that Jazz not be sold on, Sanders, Millsap w/ only 1 year on contract, Amir Johnson same as Millsap, Jordan Hill, Faried, Gibson, Splitter, etc. - Drummond, Ibaka, Horford, DeAndre Jordan, (if want proven) or not there yet: Nerlens Noel, Steven Adams, Gorgui Dieng, Rudy Gobert, Lucas Nogueira... IMO, Suns need to find a soon to be star/semi-star; solid w/ upside, that takes it to another level aka Gortat, Dragic, Bledsoe, Finley, Diaw, Green, Miles Plumlee, so and so on - rather than just Top-10 talent.

I armchair GM'd every one of those Suns players or former and they all exceeded expectations; and I've stroken out as well lol (Terrence Williams, Earl Clark, plenty more) but it's not as easy to Trade scraps for Star. Not one of the listed Suns were highly regarded before arrival and w/ as many mistakes as I've had lol - McDonough is money.

I forgot about Derrick Favors. I've heard rumors but I always doubted the Jazz would let him go. It looks like the Suns are content with their roster unless someone special comes along. It looks like Faried has found a home.

 

[Mainstreet]

Guessing worked for the blind lookout in the Men in Tights movie, I don't see why it wouldn't work for you.

Steve

I missed the movie and I certainly would not look good in tights.

 

[BC867]

If the expectation is to win the championship this year prepare for disappointment.

I said the bar has been raised from the preceding season, so it is time to stop looking back.

And you took that to mean "win the championship this year"? You're kidding, right!

Besides, the Spurs won the NBA championship this year. See what exaggerating leads to.

I hope that Horny can work miracles and take the Suns another step forward next season.

 

[crisper57]

What we really need is a guy on Team USA where the players work out whose team they will all join.

We do have the market cornered on Team Slovenia deals, but I think we've exhausted that pipeline.

 

[sunsfan88]

What we really need is a guy on Team USA where the players work out whose team they will all join.

We do have the market cornered on Team Slovenia deals, but I think we've exhausted that pipeline.

Bledsoe is our best American player but he's pretty shy and I doubt he's capable of doing even the least bit recruiting.

This is where a guy like Chandler Parsons could have helped. Smart move Cuban, even if it was a slight overpay...

 

[crisper57]

Team USA HQ to be in Tempe. Maybe that'll give us an in someday.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I said the bar has been raised from the preceding season, so it is time to stop looking back.

And you took that to mean "win the championship this year"? You're kidding, right!

Besides, the Spurs won the NBA championship this year. See what exaggerating leads to.

I hope that Horny can work miracles and take the Suns another step forward next season.

I think Jeff will do a good job but our success will ride mostly on how well our young guys improve. I'm looking for decent steps forward by Len, Plumlee, Marcus, Markieff and Goodwin in addition to Warren finding his way through his rookie season. If Len or Plumlee truly earn a starting center role as opposed to last year when it was someone's job by default, we could be a scary team.

Steve

 

[BC867]

I think Jeff will do a good job but our success will ride mostly on how well our young guys improve. I'm looking for decent steps forward by Len, Plumlee, Marcus, Markieff and Goodwin in addition to Warren finding his way through his rookie season. If Len or Plumlee truly earn a starting center role as opposed to last year when it was someone's job by default, we could be a scary team.

Steve

I think we're saying the same thing, Steve.

It is our coaching staff who will play a large role in developing the young guys in so many key ways.

 

[PhxGametime]

I forgot about Derrick Favors. I've heard rumors but I always doubted the Jazz would let him go. It looks like the Suns are content with their roster unless someone special comes along. It looks like Faried has found a home.

I'm content not having to make deal this year, I just worry everyone is too concerned about Superstar. First the Suns would have-to outbid Teams or send majority of assets. While the next Gortat, Diaw, Bledsoe, Dragic, IT, etc. (similar talent) is out there to be had for much cheaper.

Having Possible (upside, player hasn't blossomed, etc.) similar level type talent at the 4 or 5 (like 4 mentioned above) while keeping Dragic, Bledsoe, Thomas, and only sending out 1-3 Firsts (Future possibly too for super talent: Drummond, etc.) and a young piece; or even Trading 2015 Picks to move up in Draft is simpler than adding Superstar.

Every Team wants Superstars, but McDonough is qualified enough to find a diamond in rough, or Top-100 player improving to Top 10 or Top 20/30, for fraction of cost. If disgruntled (with current Team) Superstar comes our way, there's that too. Heh

 

[Phrazbit]

I am not upset, just surprised at the numbers. I hope I am wrong, but to me, this seems like way too much. I'd also disagree that Morris was a better player than Frye last season, and that's coming from someone who is NOT a Frye fan.

We're in agreement on this one.

Markieff and Frye are comparable on the glass and defensively, Frye is probably the better help defender with his blocking ability. Morris is the steadier offensive threat but Frye provides a real value in spreading the court that Morris does not.

But Markieff's contract is not what goads me. I think fair value for him is 4 years 28 mil, or 3-21. So his deal is not that far off. Marcus on the other hand is a replacement level player. There is no way signing him to a 4 year deal makes sense unless its for beans. I seriously think on the open market he would be looking at 2 mil per year, 2 year deal. We overpaid him by about 400%.

I think they should have waited a year. I know everyone is sour on the restricted free agent process after what just happened with Bledsoe, but if they were serious about taking a discount to stay together I think that would have been something to cash in on with them both being RFA. Hard to imagine teams would have been willing break the bank and give 4 year offer sheets to both these guys with the Suns having the ability to pluck the better valued one away.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

We're in agreement on this one.

Markieff and Frye are comparable on the glass and defensively, Frye is probably the better help defender with his blocking ability. Morris is the steadier offensive threat but Frye provides a real value in spreading the court that Morris does not.

But Markieff's contract is not what goads me. I think fair value for him is 4 years 28 mil, or 3-21. So his deal is not that far off. Marcus on the other hand is a replacement level player. There is no way signing him to a 4 year deal makes sense unless its for beans. I seriously think on the open market he would be looking at 2 mil per year, 2 year deal. We overpaid him by about 400%.

I think they should have waited a year. I know everyone is sour on the restricted free agent process after what just happened with Bledsoe, but if they were serious about taking a discount to stay together I think that would have been something to cash in on with them both being RFA. Hard to imagine teams would have been willing break the bank and give 4 year offer sheets to both these guys with the Suns having the ability to pluck the better valued one away.

These deals obviously didn't happen in a vacuum - there is no doubt that Marcus probably got a sweet deal, but the Morri are a package deal, and if it means an extra million or two to his brother/spiritual advisor, I can live with it.

If both continue to show incremental improvement, their contracts will look like relative bargains as time goes on.

 

[Phrazbit]

These deals obviously didn't happen in a vacuum - there is no doubt that Marcus probably got a sweet deal, but the Morri are a package deal, and if it means an extra million or two to his brother/spiritual advisor, I can live with it.

If both continue to show incremental improvement, their contracts will look like relative bargains as time goes on.

I think an extra million or two would have made this like a 44 million dollar package deal. But I thought this was supposed to be a discount for keeping them together? They were supposedly willing to take less to ensure they got to play together, instead we paid a premium.

Like I said earlier, I dont hate it, its not going to make or break us, but it seemed like we took what could have been an advantageous contract arrangement and turned it into the opposite.

Hopefully they do show improvement.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think an extra million or two would have made this like a 44 million dollar package deal. But I thought this was supposed to be a discount for keeping them together? They were supposedly willing to take less to ensure they got to play together, instead we paid a premium.

Like I said earlier, I dont hate it, its not going to make or break us, but it seemed like we took what could have been an advantageous contract arrangement and turned it into the opposite.

Hopefully they do show improvement.

I think you're way off on the twins current value but keep in mind these salaries don't kick in for another year. There are 130 players making more money right now than Marcus will make when his new contract kicks in a year from now. It looks like a slight overpay for Marcus but it's not by much and it won't be in a year or two even if he's already plateaued. Markieff OTOH would have probably made 10 million or more per on the open market, IMO.

Steve

 

[Phrazbit]

Are you saying you think Markieff would get 40+ million on the open market next year because of the presumed increase in stats this coming season, or are you saying you think if he was a free agent right now he'd get 40+ million?

If its the second I just cant see it being anywhere near that. I hope Markieff improves and shows himself to be a reliable starter but I think outside of Suns fans the perception of him is "nice backup PF".

 

[AzStevenCal]

Are you saying you think Markieff would get 40+ million on the open market next year because of the presumed increase in stats this coming season, or are you saying you think if he was a free agent right now he'd get 40+ million?

If its the second I just cant see it being anywhere near that. I hope Markieff improves and shows himself to be a reliable starter but I think outside of Suns fans the perception of him is "nice backup PF".

For me there isn't any question, he'd have gone for around 10 per this summer. Sure, some of that would be in anticipation of his continued growth as a player in addition to the anticipated salary cap increase. But even prior to last season, IMO, he was held in much higher regard throughout the league and would have drawn a better salary than most of us would have believed. If he were 30 years old, 8 might be the max he'd draw but at his age he's still going to get paid on the come. Given the age difference, putting him in Millsap's range sounds about right.

Steve

 

[Superbone]

For some reason Suns fans seem to undervalue the Morii compared to outsiders around the league which is strange because usually it's the other way around.

 

[AzStevenCal]

For some reason Suns fans seem to undervalue the Morii compared to outsiders around the league which is strange because usually it's the other way around.

Yeah if you watch the games with the other set of announcers they almost always talk highly of the twins and that was even before Markieff stepped up his game last year. I know that an announcer or an analyst isn't the same thing as a scout or a GM but the buzz about these two guys has been incredible.

Steve

 

[Suns_fan69]

Even Mark Gasol, wasn't considered much when he was traded to Memphis, but, according to some would fit the superstar role (I am not sure myself).

Marc Gasol might not be a 'superstar' but he would be a HUGE addition to the Suns, and he is a UFA at the end of this coming season as well.

Horford is another guy that I would love to get on the Suns but probably is a pipe dream at best.

Demarcus Cousins would be interesting, if Sacramento decides they've had enough of the Boogie experiment. I'm not sure the Suns could tolerate his antics but you can't deny his talent.