Mort Just Said Leinart to Start!

[moklerman]

he's been horrendous for five years

That's what I'm talking about. You're implying he's played 5 NFL seasons poorly(80 games) when in reality, he's only started 29 games since the beginning of 2002. Last year he started 10 games and was the 14th ranked qb in the league with the highest rating a Cardinals qb has had in 20 years not to mention breaking the team's record for completion pct. His last 19 starts in 2004/2005 he put up an 85+ passer rating. That seems a lot different than "he's been horrendous for 5 years".

din another thread and say Plummer's been a turnover machine the laast couple years

I said he "was" a turnover machine. The last 3 years with the Cardinals he had 40+ int's/fumbles. Cardinals ran him out of town and he, basically overnight, wasn't a turnover machine. Doesn't it at least present the possiblity that maybe things aren't always as cut and dried as they appear? Warner has a problem right now. It's possible good coaching(or something) can fix it.

 

[Folster]

Lost in the turnovers is another problem I noticed with Warner. On third down plays Warner continuously had opportunities to easily scamper for a first down, but instead chose to throw a long pass for an incompletion. It drove me crazy because it would have been so easy for even him to pick up a first and move the chains. Warner's threat to run is non-existent and opposing defenses take advantage of that. The one time he scampered Sunday he ended up getting the first down. Leinart is no Michael Vick but he showed in the pre-season that if he can run for an easy first, he will.

 

[Cheesebeef]

That's what I'm talking about. You're implying he's played 5 NFL seasons poorly(80 games) when in reality, he's only started 29 games since the beginning of 2002. Last year he started 10 games and was the 14th ranked qb in the league with the highest rating a Cardinals qb has had in 20 years not to mention breaking the team's record for completion pct. His last 19 starts in 2004/2005 he put up an 85+ passer rating. That seems a lot different than "he's been horrendous for 5 years".

I said he "was" a turnover machine. The last 3 years with the Cardinals he had 40+ int's/fumbles. Cardinals ran him out of town and he, basically overnight, wasn't a turnover machine. Doesn't it at least present the possiblity that maybe things aren't always as cut and dried as they appear? Warner has a problem right now. It's possible good coaching(or something) can fix it.

Warner has had a problem for his last THREE teams - that's three sets of coaches who couldn't fix his problem - there's one constant in that equation - KURT WARNER.

As far as the Plummer thing - you're changing what you're saying - you never said anything about his time with the Cardinals - you said the last five years - when in reality, Plummer has gotten better, whereas Warner has gotten worse, ridiculously so.

As far as your 80 games argument, I'm not exaggerating ANYTHING - I haven't said anything about games, I've said for five years Warner has put up a ton of turnovers and not many wins - 10-23, 25:46 turnover/td ratio - sorry, but that's horrific. And why hasn't he played in all 80 games? Well, it's because a) he's injury prone b) he's a turnover machine and c) franchises know when it's time to fish and cut bait.

Using his number versus a Cardinals QB's number as validation means NOTHING as well as I'm not a believer in battered wife syndrome, so some one not being AS BAD as former Cardinals doesn't mean much to me. We're seeing a guy disintegrate before our very eyes - it happens to QBs. It happened to Marino, it's happened to Favre, it happpened to every great QB who hung on too long and that's where Warner is now - QB's at his age don't all of sudden correct mistakes they've been making with regularity for five years.

 

[moklerman]

Using his number versus a Cardinals QB's number as validation means NOTHING

Yes, if you look deeper than just the stat sheet it does. The environment surrounding the Cardinals over the last 25 years isn't condusive to good qb play. Do we really need to make a list of all the circumstances? Warner played some of the best ball any qb has under said circumstances. It doesn't prove anything but it does present the possibility that he's still viable.

I haven't said anything about games, I've said for five years Warner has put up a ton of turnovers and not many wins - 10-23,

And that's my point. You have to look at the games and the circumstances as well as the stat sheet. You keep pointing out how well Plummer's played in Denver the last two years yet seem to completely disregard the fact that Warner's had about the same passer rating over those same two years for lesser teams.

you never said anything about his time with the Cardinals - you said the last five years

??? Don't the last five years include the Cardinals? You seem to still be completely missing the point of why I even mentioned that. Plummer had turnover problems with the Cardinals. Overnight, he suddenly didn't have turnover problems. Or at least that's what the perception is.

Warner has had a problem for his last THREE teams - that's three sets of coaches who couldn't fix his problem - there's one constant in that equation - KURT WARNER.

If that's as simplistic as you're going to present things it's obvious to me that you refuse to even acknowledge possibilites and circumstances. Martz benched Warner after 1 bad half of football and he was never given the opportunity to get his job back. Please don't tell me it was because Bulger was playing so well in 2003. If you think that then you know absolutely nothing. In 2004, Warner led the league in lowest interception % and managed the game without any WR's, QB'ing the Giants to 5-4. What was their record with Eli? What was the difference in passer rating? I'll let you check on those things since you like to focus on the menial. Now, the Cardinals might be making a switch as well but do you honestly believe that Warner was the problem in most of the games he started? Not the o-line, not the D, not the playcalling or penalties, but Warner?

 

[Savage58]

I see you all are having fun.

I just want to say in regards to Leinart starting now....

HELL YEAH!!! Lets get it started.