Murray’s Performance

[BW52]

Murray is the least of this teams problems period...

A competent Oline and a decent average D and this is a .500 right now with some better WR weapons and an above average D and we are a playoff team. The biggest problem with this team is a D that can’t stop even back up QBs from lighting us up period!

Nonsense.A game like yesterday is cause for concern.KM did absolutely nothing to lead to winning yesterday.A total cluster****.Everything concerning yesterday's performance by the team should be cause for concern.Murray might not be top of the list of problems but ignoring his pathetic play yesterday and his continued issues in the RedZone and taking sacks are issues.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Nonsense.A game like yesterday is cause for concern.KM did absolutely nothing to lead to winning yesterday.A total cluster****.Everything concerning yesterday's performance by the team should be cause for concern.Murray might not be top of the list of problems but ignoring his pathetic play yesterday and his continued issues in the RedZone and taking sacks are issues.

Murray's play yesterday should not be ignored. Nor, should it be the focus today. He is a rookie... and yes, rookies do get the luxury of allowances for a bad game now & then. I think it's pretty remarkable that, given the shocking lack of talent that surrounds him, that his worst performance by far came in week 13, when the performance of the entire team - including the coaching, also hit their lowest levels of the season.

Of FAR MORE concern is how an entire team can come out of a Bye and simply not show up... It points to a severe lack of leadership, both within the coaching and the player ranks. As a rookie, Murray isn't yet able to assume an authoritative/leadership role. I would expect that he will do so in Year 2. The team needed others, other than the rookie QB to take on the leadership role. That clearly hasn't happened.

 

[DeAnna]

We can disagree here. Murray has looked pretty meh vs the good teams he has faced. SF is probably the only exception.

Yeah, I kinda agree. Full disclosure - I did not like the Murray pick (I wanted Bosa). He's been ok, but hard to gage with all the ineptitude surrounding him.

I think he's hit that rookie wall (which happens around week 12). That's probably why Arians didn't play rookies until later in the year 'cause he knew they would fizzle out by week 12. Not used the NFL grind which lasts 17 weeks.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Yeah, I kinda agree. Full disclosure - I did not like the Murray pick (I wanted Bosa). He's been ok, but hard to gage with all the ineptitude surrounding him.

I think he's hit that rookie wall (which happens around week 12). That's probably why Arians didn't play rookies until later in the year 'cause he knew they would fizzle out by week 12. Not used the NFL grind which lasts 17 weeks.

This has been Murray's first really bad game as a pro where rookies have bad games all of the time. One game doesn't equal a wall.

Our schedule has some tough ones in there, and some winnable games against Pittsburgh and Cleveland.

 

[Chopper0080]

This has been Murray's first really bad game as a pro where rookies have bad games all of the time. One game doesn't equal a wall.

Our schedule has some tough ones in there, and some winnable games against Pittsburgh and Cleveland.

Bad vs the Rams
Bad vs the Saints
Bad vs the Giants
Bad vs the Seahawks
Bad vs the Panthers

That is 5 legit bad games this season. I will even give you the game vs the Ravens even though it was very up and down.

Let's not pretend that this was the only blip on the season so far. It is ok. He is not surrounded by a ton of talent, and has very little starting experience. However, that doesn't change his bad games from being bad games.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Saints, 19/33 0TDs 0 T0s. That's not bad, that is the epitome of average.

Giants 14/21 0TD/0T0. Average as well, but looks a lot better when you factor in that this is the game that Chase Edmonds went off for 126 yards and 3TDs.

Seahawks 22/32 1TD (rushing) 1TO. Again average.

You call his average games bad, when they are average. So I refute you and your 5 bad games claim.

I haven't claimed he has been perfect, but you have already shown your bias.

 

[Solar7]

Saints, 19/33 0TDs 0 T0s. That's not bad, that is the epitome of average.

Giants 14/21 0TD/0T0. Average as well, but looks a lot better when you factor in that this is the game that Chase Edmonds went off for 126 yards and 3TDs.

Seahawks 22/32 1TD (rushing) 1TO. Again average.

You call his average games bad, when they are average. So I refute you and your 5 bad games claim.

I haven't claimed he has been perfect, but you have already shown your bias.

Not scoring touchdowns is considered “average” now?

Not exactly a great example of using stats to support your narrative.

 

[DVontel]

Bad vs the Rams
Bad vs the Saints
Bad vs the Giants
Bad vs the Seahawks
Bad vs the Panthers

That is 5 legit bad games this season. I will even give you the game vs the Ravens even though it was very up and down.

Let's not pretend that this was the only blip on the season so far. It is ok. He is not surrounded by a ton of talent, and has very little starting experience. However, that doesn't change his bad games from being bad games.

I don’t agree with the Giants. He didn’t have a standout game, but due to that weather, we didn’t need him to due to Chase.

Weirdly enough, I thought Kyler was more impressive in the Saints game than the Panthers & Seahawks games, despite not scoring a TD that game.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

the size difference is like me clothelining my 11 year old son.

Agreed.

I am happy Donald treated him so gently to be honest

Sent from my mystical communication warp drive device thingy

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I agree with all of this post, except for the average NFL talent. The Rams are definitely above average in talent, and have the best player in the NFL in Donald. I'd love to hear why you think the Rams only have average talent.....

7-5 and doesn't look like the team can compete with the best of the best in the league.

Not here to gauge between decent, good and great to be honest.

You want to say they are above average, thats fine with me.

Kyler has to up his mental/preparation, but see no reason why he cannot or will not.



Sent from my mystical communication warp drive device thingy

 

[DVontel]

Also, was Leinart vs Warner really more polarizing than this?

Serious question because I wasn’t here at the time.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Not scoring touchdowns is considered “average” now?

Not exactly a great example of using stats to support your narrative.

Yes. When you combine the fact that he also isn't turning the ball over, you should consider that average. He isn't doing anything 'bad' to hurt the team. That is average.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Also, was Leinart vs Warner really more polarizing than this?

Serious question because I wasn’t here at the time.

It was, for a short while.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

7-5 and doesn't look like the team can compete with the best of the best in the league.

Not here to gauge between decent, good and great to be honest.

You want to say they are above average, thats fine with me.

Kyler has to up his mental/preparation, but see no reason why he cannot or will not.



Sent from my mystical communication warp drive device thingy

This is pretty much the same team, and the same talent that went to the superbowl just last year, and added an all pro in Ramsey. Why they aren't winning, isn't an issue with talent IMO.

 

[Solar7]

Yes. When you combine the fact that he also isn't turning the ball over, you should consider that average. He isn't doing anything 'bad' to hurt the team. That is average.

I've had plenty of conversations with people on this board who would call guys who threw 3 TDs and 1 pick "awful," but okay... I guess not contributing to the win (or in this case loss) is considered "average."

I don't get it. Seems like more excuses for the guy. If you wanted to key up an average performance, at least bring up his yardage and ability to move the guys up and down the field for others to convert for points.

I would consider "average" throwing for 2 TDs and playing mostly mistake free football as long as something else was going on well around you.

 

[Russ Smith]

this was a bad game. I would say he could have easily had 5 picks yesterday, 1 dropped, two called back by penalty(both good calls) and there was another one where the DB jumped the route and nearly had it. We have not seen that from Kyler since I think the Baltimore game, and this was considerably worse. He just didn't seem to recognize what they were doing and it got a bit dicey for a bit as a result. Hopefully he learned from it.

If he's that bad next week I'll be concerned, I doubt he would be.

I do think he needs to respond to adversity better, people are mentioning the big hit by Donald but he also seemed really irked by the play where Byrd took off downfield and Kyler threw the ball short to him on the left sideline. IT was a blitz hot read similar to what Isabella did in the prior game and it really seemed to bother Kyler that Byrd didn't break off the route.

He has to handle that better

 

[82CardsGrad]

I've had plenty of conversations with people on this board who would call guys who threw 3 TDs and 1 pick "awful," but okay... I guess not contributing to the win (or in this case loss) is considered "average."

I don't get it. Seems like more excuses for the guy. If you wanted to key up an average performance, at least bring up his yardage and ability to move the guys up and down the field for others to convert for points.

I would consider "average" throwing for 2 TDs and playing mostly mistake free football as long as something else was going on well around you.

Curious... What were your expectations for Murray this year?

 

[Solar7]

Curious... What were your expectations for Murray this year?

My expectations? That he'd play poorly and wouldn't be a major replacement that contributed to major wins.

The expectations built for me after discussing with other posters? That he'd be a player who would make an instant impact on the franchise and at least push us to a level where the playoffs weren't out of reach by the end of October.

He's been better than I initially anticipated, but I'm still missing the transcendent portion that was so often brought up. Now it's getting worrisome when the last couple of reports are about his frustration.

 

[Card'em]

I really liked what Murray said in his post-game interview. He said that he has trust his line a little more, stay in the pocket a little longer and let plays develop. He said that he knows he will get hit a little more, but that's ok. To me, bailing out early was a major problem for Kyler yesterday, and something that most rookie QB's have to learn not to do. Understanding his mistakes and being willing to correct his flaws is crucial to his development, and I think Kyler gets it. We have to remember that the kid is still a rookie, playing on a really poor team in his first year. He'll be just fine in time.

 

[cardpa]

Saints, 19/33 0TDs 0 T0s. That's not bad, that is the epitome of average.

Giants 14/21 0TD/0T0. Average as well, but looks a lot better when you factor in that this is the game that Chase Edmonds went off for 126 yards and 3TDs.

Seahawks 22/32 1TD (rushing) 1TO. Again average.

You call his average games bad, when they are average. So I refute you and your 5 bad games claim.

I haven't claimed he has been perfect, but you have already shown your bias.

For me an average game for any QB would be 200+ yds passing, 1-2 TD passes and at most 1 INT and a completion rate of 55% or better. Anything under these numbers is below average to bad.

 

[ajcardfan]

I really liked what Murray said in his post-game interview. He said that he has trust his line a little more, stay in the pocket a little longer and let plays develop. He said that he knows he will get hit a little more, but that's ok. To me, bailing out early was a major problem for Kyler yesterday, and something that most rookie QB's have to learn not to do. Understanding his mistakes and being willing to correct his flaws is crucial to his development, and I think Kyler gets it. We have to remember that the kid is still a rookie, playing on a really poor team in his first year. He'll be just fine in time.

And one who really has never had anything but success at any level. 6A high school in Texas is basically a level of college football. Like FCS. Then, he flourished in his play at Oklahoma and did ok as Freshman at A&M. Basically, he's never faced this level of adversity before. Of course he won't be an expert at dealing with it. Rosen knew what it was like to get his ass beat hard at UCLA. Murray doesn't have the benefit of that experience.

That is not making an excuse, just stating an observation. I have no idea what will happen along those lines. Just like I had no idea how he would do when we drafted him.

 

[82CardsGrad]

My expectations? That he'd play poorly and wouldn't be a major replacement that contributed to major wins.

The expectations built for me after discussing with other posters? That he'd be a player who would make an instant impact on the franchise and at least push us to a level where the playoffs weren't out of reach by the end of October.

He's been better than I initially anticipated, but I'm still missing the transcendent portion that was so often brought up. Now it's getting worrisome when the last couple of reports are about his frustration.

Well... I certainly can't address what you were led to believe from other posters... However, if you have been following the NFL for any length of time, you would know how rare it is for a rookie QB to simply step into the NFL and instantly create wins. It hardly ever happens. Especially on teams that are as depleted of talent as are the Cardinals. Still, Murray has shown enough to more than suggest brighter days lie ahead for him and hopefully, the team...No great QB is good enough to overcome incompetency at the GM and coaching levels... and Murray seems to be in a position where he will need to do just that in order to create more wins.
But his stats alone represent massive improvement over last season. His completion % and TD to INT ratio are extremely solid. As a rookie, he ranks 13th overall in total passing yards. 11th in QBR and a sub-par Passer Rating of 88.4. He's also proven to be a legit threat to run, rushing for 446 yards and 4 TD's thus far.

Yesterday was incredibly bad... but it was the first time all season where Murray looked bad for an entire game. It will be VERY interesting to see how he bounces back next week. If it looks like yesterday, I would say we all have a lot to worry about with him. My hunch is that he bounces back and at minimum, looks more like he has in previous games. I still think Pitt is going to win as this team simply sucks. Pitt's 4th string QB should have an all-star performance, especially once he figures out he can target his tight end all game.

 

[Krangodnzr]

My expectations? That he'd play poorly and wouldn't be a major replacement that contributed to major wins.

The expectations built for me after discussing with other posters? That he'd be a player who would make an instant impact on the franchise and at least push us to a level where the playoffs weren't out of reach by the end of October.

He's been better than I initially anticipated, but I'm still missing the transcendent portion that was so often brought up. Now it's getting worrisome when the last couple of reports are about his frustration.

Now you are just pulling crap out of your butt.

I cant think of ONE poster who even remotely, seriously said playoffs. Not one.

 

[Solar7]

Well... I certainly can't address what you were led to believe from other posters... However, if you have been following the NFL for any length of time, you would know how rare it is for a rookie QB to simply step into the NFL and instantly create wins. It hardly ever happens. Especially on teams that are as depleted of talent as are the Cardinals. Still, Murray has shown enough to more than suggest brighter days lie ahead for him and hopefully, the team...No great QB is good enough to overcome incompetency at the GM and coaching levels... and Murray seems to be in a position where he will need to do just that in order to create more wins.
But his stats alone represent massive improvement over last season. His completion % and TD to INT ratio are extremely solid. As a rookie, he ranks 13th overall in total passing yards. 11th in QBR and a sub-par Passer Rating of 88.4. He's also proven to be a legit threat to run, rushing for 446 yards and 4 TD's thus far.

Yesterday was incredibly bad... but it was the first time all season where Murray looked bad for an entire game. It will be VERY interesting to see how he bounces back next week. If it looks like yesterday, I would say we all have a lot to worry about with him. My hunch is that he bounces back and at minimum, looks more like he has in previous games. I still think Pitt is going to win as this team simply sucks. Pitt's 4th string QB should have an all-star performance, especially once he figures out he can target his tight end all game.

Well, I've had this argument all year long with people. It's nothing new. I'm not sure you were one of the people I discussed this with all offseason.

I fully understand that it's almost impossible for rookies to come in and have an immediate impact on wins, but again, I had to fight this fight with people. I didn't feel that KM was a surefire bet to be an improvement, and that there were upcoming QBs I felt much more excited about. KM has been pretty good, undoubtedly! Do I believe he's the surefire answer to our problems yet? No, and yesterday's an example of why.

I felt we made some wild choices in the offseason - choices Keim made to try to desperately save his job, instead of good football moves - and they might not develop into a winning strategy. Murray is going to continue to be questioned and picked over until he starts to pair yardage with wins and leadership.

As it stands now, we're 4 games from the end of the season, and this choice is going to cost a lot of people their jobs, and require us to find someone who believes in Kliff and Kyler moving into the future. It's hard for me to be optimistic.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Well, I've had this argument all year long with people. It's nothing new. I'm not sure you were one of the people I discussed this with all offseason.

I fully understand that it's almost impossible for rookies to come in and have an immediate impact on wins, but again, I had to fight this fight with people. I didn't feel that KM was a surefire bet to be an improvement, and that there were upcoming QBs I felt much more excited about. KM has been pretty good, undoubtedly! Do I believe he's the surefire answer to our problems yet? No, and yesterday's an example of why.

I felt we made some wild choices in the offseason - choices Keim made to try to desperately save his job, instead of good football moves - and they might not develop into a winning strategy. Murray is going to continue to be questioned and picked over until he starts to pair yardage with wins and leadership.

As it stands now, we're 4 games from the end of the season, and this choice is going to cost a lot of people their jobs, and require us to find someone who believes in Kliff and Kyler moving into the future. It's hard for me to be optimistic.

For the record and for whatever it's worth, I was and remain luke-warm at best about both Kliff and Kyler... Actually, I'm a bit more optimistic about Murray than I am of Kingsbury. I think Kyler has the mental and physical attributes needed to be successful. I don't know what that "success" will look like, but whereas pre-season I had serious doubts about Murray having a long-term career in the NFL, I can now say that I am pleasantly surprised and can see him being more successful than not over a long career.
I passionately believe Keim's time has come and gone. He needs to go. Like now. And I remain luke-warm at best about Kliff. I just don't get good vibes from his "too cool for school," Lulu Lemon wearing vibes... a guy who doesn't seem to have a grasp on the entire team - just the offense.