Murray's 2nd Pick

[Chopper0080]

From what I saw it looked like a fairly easy run in.

You guys know I love Murray the player and I believe in him, but the dude needs to somewhat get over his fear of taking hits.

He easily scores there if he runs hard to the edge.

He plays little where I don't feel like Brees and Russ do.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

If Murray runs for it, it's an easy TD there. Great play call, **** execution.

Not sure that makes it "great play call" as it would have required Murray to have to scramble to make it work, but I do agree with the decision to go for it there.

 

[nashman]

He plays little where I don't feel like Brees and Russ do.

ROOKIE, people need to remember this geesh. And he had been getting hit all day by the Steelers and has rightfully so zero faith in anyone blocking. Trying to make a play and it backfired. poo happens and the Steelers are the number 1 takeaway defense in all of football. Smart coaches take the guaranteed points there and don’t risk getting zero, you think for one second Bellichik doesn’t kick the 3 there and make it a one score game? Kyler wasn’t playing well all day then you put him in that position? KK is much more of a concern to me than KM just sayin...

 

[nashman]

Also what exactly did Brees or Russ do in their rookie years??? Were they so good everyone knew they were gonna be HOF’s, I don’t think so...

 

[Cheesebeef]

From what I saw it looked like a fairly easy run in.

You guys know I love Murray the player and I believe in him, but the dude needs to somewhat get over his fear of taking hits.

He easily scores there if he runs hard to the edge.

this is totally fair.

my biggest fear... the Suns and Cardinals finally get the number 1 picks and get their Center and QBOTF and both have all the talent in the world... but are basically the epitome of "looks like tarzan, plays like Jane".

 

[Cheesebeef]

Also what exactly did Brees or Russ do in their rookie years??? Were they so good everyone knew they were gonna be HOF’s, I don’t think so...

Russel Wilson helped the Seahawks get to the the playoffs with an 11-5 record, throwing for 3200 yards 26 TDs and 10 int while rushing for 489 yards and another 4 TDs and came within a minute of going to the NFC Title game after leading Seattle to would have been a game-winning drive to take the lead with a little over a minute left on the road in Atlanta..

 

[Krangodnzr]

Russel Wilson went to the playoffs with an 11-5 record and game within a minute of going to the NFC Title game.

Yes...with a top 5 Defense...in the history of the NFL.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Also what exactly did Brees or Russ do in their rookie years??? Were they so good everyone knew they were gonna be HOF’s, I don’t think so...

Wilson was good his rookie year, but didn't really come on until the end of the year. Brees wasn't good at all until his 4th season.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Russel Wilson helped the Seahawks get to the the playoffs with an 11-5 record, throwing for 3200 yards 26 TDs and 10 int while rushing for 489 yards and another 4 TDs and came within a minute of going to the NFC Title game after leading Seattle to would have been a game-winning drive to take the lead with a little over a minute left on the road in Atlanta..

He also had a great run game and all time great defense backing him. He was already pretty good that year though. He also played 4 years of college ball along with the help he had on the roster.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yes...with a top 5 Defense...in the history of the NFL.

Nashman asked what he did. I answered. yes. he had a great D but there's no way they win 11 games and a road playoff game and come within a couple minutes of going to the NFC Title game without Wilson. Dude made an immediate impact as far as wins and losses were concerned.

 

[Krangodnzr]

this is totally fair.

my biggest fear... the Suns and Cardinals finally get the number 1 picks and get their Center and QBOTF and both have all the talent in the world... but are basically the epitome of "looks like tarzan, plays like Jane".

Murray lacked experience. Every naysayer pointed that out and it has proven to be true.

He has a lot of the good, hard to coach traits though. His accuracy and arm strength are top notch, but his reaction to the blitz and certain game situations is questionable right now.

Like I said, another big impediment is that he plays like he is made out of glass. He can run harder and take a few more hits.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Murray lacked experience. Every naysayer pointed that out and it has proven to be true.

He has a lot of the good, hard to coach traits though. His accuracy and arm strength are top notch, but his reaction to the blitz and certain game situations is questionable right now.

Like I said, another big impediment is that he plays like he is made out of glass. He can run harder and take a few more hits.

all fair again.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Nashman asked what he did. I answered. yes. he had a great D but there's no way they win 11 games and a road playoff game and come within a couple minutes of going to the NFC Title game without Wilson. Dude made an immediate impact as far as wins and losses were concerned.

Yes but could Murray have done the same under the same circumstances?

Maybe. Russell wasnt exactly playing with the 31st ranked defense and sub par running game. He was soon fed a bit early on and his team carried him. The narrative early in his career was that he was a game manager. It was true his first year or two, but it's a laughable view now.

 

[kerouac9]

Yes...with a top 5 Defense...in the history of the NFL.

He was also extremely efficient. 8th in DYAR, 6th in DVOA. 9th in Total QBR. As a rusher, he had a higher DVOA than Andrew Luck or RG3.

He was extremely good in the context of the offense that he was in.

 

[Krangodnzr]

He plays little where I don't feel like Brees and Russ do.

I dont disagree.

Maybe an offseason of NFL caliber training and focusing on football alone will help.

 

[DVontel]

Yes but could Murray have done the same under the same circumstances?

Maybe. Russell wasnt exactly playing with the 31st ranked defense and sub par running game. He was soon fed a bit early on and his team carried him. The narrative early in his career was that he was a game manager. It was true his first year or two, but it's a laughable view now.

Right.


In no way I’m comparing Kyler to Russell. Kyler has played awful the past two games. Russell is awesome, but I also think Kyler is pressing way too damn much because he literally has to carry the team week in & week out. On a game-to-game basis. Russell didn’t have to because he also had a top 5 defense of all time + dominant RB backing him.

Still, Kyler has a ways to go to get to Russell’s level.

 

[Krangodnzr]

He was also extremely efficient. 8th in DYAR, 6th in DVOA. 9th in Total QBR. As a rusher, he had a higher DVOA than Andrew Luck or RG3.

He was extremely good in the context of the offense that he was in.

Easy to be efficient when you are supported by a REALLY good rushing threat and historically great defense.

 

[kerouac9]

Easy to be efficient when you are supported by a REALLY good rushing threat and historically great defense.

Really? Data?

 

[football karma]

but his reaction to the blitz and certain game situations is questionable right now.

yes

whats clear to me: Murray has one year of college starting experience, plus a handful of games in other years

that lack of experience is showing up.

i also think 3rd down and end of game struggles are related

D coordinators save their best stuff for those situations --

Last drive, K1 just looks utterly perplexed --

yet the drive prior looked calm and collected.

i think its a combo of Kliff needing to be better and K1 needing to be wayyyyy better

 

[TheCardFan]

Easy to be efficient when you are supported by a REALLY good rushing threat and historically great defense.

Really? Data?

Marshawn Lynch rushed for 1,600 yards and the defense gave up an average of 15 pts/game.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I have often seen guys say they are alright due to pride, but there is also a possibility that Murray's hamstring is still bothering him or simply in his head right now. Regardless, KM botched the play. The kid hates losing and I think he has tough mentality. Hence, I think it's an appropriate catalyst that people do rail on him for his mistakes which can only help him learn not to do them... yeah, I think young players do read the forums till they become secure as a pro

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I have often seen guys say they are alright due to pride, but there is also a possibility that Murray's hamstring is still bothering him or simply in his head right now. Regardless, KM botched the play. The kid hates losing and I think he has tough mentality... hence, I think it's a good thing that people do rail on him for his mistakes which can only help him learn not to do them

It could be that or just the speed of that Steelers' defense was in his head. He had been unable to break contain all day on the perimeter and maybe that made him shy away from running in that situation.

 

[kerouac9]

Marshawn Lynch rushed for 1,600 yards and the defense gave up an average of 15 pts/game.

that doesn’t support the assertion that it’s easy to be efficient as a passer in those circumstances.

 

[Russ Smith]

FWIW Kliff apparently said they didn't really consider kicking the FG there. "Analytics says you go for it" to paraphrase what he said and he said we needed 2 scores he believes you go for the TD first. That's my disagreement, with 4 minutes yeah, with over 12 minutes no.

Again I don't dispute we should have gotten the first down, I don't know if he scores it's hard to judge how fast people close but he would have got the first down easily had he run. It should have worked there and we should have scored there but I don't agree with going there.

Like I said I literally could not believe we actually snapped the ball

 

[AZ Native]

It was the right call. There was great coverage in the end zone but KM had a wide open path to the first down about 3 yards away. He could have run out of bounds and made the first down if he was worried about being hit. Or maybe he thought he had to score a TD and that is why he did not run for the easy first down. He is a running QB, that is why we drafted hime #1. He made a poor read on that play. Coach put him in a position to get the first down. KM made a poor decision. Many QBs tuck the ball on a passing play like that and run for the first down. KM did not, this is on him. It was 4th and 2 on the 6 yard line. Who knows if we could get that close again if we kick the field goal.