My Cards Draft---No Trades

[Catfish]

Rd. 1. Pick 5. Robert Quinn, DE/OLB, N. Carolina
6-5, 268, 4.64 (40)
So explosive he can beat the tackle with speed even
when late off the ball. Has a rare combination of burst
and flexibility that allows him to dip under the tackle's
reach. His strength is improving, yet he has the frame
to add 10-15 lbs. without losing speed or quickness.

Rd. 2. Pick 38. Colin Kaepernick, QB, Nevada
6-5, 225, 4.53 (40)
Very mobile and a tremendous athlete. A strong-armed
QB can throw lasers, yet also has a nice touch. Reads
defenses well. Has an outstanding ability to escape
the pass rush and throws accurately on the move.
Extremely fast and agile for his size. Shows good
footwork from within the pocket.

Rd. 3. Pick 70. John Moffitt, OG, Wisconsin
6-4, 314, 5.26 (40)
2010 AP All-American. 2010 All Big-Ten, (Coaches)
At the Senior Bowl, Moffitt's strength and balance
made him the toughest draw for defensive tackles
during drills. He blasted holes at the first level, and
at times blocked 15 yards downfield.

Rd. 4. Pick 102. Rashard Carmichael, CB, Va. Tech.
6-0, 223, 4.38 (40)
A fearless competitor who just keeps working and
working. Very fast, and agressive, and very agile. Led
his team in interceptions with 6 this year. Was
honored by coaches for putting his team first.

Rd. 5. Pick 134. Thomas Keiser, OLB, Stanford
6-5, 246, 4.84 (40)
This is a red-shirt Junior, who is an academic Senior
with a year of eligibility left. Tallied 19.5 sacks in 38
career games for the Cardinal. 2010 selection for
Honorable Mention, All-Pac-10, (Coaches).

Rd. 6. Pick 166. Ryan Whalen, WR, Stanford
6-1, 205, 4.56 (40)
This dependable wideout led all Stanford recievers in
each of the last two years. He is a technically sound
player who improved in every facet of his game since
his arrival in 2007.

Rd.7. Pick198. Derek Hall, OT, Stanford
6-5, 305, 5.24 (40)
Hall is the less hyped of the two tackles on th O-line
that protected Andrew Luck. He helped produce the
second best sack protection in college football in 2010,
just 5 team sacks allowed all year. Hall has the
potential to be a starter in the NFL.

 

[NashDishesDimes]

You make it sound like they are all 1st rd picks. What are the knocks on these guys?

 

[Catfish]

You make it sound like they are all 1st rd picks. What are the knocks on these guys?

And I suppose that when you are selling a car you advertise all the bad things about it. Get real. If you really want to know, the weaknesses are right there alsongside the strengths that I found when I did my research.

 

[Hypothesis]

Wow...you really like your Stanford guys don't ya lol.

Good mock Cat. I really like the Rashard Carmichael pick. He's definitely a project but he has all the tools. Well, his tackling technique makes DRC look like a tackling machine, but other than that he looks good. His tackling can be worked on.

 

[NashDishesDimes]

And I suppose that when you are selling a car you advertise all the bad things about it. Get real. If you really want to know, the weaknesses are right there alsongside the strengths that I found when I did my research.

Huh?? Yea you better list the bad when your selling a car else your a scum bag.

I see absolutely no knocks on any of those guys in your thread.

its a good thread i aint bashin it i just literally wanted to know the drawbacks.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Great job.

But, I would be extremely disappointed with that draft.

IMHO, Quinn is a reach at #5, Kapernick (sp?) is all hype and a huge risk at a position were there is going to be 1st round value.

If John Moffit is there in the 3rd round, I would be surprised, and THRILLED if the Cardinals took him.

Yet, I like the CB, and OLB selection. There is no need for a late round WR for the Cardinals since we have plenty of project WR's under contract already. Maybe a TE or ILB ?

Still good job, good read.

 

[az jam]

Nice work, these are fun to discuss.

Quinn's stock will rise or fall based on what he does in the Combine. I'm not sure if he is an OLB for the 3 - 4 defense. His conditioning, size, speed, etc will be on display at the Combine in Indy.

I like Kaepernick and think that you are right if you want him you have to probably take him in the 2nd round. I also like Ponder there.

Would love to see Moffitt last to our third round pick. I do like Carmichael with the 4th round pick.

Stanford had a good team so those picks I'm sure would be fine plus you have to have some brains to attend Stanford (even the jocks), that doesn't hurt.

 

[Catfish]

Huh?? Yea you better list the bad when your selling a car else your a scum bag.

I see absolutely no knocks on any of those guys in your thread.

its a good thread i aint bashin it i just literally wanted to know the drawbacks.

Okay here goes-----Quinn is often the last one off the ball at the snap. When he times it right, he literally blows away the tackles. When he is late, he still has enough to win most of the time. His effort is sometimes under suspicion. He also has some off field activity that is questionable. It appears he accepted some extra help that he shouldn't have, and was suspended for it.

Kaepernick played in a small program against lesser competition, except for Boise St and a couple of other schools. Of course he also had less to work with, being from a small program. Not much to find bad here. He has a delivery flaw, where he will sometimes stop his throw at the top of his delivery. THat is workable though, with proper coaching. This kid has set more records than can be counted, literally. His upside is huge, and his weaknesses are minimal.

Moffitt lacks straight-line speed. He sometimes gets engulfed by longer armed and taller tackles. His toughness helps immensely though.

Carmichael wasn't thrown at very much, so he has not been battle tested like some CB's have. That was the downside with DRC. He is great when no one throws at him because he has a much weaker CB opposite him. He did great when McFadden was opposite, (also the guy the year before McFadden-----I can't think of his name right now, maybe Hood, but not sure). Carmichael is not afraid of contact like DRC however, and is pretty fearless. He will mix it uup with you, whereas DRC shuns contact altogether. DRC doesn't appear to be nearly as good when Toler is playing opposite him, as he did before Toler got a chance to start. Other teams now throw to DRC much more than they did before Toler broke into the lineup, and DRC no longer looks the part of a complete shut-down corner.

The honest truth about the 3 Stanford guys, is that they just happened to be the best players available where our next picks fell. They came from a great program with the best QB in college today. They are all smart, hard working guys who place team before self. They do not seem to seek the limelight. Not much has been written about them, but their body of work speaks for itself.
I was very surprised when they fell like they did. I even tried to eliminate each of them because of the same school connection, but found that they were the best picks available in each case. I am just as surprised as you are.

 

[slinslin]

I don't see the point of drafting a QB unless we take one of the top prospects at #5 we might just as well stick to Skelton and whoever we sign or trade for.

Wasted 2nd rounder imo

Don't need to sign or trade for a starting QB with two young 2nd rate QB prospects on the bench.

 

[ARodg]

Moffit's weakness is not speed. There's a library of film showing him pulling and getting to the 2nd leve. Moffit's one of the most complete O-Lineman in the draft, and if he falls to the third it's a dream come true for the Cards.

 

[Catfish]

I don't see the point of drafting a QB unless we take one of the top prospects at #5 we might just as well stick to Skelton and whoever we sign or trade for.

Wasted 2nd rounder imo

Don't need to sign or trade for a starting QB with two young 2nd rate QB prospects on the bench.

Pretty much proven last year that we should really have 4 QB's going into the season. A proven vet to replace Skelton, a practice team guy, and two backups, just because of injury etc. Since there may not be a signed CBA, we would only have Skelton, and Hall signed-----leaving only Anderson as the next choice. Meanwhile, Kaepernick has possibly more upside than any other QB in the draft, and passing on him would probably be more harmful than having Newton taken before we choose.

 

[Krangodnzr]

IMHO, Quinn is a reach at #5, Kapernick (sp?) is all hype and a huge risk at a position were there is going to be 1st round value.

Granted I hate the whole draft prognosticator game, but how is Quinn a reach when most mocks have him going before or just after we pick?

Quinn is bigger, stronger, takes on blocks better than Von Miller. IMO he's a lot better against the run and will only be a little less of a pass rusher. He's the entire package, while Miller is a bit one dimensional.

 

[Chopper0080]

Granted I hate the whole draft prognosticator game, but how is Quinn a reach when most mocks have him going before or just after we pick?

Quinn is bigger, stronger, takes on blocks better than Von Miller. IMO he's a lot better against the run and will only be a little less of a pass rusher. He's the entire package, while Miller is a bit one dimensional.

I believe that Quinn is a reach because he hasn't played in over a year, he has only one college season with over 2 sacks, and has never played the position that we would be drafting him for.

How and if he performs the linebacker drills at the combine will be our first indicator if he is even an option at #5.

 

[overseascardfan]

I believe that Quinn is a reach because he hasn't played in over a year, he has only one college season with over 2 sacks, and has never played the position that we would be drafting him for.

How and if he performs the linebacker drills at the combine will be our first indicator if he is even an option at #5.

+1, I don't see why people keep refering to Miller as a one trick pony. 68 tackles, 19.5 TFL, 10 sacks, 6 PBU, 1 INT means he got into the backfield and can cover. Played extremely well in the Senior Bowl against other top SR talent. Well he isn't strong enough, bullcrap, come Week 1 he could easily be at 250 after an offseason with Lott. Elvis Dumervil and other small speed rushers have done well in the NFL. You can't teach speed folks but you can gain strength. Quinn is talented, no arguing that but he had a great SO year but didn't play last year and would be learning a position he never played in college. We need OLB help now, Miller starts Day 1. If ARZ stays at #5 and Peterson isn't there he is the pick IMO.

 

[Buckybird]

+1, I don't see why people keep refering to Miller as a one trick pony. 68 tackles, 19.5 TFL, 10 sacks, 6 PBU, 1 INT means he got into the backfield and can cover. Played extremely well in the Senior Bowl against other top SR talent. Well he isn't strong enough, bullcrap, come Week 1 he could easily be at 250 after an offseason with Lott. Elvis Dumervil and other small speed rushers have done well in the NFL. You can't teach speed folks but you can gain strength. Quinn is talented, no arguing that but he had a great SO year but didn't play last year and would be learning a position he never played in college. We need OLB help now, Miller starts Day 1. If ARZ stays at #5 and Peterson isn't there he is the pick IMO.

It's not that Miller is 236 lbs it's his build!!! Have you ever seen the guy play? His body in a fooball uni looks thin & thats a fact. As far as as comparing him to Dumervil...their builds are on the opposite sides of the earth, he's much thicker in the lower body & thats a trait that the very good 3-4 OLB's possess. Putting Miller together with DWash & shoefield is a receipe for disaster IMO.

BTW-I think Miller will be the choice too(if there) though I prefer Justin Houston

 

[Hypothesis]

+1, I don't see why people keep refering to Miller as a one trick pony. 68 tackles, 19.5 TFL, 10 sacks, 6 PBU, 1 INT means he got into the backfield and can cover. Played extremely well in the Senior Bowl against other top SR talent. Well he isn't strong enough, bullcrap, come Week 1 he could easily be at 250 after an offseason with Lott. Elvis Dumervil and other small speed rushers have done well in the NFL. You can't teach speed folks but you can gain strength. Quinn is talented, no arguing that but he had a great SO year but didn't play last year and would be learning a position he never played in college. We need OLB help now, Miller starts Day 1. If ARZ stays at #5 and Peterson isn't there he is the pick IMO.

I doubt very seriously Miller starts day one. I doubt any rookie starts day one for this defense. Take a look back at how many rookies start on Pittsburgh's defense. I believe Horton will use the same model here.

As for comparing Miller to Dumervil or as I've seen in some other places, Harrison...there is no comparison. Both Dumervil and Harrison are much stronger at the POA than Miller and both have much better frames and builds. Elvis is 4" shorter yet outweighs Miller by what, 12lbs? Harrison is 3" shorter and outweighs Miller by 10lbs?

Sure Miller has played OLB and both rushed the passer and dropped into coverage, but as for his pass rush, he is a one trick pony. If he doesn't out run his blocker and get the sack, he is generally washed out of the play. Von was surprisingly also very rarely double teamed. Pretty odd considering how productive he was don't ya think? Another thing that turns me off from Miller is, that his own coach in college would pull him on a lot of running situations. His own coach knew he is largely ineffective vs. the run.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I doubt very seriously Miller starts day one. I doubt any rookie starts day one for this defense. Take a look back at how many rookies start on Pittsburgh's defense. I believe Horton will use the same model here.

As for comparing Miller to Dumervil or as I've seen in some other places, Harrison...there is no comparison. Both Dumervil and Harrison are much stronger at the POA than Miller and both have much better frames and builds. Elvis is 4" shorter yet outweighs Miller by what, 12lbs? Harrison is 3" shorter and outweighs Miller by 10lbs?

Sure Miller has played OLB and both rushed the passer and dropped into coverage, but as for his pass rush, he is a one trick pony. If he doesn't out run his blocker and get the sack, he is generally washed out of the play. Von was surprisingly also very rarely double teamed. Pretty odd considering how productive he was don't ya think? Another thing that turns me off from Miller is, that his own coach in college would pull him on a lot of running situations. His own coach knew he is largely ineffective vs. the run.

Exactly as I see it.

A good pro LT IMO will completely nullify Miller. Quinn still can beat people with a straight up bullrush; you don't see that from Miller.

As for taking him because you've seen film of him playing 3-4 OLB....if that's the case, then take Justin Houston, who is over 20 lbs. larger and looks the part unlike Von Miller.

 

[Chopper0080]

Exactly as I see it.

A good pro LT IMO will completely nullify Miller. Quinn still can beat people with a straight up bullrush; you don't see that from Miller.

As for taking him because you've seen film of him playing 3-4 OLB....if that's the case, then take Justin Houston, who is over 20 lbs. larger and looks the part unlike Von Miller.

I would be more comfortable with Houston than Quinn. Especially with a quick trade back, thus adding some value.

 

[Hypothesis]

I would be more comfortable with Houston than Quinn. Especially with a quick trade back, thus adding some value.

I'll take either but prefer Quinn. Quinn just has much more upside than Houston in my opinion, and has better natural ability. Houston is really stiff in the hips and will struggle in coverage more so than Quinn imo.

 

[Catfish]

I'll take either but prefer Quinn. Quinn just has much more upside than Houston in my opinion, and has better natural ability. Houston is really stiff in the hips and will struggle in coverage more so than Quinn imo.

I agree with Hypo about taking Quinn over Houston. Quinn has such a tremendous burst that he is still able to beat most tackles even when he doesn't get off the ball quickly or is late. No one else in the draft possesses that quality. His athleticism is fantastic.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I agree with Hypo about taking Quinn over Houston. Quinn has such a tremendous burst that he is still able to beat most tackles even when he doesn't get off the ball quickly or is late. No one else in the draft possesses that quality. His athleticism is fantastic.

Agree, but I'm really in love with trading back and taking Houston though. IMO he's got a fantastic burst, and those 22 TFL are very nice.

MEMO to those concerned about pass coverage ability:

It shouldn't be considered whatsoever; whoever we take needs to be a downhill, in the backfield kind of guy that also excels at setting the edge. That's why in my book, for overall talent, the 3-4 OLBs at the top of the draft are ranked like this:

1) Robert Quinn (risky since he missed a season)
2) Justin Houston (not as great a pure athlete, but looks the part)







3) Von Miller (Great first step, but small and will have difficulties with double teams).

 

[Hypothesis]

Agree, but I'm really in love with trading back and taking Houston though. IMO he's got a fantastic burst, and those 22 TFL are very nice.

MEMO to those concerned about pass coverage ability:

It shouldn't be considered whatsoever; whoever we take needs to be a downhill, in the backfield kind of guy that also excels at setting the edge. That's why in my book, for overall talent, the 3-4 OLBs at the top of the draft are ranked like this:

1) Robert Quinn (risky since he missed a season)
2) Justin Houston (not as great a pure athlete, but looks the part)







3) Von Miller (Great first step, but small and will have difficulties with double teams).

I agree with your ranking 1 through 3, but that bolded part I completely disagree with. In any 3-4, especially Lebeau's fire zone blitz schemes, the LBs are asked to do tons of coverage and if they can't hold their own in a cover 3 shell, the entire defense suffers mightily.

That was one part of our defensive downfall, that our DBs have been constantly asked to do more than they should have because none of our LBs did squat in pass protection.

 

[Chopper0080]

I'll take either but prefer Quinn. Quinn just has much more upside than Houston in my opinion, and has better natural ability. Houston is really stiff in the hips and will struggle in coverage more so than Quinn imo.

But yo have to factor in that Houston has played a season standing up, while Quinn hasn't. It is great to project players from DE to OLB, but at 5, I would almost prefer the guy who has at least shown that he can do it.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I agree with your ranking 1 through 3, but that bolded part I completely disagree with. In any 3-4, especially Lebeau's fire zone blitz schemes, the LBs are asked to do tons of coverage and if they can't hold their own in a cover 3 shell, the entire defense suffers mightily.

That was one part of our defensive downfall, that our DBs have been constantly asked to do more than they should have because none of our LBs did squat in pass protection.

See, any time I've seen the OLBs of Pittsburgh "dropping into coverage" it's really only dropping into shallow zones, not running downfield with tight ends.

Most players can do that, I've seen Eric Swann do it before.

 

[Chopper0080]

See, any time I've seen the OLBs of Pittsburgh "dropping into coverage" it's really only dropping into shallow zones, not running downfield with tight ends.

Most players can do that, I've seen Eric Swann do it before.

G A M