My latest whacky blowing it up strategy

[HooverDam]

all players whom you said would get us 25 wins next season... no thanks!

Ill take 25 wins, with some young talent, the Suns own pick back and some other picks over 42 wins, no 2010 pick and just having players expire and getting nothing for them.

 

[TBaslim]

Based on the latest rumors running about the internets, how's this for a rebuild on the fly strategy (designed to keep Nash and Hill in the fold next year at minimum and transition to a younger, more cap-friendly team). The goal is to stay competitive and build a younger roster of parts that enable trades/free agency to rebuild a contender over the next few years...

Trade 1:
Phx sends:
Shaq

Phx receives:
Tyson Chandler
Sasha Pavlovic
Devin Brown

Cleveland sends:
Ben Wallace
Sasha Pavlovic
Future 1st Rounder

Cleveland receives:
Shaq

New Orleans sends:
Tyson Chandler
Devin Brown

New Orleans receives:
Ben Wallace
Future 1st Rounder (Cleveland)


Cleveland gets Shaq for expirings and a pick (keeping their title hopes and Lebron retention hopes alive).

New Orleans gets cap relief and a future pick.

Suns get Chandler at a cheaper price than Shaq and two years to see if they want to keep him. Waive Sasha for cap savings. Brown is salary filler.

Trade 2:
Phx sends:
Amare

Phx receives:
Tyrus Thomas
Joakim Noah
Tim Thomas

Chicago sends:
Tyrus Thomas
Joakim Noah
Tim Thomas

Chicago receives:
Amare

Chicago gets their young superstar to pair with Rose. Amare will re-sign in the big city.

Phx gets to rent Noah and Tyrus for a year and decide if they are long term pieces. Tim Thomas will be in a contract year and should add value on the front line.

Trade 3:
Phx sends:
2009 #14
2009 #58 (or whatever the late 2nd rounder pick is)

Phx receives:
OKC #25
Phx 2010 1st rounder

OKC sends:
OKC #25
Phx 2010 1st rounder

OKC receives:
2009 #14
2009 #58 (or whatever our late 2nd rounder pick is)

OKC gets their next piece to build around Durant (Mullins?). They apparently are in no rush to contend immediately. They want a team to grow around him. Someone like BJ Mullins fits that timeline.

Suns get a lower cap figure role player at 25 this year, and retain their pick next year.


What do we have at the end of all this?

2009/10 Suns:

PG: Nash/Dragic/LB
SG: JRich/LB/Tucker/#25
SF: Hill/Tim T/Dudley/#25
PF: Tyrus/Tim T/Noah/Amundson
C: Chandler/Noah/Lopez


That's a team that can run all day long with Nash. The frontcourt loses lots of scoring without Amare and Shaq, but gains serious defense, rebounding and mobility against teams out west with big frontlines (LA, Portland, SA, Clippers, etc).

Tim Thomas can play SF against big teams. Get a good shooter at SF with #25 (Daye/Bundinger/etc), and we have plenty of offense from Nash/LB/JRich and Hill/TT/25. Maybe add a late free agent offensive option at SF or SG in this down $$ year, and even better.

Run with that for a year, both to keep the fans showing up with exciting regular season ball, and to evaluate the young talent. If we make the playoffs, great. If not, we have our 2010 pick back. Based on the year, decide who to keep and who to ship, and whether Nash stays or gets traded to chase a ring (should be his choice, in many ways). Team has young options and tons of cap space going forward.

 

[TBaslim]

Ugh - I posted my idea right before reading about the Shaq trade.

Kerr couldn't even get Ferry to throw in a future 1st rounder or Hickson? Chrimmy - he better have some more stuff planned after this salary dump.

And just think - if we had just kept Marion, we would have $21 million expiring this summer.

The Cavs owe us for DECADES if they win the title next year. We pay through the nose for Shaq, rehab him, miss the playoffs, and ship him to them for broken parts.

Wow.

 

[TBaslim]

Based on the Shaq trade, and the fact that Chandler was not brought back in a 3-way with NO, maybe one of the following goes down tomorrow:

1) Amare to Chicago for Tyrus/Noah/contract filler (Tim Thomas/James Jones,etc) and maybe #16.

2) Amare to Golden State for Biedrens/filler/#7 in 09 draft/maybe future picks or another young player (Wright?).


Either way, Amare goes for a young, mobile, defensive center of the future (not a superstar, but a really good piece for a contending team 4-5 years from now), and either a serviceable/athletic young PF (Tyrus T or Jordan Hill) or a future PG option at #7.

And, if that goes down, I have to think the Suns have a deal to draft Mullins for OKC at #14 and trade after the draft for their 2010 pick back. If not, Kerr is nuts because you have no idea how good a team without Shaq and Amare will be next year.

Finally, all depending on what Nash wants, he either returns and runs like crazy with the new frontline or they trade him to NY or Portland now.

If NY, they do the Golden State option for Amare, get David Lee from NY, and take a future PG with #7. If Portland, they get back Sergio/Bayless/maybe Batum or Rudy and do either the GS trade with Jordan Hill at #7 or the Chicago trade.

Or I'm totally wrong and there is no method to this madness, and Sarver and Kerr screw up our team for the next 10 years. Sigh.

 

[Phill11]

Now that Shaq's gone here's another blowing it up proposal:

-Richardson, Barbosa and Tucker for Brooks, McGrady and 2010 1st Round Pick
-Nash for Mobley, Sene, 8th Pick Overall
-Wallace and 57th Pick and 2010 2nd Round Pick for Chandler, 2010 1st Round Pick (Back), 21st Pick Overall
-Cut Sasha, Sign Marion to a 3 year deal, let Hill walk to a contender
-Trade 8th Pick, Dudley, Lopez, future first round pick for top 5 pick to snag Rubio
-Sign a veteran like Bobby Jackson to fill in for McGrady



Draft Rubio(4th), Mullens (14th), Clark(21st) Pendergraph(48th)

Field this team:
PG- Rubio, Brooks, Dragic
SG- McGrady, Mobley
SF- Marion, Clark
PF- Amare, Amundson, Pendergraph
C- Chandler, Mullens, Sene

After this season we then have McGrady's expiring contract. If he get's healthy he could be trade bait. Amare blows up with an MVP kind of season knowing he's in a contract year. Trade him as well at the deadline. Then let the rebuilding process start.

 

[Phill11]

Another Scenario:

-Trade Amare and Dudley to GSW for Biedrins, Wright, Turiaf, Randolph and the 7th Pick
-Trade Nash, Turiaf, Lopez to NY for 8th Pick, Hughes, Sene
-Trade 8th Pick and 14th Pick to OK/MEM
-Trade Wallace, Barbosa for 21st Overall Pick, Chandler, Posey, future pick
-Package the 2 2nd round picks to move up and snag Pendergraph
-Draft Rubio (2nd), Harden(8th), 21st(Clark), Pendergraph(2nd rounder)

Run with:
Rubio/Dragic
Richardson/Harden
Hughes/Posey/Wright
Chandler/Pendergraph
Biedrins/Amundson

2009-2010 season's over so find a way to get a hold of our 2010 pick...

I'd really like to see the Suns snag Rubio/Pendergraph in the draft, cut salary and begin obtaining picks to rebuild.

 

[HooverDam]

Thread necromancy time. The Suns have dropped 4 in a row, and lost like 15 or their last 25 or something like that. Its clear this team is going nowhere fast and with young, up and coming teams like Sacramento, OKC, Memphis and perhaps eventually Minnesota and the Clippers all in the West its important to start building a bridge to tomorrow (something the Suns have utterly failed to do to this point).

Here's some ideas I'd like to see pursued:

Deal #1:

Phx sends:
Jason Richardson

Miami sends:

Udonis Haslem (expiring)
Quentin Richardson (expiring)
lower of their 2010 1st rounders

This gives the Heat another scorer to compliment Wade & Beasley. You'd have to play JRich slightly out of position at the 3 but thats not too big of a deal in my estimation since he and Wade both rebound decently for 2 guards and JRich is a good post up player for a guard. It also shows Wade that you're trying to win with him but at the same time doesn't tie you up in a really long awful contract.

The Suns get 2 deals that expire after this year and the lower of either Miami's pick or the one they got from Toronto in the O'Neal deal. This helps them build for the future.

Deal #2:


Phx Sends:

Amar'e Stoudemire
Robin Lopez

OKC sends:

Jeff Green
Nick Collison
Etan Thomas (expiring)
DJ White
Phx's 2010 1st rounder

OKC needs an interior player whos athletic and can run the floor, Amare fits the bill perfectly. He could play the 4 or 5 for them depending on who else they get down the road. Adding Amare pushes them almost assuredly into the playoffs this year and clears up their weird log jam at the 3 with Green and Durant.

Phx has to send Lopez to help make up for OKCs loss in the front court of 3 guys. It would be nice if Collisons deal was expiring but as it is, its not too bad. I'd prefer they got Serge Ibaka over White but I think thats likely asking too much. Obviously this deal doesn't work if Amare says he won't sign an extension there, but who knows maybe he'd love playing with Durant, Westbrook & Harden.

Suns get their own 1st rounder back so that when they go in the toilet after blowing it up they can hopefully get someone good. Though OKC may not go for that and force the Suns to take the lower of the two 1st rounders, in which case Id likely still do the deal.

Deal #3:
Phx sends:
Steve Nash
Grant Hill
Taylor Griffin

NY sends:
Eddy Curry (expiring)
Jordan Hill
Chris Duhon (expiring)
2010 2nd rounder
2012 1st rounder (unprotected)

NY doesn't have their own 2010 1st rounder and the Suns wouldn't want 3 picks in the 1st round of one draft anyway most likely. Since NY can't trade picks in consecutive years they take NYs 2012 pick, helping them down the road. NY likely doesn't care because this point they've paired LeBron with Nash and D'Antoni and are destroying universes.

I tossed Grant Hill in there because 1. D'Antoni loves him, 2. It would be pretty crappy to blow the team up after he resigned and decided to stay here. He could sign a cheap deal next year with the Knicks and be one of like 5 future Hall of Famers on that team or whatever. Plus with Hill perhaps resigned and Nash the Knicks have more than just D'Antoni and NYC itself to sell to LeBron and whoever.

The Suns get more expiring contracts and Jordan Hill which helps them sell jerseys south of the I-8 and he can likely be a nice player down the road.

So the rest of the year the Suns roster would be an abysmal:

C Frye*/Curry*/Thomas*/Collins*
PF Haslem*/Collison/J. Hill/Amundson*/DJ White*
SF Green/Dudley/Clark
SG Barbosa/Q. Richardson*
PG Duhon*/Dragic

*= deal expires after this season is up.

And off to lottery land we'd go. Two picks in the 1st round, hopefully one of the Suns own in the lottery and a couple of nice young pieces for the future (Green, Clark, LB, J. Hill). Im trying to be as realistic as possible with these deals keeping in mind other teams needs and the actual value of the players the Suns have. If the Suns could get their own pick back heck maybe they'd get lucky and finally win the lottery and thus the John Wall sweepstakes and keep their string of amazing PGs going.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

I'd LOVE a blow up like that. I'd even rather send out Barbs in lieu of Lopez, but I wouldn't make that a sticking point. Keeping Dragic, Dudley and Clark is important to me. Adding Hill and Green is huge, but even with them I'd rather get draft picks. Bur I'd sign on for this as youy have it....

 

[slinslin]

That is too much to send to Oklahoma, Green is a tweener and will take playing time from Clark and Dudley, we don't need him. Better remove him and Lopez and throw in Oklahomas own pick.
And Harpring's expiring instead of Collison.

I like that New York trade, maybe milk a future pick out of them too.

Would definately prefer trading Barbosa and JRich for TMac and Houston's pick over the Miami trade.

 

[The Commish]

Would definately prefer trading Barbosa and JRich for TMac and Houston's pick over the Miami trade.

+1

 

[HooverDam]

That is too much to send to Oklahoma, Green is a tweener and will take playing time from Clark and Dudley, we don't need him. Better remove him and Lopez and throw in Oklahomas own pick.
And Harpring's expiring instead of Collison.

Jeff Green is vastly better than either Earl Clark or Jared Dudley he wouldnt be "taking minutes" from either of them. He can play the 3 or the 4 which is an asset, not a liability like you've listed. Dudleys a nice player but he's a bench guy, a dirt working hustle player, not someone you want playing 30 minutes a game.

Clarks got a ways to go before he's earning starter type minutes even on a bad team and Greens only under contract through next year so if Clark somehow quickly blossoms and you have too much at the 3 you can move someone.

I like that New York trade, maybe milk a future pick out of them too.

I already have the Suns getting their 2012 1st rounder.

Would definately prefer trading Barbosa and JRich for TMac and Houston's pick over the Miami trade.

Uh....why? You want to lose LB whos a terrific player on a reasonable contract for what reason? Youre going to move him within conference and make them better plus likely get a worse pick. Also Miami has 2 first rounders thus they'd be more willing to move one of them.

 

[mojorizen7]

Where do i sign up for any of these proposals?
I want to desperately become interested in my favorite basketball team again.

BTW, I prefer the NY trade over the others.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

For me, the bottom line is that we get rid of EVERYBODY except Dragic, Dudley and Clark. I would prefer to also hang on to Lopez, but he is secondary to the primary list. Any deals in this thread that accomplishes this, I am all for. This team needs an historic blow up.

To further the discussion, what coaches might we target in these scenarios? I'd love a Larry Brown type, but of a younger variety. Any thoughts on that?

 

[asudevil83]

Curry isnt Expring BTW....he has a $11mil player option for next season. so NY would most likely have to throw in something of considerable value.

 

[HooverDam]

For me, the bottom line is that we get rid of EVERYBODY except Dragic, Dudley and Clark. I would prefer to also hang on to Lopez, but he is secondary to the primary list. Any deals in this thread that accomplishes this, I am all for. This team needs an historic blow up.

To further the discussion, what coaches might we target in these scenarios? I'd love a Larry Brown type, but of a younger variety. Any thoughts on that?

Why wouldn't you add LB to that list? He's youngish, cheap and quite good. I wouldn't want anything to do with a Larry Brown type, he'd be the last thing you want with a young team as he hates young players. I have no problem with Gentry remaining the coach for the foreseeable future.

Curry isnt Expring BTW....he has a $11mil player option for next season. so NY would most likely have to throw in something of considerable value.

Ah I didn't realize that. You could just switch Al Harrington out for Curry then and the deal still works and Als contract actually is a true expiring deal. Or if the Suns would take Currys extra year perhaps they'd be able to get Galinari back in the deal but I doubt it since I think D'Antoni really likes that kid.

 

[overseascardfan]

Thread necromancy time. The Suns have dropped 4 in a row, and lost like 15 or their last 25 or something like that. Its clear this team is going nowhere fast and with young, up and coming teams like Sacramento, OKC, Memphis and perhaps eventually Minnesota and the Clippers all in the West its important to start building a bridge to tomorrow (something the Suns have utterly failed to do to this point).

Here's some ideas I'd like to see pursued:

Deal #1:

Phx sends:
Jason Richardson

Miami sends:

Udonis Haslem (expiring)
Quentin Richardson (expiring)
lower of their 2010 1st rounders

This gives the Heat another scorer to compliment Wade & Beasley. You'd have to play JRich slightly out of position at the 3 but thats not too big of a deal in my estimation since he and Wade both rebound decently for 2 guards and JRich is a good post up player for a guard. It also shows Wade that you're trying to win with him but at the same time doesn't tie you up in a really long awful contract.

The Suns get 2 deals that expire after this year and the lower of either Miami's pick or the one they got from Toronto in the O'Neal deal. This helps them build for the future.

Deal #2:


Phx Sends:

Amar'e Stoudemire
Robin Lopez

OKC sends:

Jeff Green
Nick Collison
Etan Thomas (expiring)
DJ White
Phx's 2010 1st rounder

OKC needs an interior player whos athletic and can run the floor, Amare fits the bill perfectly. He could play the 4 or 5 for them depending on who else they get down the road. Adding Amare pushes them almost assuredly into the playoffs this year and clears up their weird log jam at the 3 with Green and Durant.

Phx has to send Lopez to help make up for OKCs loss in the front court of 3 guys. It would be nice if Collisons deal was expiring but as it is, its not too bad. I'd prefer they got Serge Ibaka over White but I think thats likely asking too much. Obviously this deal doesn't work if Amare says he won't sign an extension there, but who knows maybe he'd love playing with Durant, Westbrook & Harden.

Suns get their own 1st rounder back so that when they go in the toilet after blowing it up they can hopefully get someone good. Though OKC may not go for that and force the Suns to take the lower of the two 1st rounders, in which case Id likely still do the deal.

Deal #3:
Phx sends:
Steve Nash
Grant Hill
Taylor Griffin

NY sends:
Eddy Curry (expiring)
Jordan Hill
Chris Duhon (expiring)
2010 2nd rounder
2012 1st rounder (unprotected)

NY doesn't have their own 2010 1st rounder and the Suns wouldn't want 3 picks in the 1st round of one draft anyway most likely. Since NY can't trade picks in consecutive years they take NYs 2012 pick, helping them down the road. NY likely doesn't care because this point they've paired LeBron with Nash and D'Antoni and are destroying universes.

I tossed Grant Hill in there because 1. D'Antoni loves him, 2. It would be pretty crappy to blow the team up after he resigned and decided to stay here. He could sign a cheap deal next year with the Knicks and be one of like 5 future Hall of Famers on that team or whatever. Plus with Hill perhaps resigned and Nash the Knicks have more than just D'Antoni and NYC itself to sell to LeBron and whoever.

The Suns get more expiring contracts and Jordan Hill which helps them sell jerseys south of the I-8 and he can likely be a nice player down the road.

So the rest of the year the Suns roster would be an abysmal:

C Frye*/Curry*/Thomas*/Collins*
PF Haslem*/Collison/J. Hill/Amundson*/DJ White*
SF Green/Dudley/Clark
SG Barbosa/Q. Richardson*
PG Duhon*/Dragic

*= deal expires after this season is up.

And off to lottery land we'd go. Two picks in the 1st round, hopefully one of the Suns own in the lottery and a couple of nice young pieces for the future (Green, Clark, LB, J. Hill). Im trying to be as realistic as possible with these deals keeping in mind other teams needs and the actual value of the players the Suns have. If the Suns could get their own pick back heck maybe they'd get lucky and finally win the lottery and thus the John Wall sweepstakes and keep their string of amazing PGs going.

Instead of Curry or Harrington, why not get a re-signed David Lee for around $10M. There aren't a lot of FA bigs this summer and $10M a year for what Lee brings to the table is worth it.

 

[elindholm]

For me, the bottom line is that we get rid of EVERYBODY except Dragic, Dudley and Clark.

Just out of curiosity, why would you rather dump Lopez, who has had a few good games, over Clark, who has had zero? The same inept front office took them at almost the same spots in two consecutive drafts (Lopez #15 in 2008, Clark #14 in 2009), so is there any reason to assume that Clark is intrinsically more talented? Lopez is even a few months younger. I'm not high on Lopez at all, but at least he has shown something.

 

[mojorizen7]

Why wouldn't you add LB to that list? He's youngish, cheap and quite good. I wouldn't want anything to do with a Larry Brown type, he'd be the last thing you want with a young team as he hates young players. I have no problem with Gentry remaining the coach for the foreseeable future. .

I would like to comment that I too would like to keep Barbosa if possible.
Also, as far as a HC, I wouldn't be against keeping Gentry as long as the plan isn't to just blow it up and start building the exact same type of team again(built to shoot jumpers and run....whilst playing little to zero "D.").

 

[Divide Et Impera]

Just out of curiosity, why would you rather dump Lopez, who has had a few good games, over Clark, who has had zero? The same inept front office took them at almost the same spots in two consecutive drafts (Lopez #15 in 2008, Clark #14 in 2009), so is there any reason to assume that Clark is intrinsically more talented? Lopez is even a few months younger. I'm not high on Lopez at all, but at least he has shown something.

Strictly due to the comparative value we could theoretically get in return. Clark nets us nothing in a trade, but I LOVE the kid's potential anyways, so I want him around. Lopez lends the possibility of tipping the scales in a trade, which could ultimately be a net positive by moving him. Trust me, I want Lopez around too, but his value simply adds another dimension to the equation....

 

[HooverDam]

Just out of curiosity, why would you rather dump Lopez, who has had a few good games, over Clark, who has had zero?

Clark has vastly higher upside than Lopez. At best Lopez will be a backup Center on a good team his entire career, if he's starting games for you for a whole season, yikes (unless the rest of your roster is a bunch of studs). Clark has the potential in my estimation to actually be a nice NBA starter. Of course to judge Clark not halfway into one season is pretty silly, especially considering he's got more (and more talented) people playing ahead of him (Hill, Dudley) than Lopez did and does ahead of him (just Frye).

 

[cly2tw]

If they had to trade Amare, I'd hope he could team up with either Monta Ellis or Wade. Make it happen, Kerr!

 

[elindholm]

Clark has the potential in my estimation to actually be a nice NBA starter.

I'm just wondering what that's based on, besides college highlight reels and predraft scouting reports, neither of which is relevant. Surely you can't have such a high opinion of him based on what he's shown on an NBA court.

Of course to judge Clark not halfway into one season is pretty silly, especially considering he's got more (and more talented) people playing ahead of him

That isn't the reason he's not playing.

 

[devilalum]

I'm just wondering what that's based on, besides college highlight reels and predraft scouting reports, neither of which is relevant. Surely you can't have such a high opinion of him based on what he's shown on an NBA court.



That isn't the reason he's not playing.

Weren't you the one that wanted to cut Dragic this time last year?

 

[HooverDam]

I'm just wondering what that's based on, besides college highlight reels and predraft scouting reports, neither of which is relevant. Surely you can't have such a high opinion of him based on what he's shown on an NBA court.

Its based on watching him in college and being able to look at him and see that he's highly athletic and has a skill set that pertains to the game of basketball other than just being tall. Lopez is an unathletic, unskilled, slug and is the exact opposite of the type of player Id ever want on my team if I were a GM.

Also Id like to know how it is you have some magical inside knowledge as to why he hasn't played more. Sure he's got a Hall of Famer and a really good role player (possible 6th man of the year) playing his position ahead of him, but no- that can't have anything to do with it.

Lets give the guy more than 42 games (28 of which he's actually seen the floor in) in his rookie year before we right the guy off.

 

[elindholm]

Weren't you the one that wanted to cut Dragic this time last year?

Don't misunderstand. I haven't given up on Clark. My point is that, between Clark and Lopez, if you had to pick one, it should be Lopez. Showing a little is better than showing zilch.

And no, I never wanted to cut Dragic. I've also never had a problem with Kerr paying the price to get him. I don't think Dragic has a future as a PG -- his recent success has been playing off the ball -- but for what he is, he's doing fine.