Suns 2024-2025 Season Discussions

[Hoop Head]

No. Desperate flailing for a “superstar” is how we got ourselves into this mess.

Booker is not any of those guys, but neither is Tatum, neither is Mitchell.

We needed patience. Not gutting one of the best teams over the previous few years for a 35 year old cancer because he was supposedly a “number one guy”.

I really hate the obsession with “number one” “number two” guy nonsense. Build a good team with talented players who compliment each other.

Sure, like 4 teams have a mega superstar and it makes a clear pecking order. But if you are going to continually either tank for stars or gut your team for them you’re probably going to be terrible.

If Tatum were stuck on a stupid team like the kings (or us) he’d be viewed as a tweener who can’t get over the hump.

We were essentially a better version of the current Rockets. Booker may not be a generational talent but he's certainly someone you can lean on to produce when things get stagnant.

Ayton, Cam J, Mikal, Booker, CP3
Vs
Sengun, Jabari Smith, Dillon Brooks, Jalen Green, VanVleet

Sengun is better offensively while Ayton is better on defense. Jabari is a more traditional PF but a case could be made either way. Mikal is worlds better than Brooks. Booker is much better than Jalen Green. Paul was more productive than VanVleet.

Houston had more depth, which they've accumulated by drafting well. The Suns had some quality pieces. Primary difference between benches of both squads is Houston has a bunch of youngsters improving while the Suns had guys who had essentially peaked.

Houston is a squad built with patience and has also preferred continuity vs wildly swinging for the fences. You can see similar team building in OKC, Boston, and Cleveland. None of those teams looked at themselves and said their #1 wasn't good enough, they looked at #3-8 on their roster and built teams to accentuate their top 1 or 2 players talents. Golden State did the same thing years back, they didn't doubt Steph and they surrounded him players who could bring out the best in him while covering for what he couldn't do. It's a game of 5 on 5 and having the top individual talent doesn't matter much.

 

[taz02]

A championship is out of reach until we establish a superstar leader. Someone who can carry the team in big games.

Previous playoff series; Booker vs opponent’s best player:

Bucks- Gianas led all players in both PTS and TRB in 3 of the 6 games Booker lead all player in PTS in 2 of the 6 games. Phoenix lost game 6 by 7.

Dallas- Doncic led all players in PTS 5 of 7 games, TRB 5 of 7 games, and lead both categories 4 of 7. Booker led all players in PTS in two games, suns lost by 33 in game 7.

Denver- Jokic led all players in TRB in 5 of 6 games, PTS 4 of 6 games and led all players in both PTS and TRB in 3 of 6. By contrast Booker lead all players in PTS in one game, suns lost game 6 by 25.

Minnesota- Swept in 4 games, Booker lead all players in PTS in one game scoring 49 in the game 6 loss.

You need someone to carry the team in big high-pressure games. Having “that guy” doesn’t guarantee a championship but it improves your chances considerably.

 

[BirdGangThing]

we're beyond screwed - can't lean into it - but i was thinking last night and there's usually a team that limps into the playoffs that struggled all year and got hot right when it mattered

ive been watching the same basketball as yall - it's bad with no signs of improvement - it's the same couple few problems that surface night in night out - turnovers rebounds and going inexplicably cold from 3 - problem is they tend to coincide at the same time - we simply collapse

but (and you knew the but was coming) we did start out hot and we've looked better than decent at times - making it all the more infuriating - but we're a completely different team than what we started with

tyus can dribble it down court but we're at our best when we move the ball effectively as a team - but this requires 5 different suns to all take care of the ball at the same time - which never happens

they attack our passing lanes they go on fast breaks and we fall apart - time and time again so when are we going to start anticipating the blitz? when will we fake the dangerous pass and start cutting to the basket?

and rebounds - the one thing bud feels he can control (and bench players for) - why can't we go bigger at power forward more often? oso and bol bol can do this - if we don't have a "true" point guard on the floor wth not?

moral of the story is we are capable - idc what anyone says - and we haven't played anywhere near our best basketball yet - especially with richards still finding his way

i give the suns about a 25% chance of limping into the play-in as we stand heading into all star weekend - i only give us about a 10% chance of catching fire at the perfect time - ok maybe 5%

 

[AzStevenCal]

we're beyond screwed - can't lean into it - but i was thinking last night and there's usually a team that limps into the playoffs that struggled all year and got hot right when it mattered

ive been watching the same basketball as yall - it's bad with no signs of improvement - it's the same couple few problems that surface night in night out - turnovers rebounds and going inexplicably cold from 3 - problem is they tend to coincide at the same time - we simply collapse

but (and you knew the but was coming) we did start out hot and we've looked better than decent at times - making it all the more infuriating - but we're a completely different team than what we started with

tyus can dribble it down court but we're at our best when we move the ball effectively as a team - but this requires 5 different suns to all take care of the ball at the same time - which never happens

they attack our passing lanes they go on fast breaks and we fall apart - time and time again so when are we going to start anticipating the blitz? when will we fake the dangerous pass and start cutting to the basket?

and rebounds - the one thing bud feels he can control (and bench players for) - why can't we go bigger at power forward more often? oso and bol bol can do this - if we don't have a "true" point guard on the floor wth not?

moral of the story is we are capable - idc what anyone says - and we haven't played anywhere near our best basketball yet - especially with richards still finding his way

i give the suns about a 25% chance of limping into the play-in as we stand heading into all star weekend - i only give us about a 10% chance of catching fire at the perfect time - ok maybe 5%

I'm not very hopeful but I think there's an outside chance that this team could have a late season turnaround. But I think Beal and Dunn both need to return to full health for that to happen. I also think Bol Bol needs more court time even though I'm well aware he could fall flat on his face - we just don't have enough athleticism on this roster.

 

[GatorAZ]

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[BirdGangThing]

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better stop that - you're gonna go blind

 

[AzStevenCal]

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I'd love to have Mikal back but that's probably not the way to go, it would just be a retool doomed to fail IMO. We really have to rebuild, we have to recoup a full slate of future draft picks. Any big move we make that doesn't address our lack of draft picks is just reshuffling the deck chairs AFAIC. We need to build a full team, not just a roster loaded at the top and I don't see that happening without draft picks even if we only use them for trades every season.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'd love to have Mikal back but that's probably not the way to go, it would just be a retool doomed to fail IMO. We really have to rebuild, we have to recoup a full slate of future draft picks. Any big move we make that doesn't address our lack of draft picks is just reshuffling the deck chairs AFAIC. We need to build a full team, not just a roster loaded at the top and I don't see that happening without draft picks even if we only use them for trades every season.

Especially because a Booker/Mikal duo wouldn’t even come close to giving us a roster loaded up top. Those guys are second and third tier stars, who are already in their prime, neither are leaders.

That duo and the money needed to keep them together would have us a perennial 20-30 win club, still with no draft picks to get better.

 

[Mainstreet]

we're beyond screwed - can't lean into it - but i was thinking last night and there's usually a team that limps into the playoffs that struggled all year and got hot right when it mattered

ive been watching the same basketball as yall - it's bad with no signs of improvement - it's the same couple few problems that surface night in night out - turnovers rebounds and going inexplicably cold from 3 - problem is they tend to coincide at the same time - we simply collapse

but (and you knew the but was coming) we did start out hot and we've looked better than decent at times - making it all the more infuriating - but we're a completely different team than what we started with

tyus can dribble it down court but we're at our best when we move the ball effectively as a team - but this requires 5 different suns to all take care of the ball at the same time - which never happens

they attack our passing lanes they go on fast breaks and we fall apart - time and time again so when are we going to start anticipating the blitz? when will we fake the dangerous pass and start cutting to the basket?

and rebounds - the one thing bud feels he can control (and bench players for) - why can't we go bigger at power forward more often? oso and bol bol can do this - if we don't have a "true" point guard on the floor wth not?

moral of the story is we are capable - idc what anyone says - and we haven't played anywhere near our best basketball yet - especially with richards still finding his way

i give the suns about a 25% chance of limping into the play-in as we stand heading into all star weekend - i only give us about a 10% chance of catching fire at the perfect time - ok maybe 5%

I don't think the Suns are the team that limps into the playoffs. Really hope I'm wrong.

When I look at a team like the Mavericks, I see a team that should be in a state of collapse, yet they keep on winning. This is when I start to look at coaching.

Could the Suns have hired the wrong coach? Yes, absolutely. There is no rule where a team can't make two mistakes in a row.
Or perhaps Frank Vogel wasn't the problem. He coached the Suns to a 6th place finish in the West last season.

Make no mistake about it, though. There is something wrong with the Suns and the whole team needs to be rethought from the GM on down, especially the GM.

 

[GatorAZ]

better stop that - you're gonna go blind

.
Ignore me now cause I’m going hard on the trade machine for the next few months..

 

[Ronin]

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