Mythbusters 2019 - Come get me bro

[Solar7]

Again? I thought you wanted an emotionless, objective argument. I could inject concerns I have about leadership and dedication, but that’s not what you wanted.

The problem I have with Murray-Stans is that none of them will acknowledge his many outliers as potential risks and assume he’s a fail-same prospect. He may wind up being a good QB, but it comes with a high degree of risk. He’s not Andrew Luck. He’s not Peyton Manning. These guys were plug-and-play players, even though Peyton had a significant learning curve his first season.

If you’re comfortable burning the #1 pick on him, trading Rosen for pennies on the dollar, and letting your division rival get one of the best defensive prospects in the draft, by all means. But there’s a good chance that Rosen, Bosa and Williams will thrive elsewhere and that Murray doesn’t live up to his potential.

I barely need to write anything. Well said.

 

[thightower34]

Both QB’s will suck behind this terrible offensive line. They all have a history of getting injured except for Cole. And Keim’s awful at drafting o linemen. That’s why critics predict the Cardinals to have a worse record this year compared to last year.


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[Dr. Jones]

Again? I thought you wanted an emotionless, objective argument. I could inject concerns I have about leadership and dedication, but that’s not what you wanted.

The problem I have with Murray-Stans is that none of them will acknowledge his many outliers as potential risks and assume he’s a fail-same prospect. He may wind up being a good QB, but it comes with a high degree of risk. He’s not Andrew Luck. He’s not Peyton Manning. These guys were plug-and-play players, even though Peyton had a significant learning curve his first season.

If you’re comfortable burning the #1 pick on him, trading Rosen for pennies on the dollar, and letting your division rival get one of the best defensive prospects in the draft, by all means. But there’s a good chance that Rosen, Bosa and Williams will thrive elsewhere and that Murray doesn’t live up to his potential.

I can acknowledge the red flags, like height and weight.

I just also see an NFL that is evolving before our very eyes. Hitting QB's, pass interference, the way the rules are adjudicated, is all changing rapidly.

The future of the QB position is not immobile QB's. Pocket passers, yes..... But not Drew Bledsoe level mobility.

We have no clue what a trade for Rosen will earn. But it seems fool hearty to disclose your hand before the bet is made.

How can you say that there is a good chance for Bosa, Rosen, & Williams but not for Murray? Again, it sounds like your defending a personal preference rather than being practical.

What about Rosen's performance, in college or the Pro's gives you any indication he will be anything better than an Andy Dalton level QB?

 

[Dr. Jones]

I barely need to write anything. Well said.

Facepalm

 

[Solar7]

I can acknowledge the red flags, like height and weight.

I just also see an NFL that is evolving before our very eyes. Hitting QB's, pass interference, the way the rules are adjudicated, is all changing rapidly.

The future of the QB position is not immobile QB's. Pocket passers, yes..... But not Drew Bledsoe level mobility.

We have no clue what a trade for Rosen will earn. But it seems fool hearty to disclose your hand before the bet is made.

How can you say that there is a good chance for Bosa, Rosen, & Williams but not for Murray? Again, it sounds like your defending a personal preference rather than being practical.

What about Rosen's performance, in college or the Pro's gives you any indication he will be anything better than an Andy Dalton level QB?

Rosen doesn't have the wheels to run like he could play two-way at the position, but he can move well enough to get around in the pocket, or pick up some additional yards. I see the guy put some amazing throws on a rope into tight windows that I just honestly haven't seen Murray make.

I've seen Rosen command the field at UCLA for an amazing comeback... against Kliff Kingsbury's old team.

I'd still take Andy Dalton over RG3.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Rosen doesn't have the wheels to run like he could play two-way at the position, but he can move well enough to get around in the pocket, or pick up some additional yards. I see the guy put some amazing throws on a rope into tight windows that I just honestly haven't seen Murray make.

I've seen Rosen command the field at UCLA for an amazing comeback... against Kliff Kingsbury's team.

I'd still take Andy Dalton over RG3.

Rosen does make some WOW throws. I remember an incompletion to Kirk down the sideline in particular. The dude has the ability... there is no doubt.

He also has this unique ability to just throw balls into the dirt, or into the sky. He also seems to throw some inexplicable interceptions.

If you can't get to a 65 or 70% comp percentage, and reduce your turnovers drastically...... you cant succeed in the NFL. Rosen's comp% has been static for a few years now. And he has always had an INT problem.

Watch more tape regarding Kyler. That's my two cents about throws. Click the link to the video in my signature. Watch it objectively and tell me you don't see the future of the QB position in the NFL. He has work to do..... but damn man..... he's so far ahead of Rosen in almost every statistical way possible. + Arm. + pocket presence. + Mobility. + INT to TD ratio. + Accuracy. Throws from all platforms, running or firm in the pocket.

It's like night and day bro. Night and day.

 

[Krangodnzr]

If you’re comfortable burning the #1 pick on him, trading Rosen for pennies on the dollar, and letting your division rival get one of the best defensive prospects in the draft, by all means. But there’s a good chance that Rosen, Bosa and Williams will thrive elsewhere and that Murray doesn’t live up to his potential.

The Cardinals may have burned a 1st, 3rd, and 5th last year. Rosen was among the worst rookie QBs of the last 30 years or so.

The only thing that we have to go on with Rosen is that he was terrible last year. Murray played in an Air Raid system, in which he posted the highest QB rating ever. Murray has elite athleticism that has only be seen a few times in NFL history at the QB history. He might actually be the MOST athletic QB coming out ever.

And what a lot of you anti-Murray-anti-vaxxer-anti-climate change people are missing is that Murray isn't just a great athlete, his fundamentals as a QB are the best in this class and are better than a lot of NFL QBs. He understands on a very nuanced level that his feet affect his throws and he resets his feet very quickly to get a steady throwing base. This isn't something that is an athletics things, this is something that takes years of working at QBing to get right.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Watch more tape regarding Kyler. That's my two cents about throws. Click the link to the video in my signature. Watch it objectively and tell me you don't see the future of the QB position in the NFL. He has work to do..... but damn man..... he's so far ahead of Rosen in almost every statistical way possible. + Arm. + pocket presence. + Mobility. + INT to TD ratio. + Accuracy. Throws from all platforms, running or firm in the pocket.

It's like night and day bro. Night and day.

Yep, that's what I see. Compare Rosen to Murray, and Murray isn't just a significantly better athlete, he's a significantly better QB when you compare fundamentals.

 

[AZCrazy]

You guys are blaming the failure of the offense on Rosen. How much of that responsibility to you think he carries, really?

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

Like others I like all the energy this 'election' is producing, and it is still fun reading the more creative and humorous R vs M posts, yet at the same time I am getting a bit burned out from the extended high. But I am also burnt out from the exhausting less than mediocrity of the Cards and their past. In my deepest imagination I can't envision Rosen doing any better than making us competitively mediocre. I want and need more for my few remaining years. I don't care if Murray flops, give me that excitement and hope that will come with trying. Don't us fans deserve that effort after all these years. Let's at least shoot for the golden goose at least once before I'm gone. We have gotten a young creative coach, let's complete the plan by getting the remaining pieces of the puzzle. For heaven's sake, let's get all in, and win or lose, go for it all just once.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Like others I like all the energy this 'election' is producing, and it is still fun reading the more creative and humorous R vs M posts, yet at the same time I am getting a bit burned out from the extended high. But I am also burnt out from the exhausting less than mediocrity of the Cards and their past. In my deepest imagination I can't envision Rosen doing any better than making us competitively mediocre. I want and need more for my few remaining years. I don't care if Murray flops, give me that excitement and hope that will come with trying. Don't us fans deserve that effort after all these years. Let's at least shoot for the golden goose at least once before I'm gone. We have gotten a young creative coach, let's complete the plan by getting the remaining pieces of the puzzle. For heaven's sake, let's get all in, and win or lose, go for it all just once.

2008, 2016

Blame Aaron Fransisco, Darnell Dockett, or the No Fly Zone if you need to. Its not Rosen's problem those teams choked.

 

[BW52]

One report....from Charley Casserly....and it has been across the board discredited by everyone else and Charley looked like an idiot.

We live in a time of outliers @Chopper0080. The same arguments were made for Goff, Watson, Mahomes, Baker Mayfield and a few others. It's a poor argument because all of those outliers have proven the argument wrong.

What is the success rate for SEC QBs? It's fairly low.

Whats the success rate for short QBs?

 

[Chopper0080]

One report....from Charley Casserly....and it has been across the board discredited by everyone else and Charley looked like an idiot.

We live in a time of outliers @Chopper0080. The same arguments were made for Goff, Watson, Mahomes, Baker Mayfield and a few others. It's a poor argument because all of those outliers have proven the argument wrong.

What is the success rate for SEC QBs? It's fairly low.

Two reports, the other is from Albert Breer...https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/04/22/mock-draft-kyler-murray-arizona-cardinals-nick-bosa-dwayne-haskins

There were so many articles with negative insinuations that I got them mixed up.

 

[TJ]

The Cardinals may have burned a 1st, 3rd, and 5th last year. Rosen was among the worst rookie QBs of the last 30 years or so.

The only thing that we have to go on with Rosen is that he was terrible last year. Murray played in an Air Raid system, in which he posted the highest QB rating ever. Murray has elite athleticism that has only be seen a few times in NFL history at the QB history. He might actually be the MOST athletic QB coming out ever.

It's universally known that the offense last season hindered Rosen's growth. Bradford, a veteran, was on pace to have the worst season of his career. Had the offense been average, we likely don't see Rosen play any significant time because Bradford would've been successful enough to keep his job and potentially win some ball games. Overcoming barriers like having McCoy and then Leftwich as your OC in your first season in the league is just unfair. Leftwich was a freaking intern the year prior, FFS. how do you expect him to groom Rosen into anything more than a bottom feeder?

And what a lot of you anti-Murray-anti-vaxxer-anti-climate change people are missing is that Murray isn't just a great athlete, his fundamentals as a QB are the best in this class and are better than a lot of NFL QBs. He understands on a very nuanced level that his feet affect his throws and he resets his feet very quickly to get a steady throwing base. This isn't something that is an athletics things, this is something that takes years of working at QBing to get right.

Can you tangibly prove any of this? Because to me, he seems like a sandlot QB who may struggle playing within a system.

 

[Dr. Jones]

A really fun 7 minutes with two very good charts relating to how historic his season was, and how short he is.

So everyone should love it!

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[Jetstream Green]

All of these lazy ass arguments deserved a bit of curation. .

This thread: Where emotion goes to die. And perception is wrestled into submission with cold hard facts.

Dr. Jones... "you belong in a museum"

 

[Chris_Sanders]

A really fun 7 minutes with two very good charts relating to how historic his season was, and how short he is.

So everyone should love it!

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Great video

 

[Dr. Jones]

After the first 5 minutes of this video I realized all of the draft rumors were right.

Kyler is a jerk
He can’t lead a locker room.
His family is a bunch of controlling jerks.
We can’t draft him.

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[Dr. Jones]

People need to realize that this is not about Josh Rosen. I personally love the kid and think he can be a good to somewhat good NFL QBs for a long time.

The real question you need to ask yourself is this: Will we ever be in the position to have the opportunity to draft a generational type prospect again in our lifetime?

Opportunities like this..... the synergy of coach, scheme, and personnel are very rare and we have the opportunity to be at the very leading edge of this new offensive revolution happening right now in this new version of the NFL.

It’s right there...... will you grab it? I still have a bit of faith in Steve Keim, and I think he recognizes this key point in our franchises history. Having the balls to hire BA..... Having the balls to hire KK. And now he has a chance to draft another key chess piece.

He won’t back down. He has the balls to grab destiny by the throat.

Kyler Murray will be a Cardinal.


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[BW52]

People need to realize that this is not about Josh Rosen. I personally love the kid and think he can be a good to somewhat good NFL QBs for a long time.

The real question you need to ask yourself is this: Will we ever be in the position to have the opportunity to draft a generational type prospect again in our lifetime?

Opportunities like this..... the synergy of coach, scheme, and personnel are very rare and we have the opportunity to be at the very leading edge of this new offensive revolution happening right now in this new version of the NFL.

It’s right there...... will you grab it? I still have a bit of faith in Steve Keim, and I think he recognizes this key point in our franchises history. Having the balls to hire BA..... Having the balls to hire KK. And now he has a chance to draft another key chess piece.

He won’t back down. He has the balls to grab destiny by the throat.

Kyler Murray will be a Cardinal.


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once again pure hope and wild speculation with the generational crap.

 

[BurqueCardFan]

But....But....his dad....but...but...he's short....but...but...he's not a leader....but...but....

No criticisms of his actual play. This is classic overthink the prospect. If you turn on tape of every player from last year, Kyler Murray was the best player in college football. Best passer. Best runner. Best player.

Are you talking about Kyler, Tebow or Manziel? Sounds like same player. Key word is best in “college”. Doesn’t normally translate to pros.

 

[Jim Otis]

I not only , believe Murray can play QB in the NFL , I believe he will be a Star QB in the NFL !!!

 

[Krangodnzr]

Are you talking about Kyler, Tebow or Manziel? Sounds like same player. Key word is best in “college”. Doesn’t normally translate to pros.

You demonstrate significant ignorance on Murray by even comparing him to those two.

 

[BW52]

You demonstrate significant ignorance on Murray by even comparing him to those two.[/QUOTE






No other opinions valid but yours? Actually the Manziel comparison has some merit IMHO.Tebow I give you that one.

 

[Krangodnzr]

It's universally known that the offense last season hindered Rosen's growth. Bradford, a veteran, was on pace to have the worst season of his career. Had the offense been average, we likely don't see Rosen play any significant time because Bradford would've been successful enough to keep his job and potentially win some ball games. Overcoming barriers like having McCoy and then Leftwich as your OC in your first season in the league is just unfair. Leftwich was a freaking intern the year prior, FFS. how do you expect him to groom Rosen into anything more than a bottom feeder?




Can you tangibly prove any of this? Because to me, he seems like a sandlot QB who may struggle playing within a system.

It's universally known that the offense last season hindered Rosen's growth. Bradford, a veteran, was on pace to have the worst season of his career. Had the offense been average, we likely don't see Rosen play any significant time because Bradford would've been successful enough to keep his job and potentially win some ball games. Overcoming barriers like having McCoy and then Leftwich as your OC in your first season in the league is just unfair. Leftwich was a freaking intern the year prior, FFS. how do you expect him to groom Rosen into anything more than a bottom feeder?




Can you tangibly prove any of this? Because to me, he seems like a sandlot QB who may struggle playing within a system.

Sandlot QB? How cute!

Have you even watched him play? He made the vast majority of his plays from the pocket.

I held ignorant beliefs like this until I actually watched a few of his games and didnt just buy the anti-Murray scam.