Mythbusters 2019 - Come get me bro

[Delmar M Lewis]

One simple question is how will he handle bad snaps (the high ones) anyone ever thought of that will his short stature and arms be a hindrance

 

[azsouthendzone]

Wow. He was a great College QB. Doesn't mean squat in the NFL.

No, it sort of does.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Mahomes had a 22 on the Wonderlic..

That was a HUGE red flag.

 

[Dr. Jones]

If anything it is a pretty thread with great pictures

Hot take alert![emoji106][emoji106]

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[MadCardDisease]

No, it sort of does.

So when he has a clean pocket for 5 seconds and hits his WR deep who is 5 yards past his nearest defender that equates to the NFL how?

 

[Krangodnzr]

Mahomes had a 22 on the Wonderlic..

That was a HUGE red flag.

I remember shouting from the rooftops that Mahomes was the best player in that draft and hearing inane arguments from a bunch of people.

 

[BW52]

I remember shouting from the rooftops that Mahomes was the best player in that draft and hearing inane arguments from a bunch of people.

IIRC wasn`t the big argument against mahomes was that he was a "system' QB whose number were inflated because of said system.

 

[Shane]

I just like that you guys spend so much time on this and we’re not even going to draft him... lol

 

[azsouthendzone]

So when he has a clean pocket for 5 seconds and hits his WR deep who is 5 yards past his nearest defender that equates to the NFL how?

He hit guys deep, short, in the flat, really every possible pass and he did it well. But to clarify, you said that being a great college QB doesn't mean squat in the NFL and that is false. Most, if not all NFL QBs, were great in college.

 

[BW52]

I just like that you guys spend so much time on this and we’re not even going to draft him... lol

i hope you are right.I sure as hell don`t want him to be the pick.

 

[Chopper0080]

I got your 98th percentile right here...

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lol because "Big time throw %" is a historic mark for college QBs translating to the NFL.

Outlier historically for height among QBs.
Outlier historically for weight among QBs.
Outlier historically for games started in college among QBs.
Outlier historically for college offensive system among QBs.
Outlier historically for college conference among QBs.

and that isn't even going into the concerns about his work ethic and leadership and his poor execution for teams on the white board.

I didn't hear those about Andrew Luck.
I didn't hear those about Baker Mayfield. (his behavior was a different story)
I didn't hear those about Deshaun Watson.
I didn't hear those about Sam Darnold.
I didn't hear those about Patrick Mahomes.
I didn't hear those about Jared Goff.

Things get out for a reason and it is because they happen. Because they are true. If it was normal for teams to make up crap about players and their work ethic or leadership abilities, you would have heard it also about the guys above. You didn't.

You heard it about Blake Bortles and...it looks like it was true. You heard it about RGIII and it looks like it was true.

 

[Shane]

lol because "Big time throw %" is a historic mark for college QBs translating to the NFL.

Outlier historically for height among QBs.
Outlier historically for weight among QBs.
Outlier historically for games started in college among QBs.
Outlier historically for college offensive system among QBs.
Outlier historically for college conference among QBs.

and that isn't even going into the concerns about his work ethic and leadership and his poor execution for teams on the white board.

I didn't hear those about Andrew Luck.
I didn't hear those about Baker Mayfield. (his behavior was a different story)
I didn't hear those about Deshaun Watson.
I didn't hear those about Sam Darnold.
I didn't hear those about Patrick Mahomes.
I didn't hear those about Jared Goff.

Things get out for a reason and it is because they happen. Because they are true. If it was normal for teams to make up crap about players and their work ethic or leadership abilities, you would have heard it also about the guys above. You didn't.

You heard it about Blake Bortles and...it looks like it was true. You heard it about RGIII and it looks like it was true.

Game set and match

 

[Brian in Mesa]

But....But....his dad....but...but...he's short....but...but...he's not a leader....but...but....

No criticisms of his actual play. This is classic overthink the prospect. If you turn on tape of every player from last year, Kyler Murray was the best player in college football. Best passer. Best runner. Best player.

Props to him. Means jack squat at the next level. Check previous Heisman winners (especially QB's) as evidence.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

You can't handle the truth....

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Regarding snaps under center at 37%...Do you know how the 2 QB's in the SuperBowl did??? I know the answer...do you? Hint: It's way OVER 37%...and one of them led the league in snaps from under center. When a primarily shotgun QB and system starts routinely winning championships, call me.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Regarding snaps under center at 37%...Do you know how the 2 QB's in the SuperBowl did??? I know the answer...do you? Hint: It's way OVER 37%...and one of them led the league in snaps from under center. When a primarily shotgun QB and system starts routinely winning championships, call me.

Your arguing more against our new coaches offensive philosophy than KM. KK wants to play games from the shotgun.

 

[Shane]

Your arguing more against our new coaches offensive philosophy than KM. KK wants to play games from the shotgun.

Says who?

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Your arguing more against our new coaches offensive philosophy than KM. KK wants to play games from the shotgun.

Yup...I think it will be a fun game to watch, but I do not have Super Bowl expectations...We are going to be the Houston Oilers / San Diego Chargers of the past, today.



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[Dr. Jones]

lol because "Big time throw %" is a historic mark for college QBs translating to the NFL.

Outlier historically for height among QBs. True
Outlier historically for weight among QBs. I guess
Outlier historically for games started in college among QBs. Not at all. 67% comp percentage over 29 games played. 14 last season
Outlier historically for college offensive system among QBs. You mean.... New offenses produce new types players? I would agree there.
Outlier historically for college conference among QBs. totally disagree. Many QB's come from and came from the Big 12.

and that isn't even going into the concerns about his work ethic and leadership and his poor execution for teams on the white board. <-- Total conjecture Alert!

I didn't hear those about Andrew Luck.
I didn't hear those about Baker Mayfield. (his behavior was a different story)
I didn't hear those about Deshaun Watson.
I didn't hear those about Sam Darnold.
I didn't hear those about Patrick Mahomes.
I didn't hear those about Jared Goff.

Things get out for a reason and it is because they happen. Because they are true. If it was normal for teams to make up crap about players and their work ethic or leadership abilities, you would have heard it also about the guys above. You didn't.

You heard it about Blake Bortles and...it looks like it was true. You heard it about RGIII and it looks like it was true.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Says who?

Snaps under center? KK himself said he was going to play mostly out of the gun. His offenses were over 95% shotgun based. Listen to his Kingsbury Chronicals podcast from a few weeks back.

 

[Dr. Jones]

One year as a starter

Lowest Wonderlic score in the QB class

2nd percentile for height

Comparable stats to Tim Tebow in college

Had to be convinced by outside influences to play football instead of baseball

========

But, hey. Who cares about risk with the #1 pick?

These are the facts, Jack. You wanted an emotionless argument, I just presented it and you responded with a bunch of LMAOs and "jokes." Who's emotional here?

The fact that you're okay with the many red flags that come with Murray is your business. I've seen this story over and over again in the NFL. You fall in love with collegiate stats, athleticism, and potential, but then you get a Jamarcus Russell, a Matt Leinart, or a Tim Tebow, and your franchise is set back 5-10 years. Compound that with the fact that another QB was drafted top-10 last season and it makes it even more of a head scratcher.

OK TJ

He has comparable stats to Tebow. And Josh Rosen compares to John Skelton. this is all in the eyes of the beholder.
Tebow to Murray:
Air yards: 9.3 to 11.9 <- totally different offense.
QB Rating: 40 point difference.

Everything else can be considered somewhat similar if you squint a little, but damn. These were two totally different ways to play football. Murray had more yards rushing last year than Tebow had in his college career combined.

And the wonderlic argument is so specific. How about this: Lowest Wonderlic score of the QB's tested this year who may be a top 3 pick in this years draft. Still, wonderlic lists what an average score is..... and he hit it exactly.

Your arguments (and points) are shaped and worded very precisely to prove a point you are already committed to defend.

Look at it objectively and your house of cards falls flat IMO.

 

[Shane]

Snaps under center? KK himself said he was going to play mostly out of the gun. His offenses were over 95% shotgun based. Listen to his Kingsbury Chronicals podcast from a few weeks back.

I remember his specifically saying something to the effect that he can tailor it to his players into the NFL as needed... Never said it would be primarily shotgun that I read they hired the OC to creat an offense that’s more of a mix rather then straight air raid style... I don’t have enough time to sit and listen to podcasts...

 

[TJ]

OK TJ

He has comparable stats to Tebow. And Josh Rosen compares to John Skelton. this is all in the eyes of the beholder.
Tebow to Murray:
Air yards: 9.3 to 11.9 <- totally different offense.
QB Rating: 40 point difference.

Everything else can be considered somewhat similar if you squint a little, but damn. These were two totally different ways to play football. Murray had more yards rushing last year than Tebow had in his college career combined.

And the wonderlic argument is so specific. How about this: Lowest Wonderlic score of the QB's tested this year who may be a top 3 pick in this years draft. Still, wonderlic lists what an average score is..... and he hit it exactly.

Your arguments (and points) are shaped and worded very precisely to prove a point you are already committed to defend.

Look at it objectively and your house of cards falls flat IMO.

Again? I thought you wanted an emotionless, objective argument. I could inject concerns I have about leadership and dedication, but that’s not what you wanted.

The problem I have with Murray-Stans is that none of them will acknowledge his many outliers as potential risks and assume he’s a fail-same prospect. He may wind up being a good QB, but it comes with a high degree of risk. He’s not Andrew Luck. He’s not Peyton Manning. These guys were plug-and-play players, even though Peyton had a significant learning curve his first season.

If you’re comfortable burning the #1 pick on him, trading Rosen for pennies on the dollar, and letting your division rival get one of the best defensive prospects in the draft, by all means. But there’s a good chance that Rosen, Bosa and Williams will thrive elsewhere and that Murray doesn’t live up to his potential.

 

[MadCardDisease]

He hit guys deep, short, in the flat, really every possible pass and he did it well. But to clarify, you said that being a great college QB doesn't mean squat in the NFL and that is false. Most, if not all NFL QBs, were great in college.

True.

But many Great College QBs have failed in the NFL.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I remember his specifically saying something to the effect that he can tailor it to his players into the NFL as needed... Never said it would be primarily shotgun that I read they hired the OC to creat an offense that’s more of a mix rather then straight air raid style... I don’t have enough time to sit and listen to podcasts...

I do. I drive a lot for work. He was very clear that running, passing, etc will all be mostly from the gun. It's easier to see the defense, react, and adjust when there is less movement by the QB.

Not saying he wont at certain times, but he said it multiple times. We are going to see a lot of Shotgun this year.

 

[Krangodnzr]

lol because "Big time throw %" is a historic mark for college QBs translating to the NFL.

Outlier historically for height among QBs.
Outlier historically for weight among QBs.
Outlier historically for games started in college among QBs.
Outlier historically for college offensive system among QBs.
Outlier historically for college conference among QBs.

and that isn't even going into the concerns about his work ethic and leadership and his poor execution for teams on the white board.

I didn't hear those about Andrew Luck.
I didn't hear those about Baker Mayfield. (his behavior was a different story)
I didn't hear those about Deshaun Watson.
I didn't hear those about Sam Darnold.
I didn't hear those about Patrick Mahomes.
I didn't hear those about Jared Goff.

Things get out for a reason and it is because they happen. Because they are true. If it was normal for teams to make up crap about players and their work ethic or leadership abilities, you would have heard it also about the guys above. You didn't.

You heard it about Blake Bortles and...it looks like it was true. You heard it about RGIII and it looks like it was true.

One report....from Charley Casserly....and it has been across the board discredited by everyone else and Charley looked like an idiot.

We live in a time of outliers @Chopper0080. The same arguments were made for Goff, Watson, Mahomes, Baker Mayfield and a few others. It's a poor argument because all of those outliers have proven the argument wrong.

What is the success rate for SEC QBs? It's fairly low.