Nash and Defense

[redsox]

Hello,

I have been reading several posts from Dallas fans on the espn message boards about how they do not miss nash because he is awful at defense. They say Terry and Harris are better at defense and that Nash destroyed them on the defensive end of the court last year. They say the Mavs defense is a lot better this year.

I have not heard any Phoenix fans complain about Steve Nash's defense this year. So is his defense really that bad? Have opposing point guards scored a ton of points against Nash this year? This year Dallas and Phoenix are giving up about the same amount of points per game, but phoenix is scoring much more than Dallas. So what is the big deal? Steve's defense has not stood out to me as great, but I have not noticed horrible defense either.

 

[George O'Brien]

Nash has not been nearly as bad on defense as advertised. He does struggle to keep his man from beating him if the guy is really quick, but Nash seems to be fitting into the Suns scheme. In any case, the Suns are holding their opponents to 42.3% which is the same that the Mavs are doing.

BTW, welcome to the board.

 

[jibikao]

First of all, Nash is never considered a GOOD defender because:
1.) He is short, or he may have the height but he doesn't have the long arms and the athletic abilities to stay with the guy.

2.) Or maybe Nash wants to reserve more energy for offense since he runs so much.

3.) Mavs' defense was weak regardless if Nash was there or not. The whole system was kinda weird. They just lost an ugly game to Pistons tonight at home which pisses me off big time. I hate Pistons and I even hate the fact that Mavs lost a home game to an eastern team.

4.) Seems like most of the Suns' defense problem comes from rebounding which doesn't have a whole lot to do with Nash. I've been reading quite a lot and many suggested that Amare should block out more and Hunter should play more to secure the board.

5.) Nash has bad defense but he helped Suns a good 14-3 start.

6.) Mavs sacrificed too much offense for defense which doesn't help if they can't hit their freaking jumpers. I guess it's Nash's fault that he just LEFT Mavs. lol There wasn't even a trade so Mavs is in need of a great guard. Kidd? It will be interesting if Kidd goes back to his ORIGINAL TEAM just like Nash did. Maybe these two guys will make an interesting Returning To Home story this year and help their teams to playoff and maybe face each other in playoff. Wow!

Jimmy

 

[Goldfield]

Nash isnt a GOOD defender but he isnt that bad either. He does have a hard time keeping the guy in front of him but he is very smart about playing the passing lanes & creating charging fouls.

Also the Suns have alot better defenders & shot blockers inside so he doesnt hurt the suns as much.



The reason the Dallas fans see a big difference is because they have a guy like Dampier helping inside. Put Dirk with Damp & Nash together and it would of been a diff sotory...

 

[jibikao]

Nash isnt a GOOD defender but he isnt that bad either. He does have a hard time keeping the guy in front of him but he is very smart about playing the passing lanes & creating charging fouls.

Also the Suns have alot better defenders & shot blockers inside so he doesnt hurt the suns as much.



The reason the Dallas fans see a big difference is because they have a guy like Dampier helping inside. Put Dirk with Damp & Nash together and it would of been a diff sotory...

Well, that Mavs has better defense is an illusion really. I just checked. Here is the results:

Mavs
Point Per Game: 98.6
Point Per Game from Opponent: 95.6 <-----
(3 pt difference)

Suns
Point Per Game: 107.8
Point Per Game from Opponent: 95.9 <-----
(11.9 pt difference, probably the 2nd best in NBA besides Spurs' 12pt differential)


Now I feel soooooooooooo much better about Suns. Yeah, they probably don't have the best defense but at least they can really out score the other teams and still have somewhat good defense from small forward. Point Differential is probably the most important stats. You can score as much as you want but what does it matter if you can't stop the opponents from scoring? Mavs is in deep trouble now. They REALLY need big help if they want to compete in the playoff.

Jimmy

 

[slinslin]

http://www.82games.com/0405PHO5.HTM

This would indicate that other team's PGs are so far the smallest offensive factor against the Suns.

Teams are too busy attacking Shawn Marion at the 4 or whoever is playing out of position.

 

[jibikao]

Wow, nice chart!

I have to admit that I can't really read charts but that PER +9.5 on our guard position is great!

The opponent's PG PER is only 11.5 while Sun's PG is 21.0. That's almost double!

Our Shooting Guard is -0.8 and I wonder if that's because JJ and Q has been shooting too well?

Jimmy

 

[George O'Brien]

Before getting too carried away with those stats, remember the Suns have not played many games against the top shoot first point guards. McInness lit them up as did Cassell. Fortunately, most teams with high scoring PG's have defense oriented SG's to JJ gets the heavy lifting.

BTW, I never felt Marbury particularly good defensively. Marbury is a lot stronger than Nash, but Nash plays the passing lanes and takes charges.

 

[SweetD]

I don't think Nash is playing bad Def. I think it is Amare or Hunter are not stepping up on screens to pick up Nash's guy. For the most part he keeps the guards out of the middle of the key and that is the most important part.

 

[Skkorpion]

I think Nash is a horribly bad defender but still not as bad as Walter Davis was. Walter's idea of defense was to slap at the ball. He was so bad it was comical.

Ronnie Lee, Johnny High, Ricky Sobers, and Rex Chapman were good defenders. Paul Westphal wasn't bad. Dennis Johnson and JJ are the two best guard defenders we ever had.

 

[SweetD]

I think Nash is a horribly bad defender but still not as bad as Walter Davis was. Walter's idea of defense was to slap at the ball. He was so bad it was comical.

 

[Joe Mama]

I think Nash is a horribly bad defender but still not as bad as Walter Davis was. Walter's idea of defense was to slap at the ball. He was so bad it was comical.

Ronnie Lee, Johnny High, Ricky Sobers, and Rex Chapman were good defenders. Paul Westphal wasn't bad. Dennis Johnson and JJ are the two best guard defenders we ever had.

Steve Nash has been abused at times, but so far for the Suns I would say he hasn't been bad at all. The worst offender I can remember on the Phoenix Suns, at least off the top of my head, was Vinny Del Negro. It was actually kind of sad when he would play because as soon as he caught on the court the opposing team went right at him.

JJ is a great defender when he wants to be. Too often in his defense is like his offense where he lacks concentration and energy.

Joe Mama

 

[elindholm]

The worst (defender) I can remember on the Phoenix Suns, at least off the top of my head, was Vinny Del Negro.

No way. Penny Hardaway was the worst. He'd always watch the ball instead of his man (hoping to gamble on a steal), so he was always lost.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The worst (defender) I can remember on the Phoenix Suns, at least off the top of my head, was Vinny Del Negro.

No way. Penny Hardaway was the worst. He'd always watch the ball instead of his man (hoping to gamble on a steal), so he was always lost.

Sorry, Armon (later Armen) Gilliam was the worst defender ever to don a Suns uni. He didn't even try. He only rebounded in garbage time and a pass in to Armon's man was an automatic bucket.

His defense was so bad that, even though we had taken him with the second pick in the draft, Cotton traded him to Charlotte for an aging, injury prone Kurt Rambis.

By the way, you do remember that Joe Barry Carroll played for the Suns some. Talk about bad defenders.

 

[StatsAmare]

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[Gaddabout]

Ahem. Is Tommy Chambers going to escape criticism?

Steve Nash is a smart player. He plays the lanes and scouts well in attempt to slow down his opponent. Point guards that can shoot are going to shoot over him, but how many PGs like that are there? Not many. And the Suns surely aren't going to get beat on jumpshots. I don't understand the criticism coming out of Dallas.

 

[Joe Mama]

One anything I've noticed about Steve Nash is that he really doesn't like to get beat by the other team's point guard. If someone gets by him for an easy bucket or hits a good shot over him Nash will run right down the court on the ensuing possession and try to cram it down their throats. it says if he is saying, "if you are going to score on me I'm just going to score on you right back."

Joe Mama

 

[jibikao]

Ahem. Is Tommy Chambers going to escape criticism?

Steve Nash is a smart player. He plays the lanes and scouts well in attempt to slow down his opponent. Point guards that can shoot are going to shoot over him, but how many PGs like that are there? Not many. And the Suns surely aren't going to get beat on jumpshots. I don't understand the criticism coming out of Dallas.

Well, Dallas' defense system is (or was) a big mess. Starting from Nash....then Dirk...then Finely. The whole system wasn't built to favor defense if you ask me.

But yes, Nasy is a very smart player.

Jimmy

 

[George O'Brien]

My vote for worst defender was Cedric Ceballos. He was a fantastic offensive player, but such a liability that he couldn't get minutes on awful teams.

 

[sunsfn]

A quote by Charles Barkley and written by Joe Gilmartin a few years ago was,

The next person to score 100 points in an NBA game will be defended by
Armon Gilliam...........

 

[Errntknght]

I vote for Cedric... but Armon was pretty bad. Barkley was one of the laziest guys on defense though he could do it well when he made the effort - I think Charles did make the '50 Worst Defenders of All Time' list.

I have to disagree with Skkorp about Rex Chapman - at least late in his career he was terrible on defense. It was comical when he'd double Kidd's man - all he did was get in Kidd's way. I remember Jason waving him off a number of times - there was plenty of time to do that as Rex was the slowest doubler on the planet.

 

[F-Dog]

Ahh, the subtle gradiations of lousy defense!


First off, nobody can guard point guards. There are too many good ones, and they've got too many options, since the ball is always in their hands.

That said, I think there's a big difference between Nash and, say, Stephon Marbury on the defensive end. Marbury was a little like Sir Charles in that he could turn up his intensity in big possessions and shut down his man. That isn't going to happen with Nash--mostly because he doesn't have the size or athletic ability to compete, even against lower-tier PGs. For Nash, the only answer is to get it back on the other end, then wait for his guy to start missing.


On the other hand, Nash certainly isn't any worse than Sam Cassell, and if you asked a Wolves fan about Cassell's D, you'd probably get a blank stare in response. That's because they don't see Cassell's (lack of) defense as an insuperable obstacle to their team's success.