Nash Re-signs: 2 years, $22m

[Chaplin]

Right, but it never used to be the case that Suns fans had to say, "Our franchise is poorly run, but so are some others." They've always been an example of how to do things right, instead of falling victim to trends of incompetence.

Well, except for winning a title.

 

[elindholm]

Well, except for winning a title.

You're arguing with yourself.

 

[Chaplin]

You're arguing with yourself.

Huh? You said the Suns have been an example of doing things right, and I said except for winning the title. What's the big deal? I'm not arguing anything, just pointing out something. I'm certainly not saying we're a well-run organization right now.

An organization can be the best run in the world, but if it doesn't have a title to show for it, does it matter?

My "argument" is that we may be poorly run right now, but we aren't exclusive to that.

 

[Mainstreet]

An organization can be the best run in the world, but if it doesn't have a title to show for it, does it matter?

I think it matters a lot. Previously the Suns were a well run organization and they had a couple shots at Championship. IMO, it's always keeping yourself in a position to win it if everything goes right and of course getting the breaks. Let's face it the Suns have had some bad luck along the way for example by never having the first pick in the draft to grab a Kareem or a David Robinson. Also the Suns have been in a small budget market and many of those years they were trying to keep up with some of the bigger market teams.

Don't get me wrong, I want the Suns to win a Championship (probably more than most) but I give the Suns credit for previously having a well run franchise and the tradition of winning. I guess (until JC and BC left) I believed a Championship would eventually follow. Now it looks much more bleak.

 

[Chaplin]

I think it matters a lot. Previously the Suns were a well run organization and they had a couple shots at Championship. IMO, it's always keeping yourself in a position to win it if every goes right and of course getting the breaks. Let's face it the Suns have had some bad luck along the way for example by never having the first pick in the draft to grab a Kareem or a David Robinson. Also the Suns have been in a small budget market and many of those years they were trying to keep up with some of the bigger market teams.

Don't get me wrong, I want the Suns to win a Championship (probably more than most) but I give the Suns credit for previously having a well run franchise and the tradition of winning. I guess (until JC and BC left) I believed a Championship would eventually follow. Now it looks much more bleak.

Hindsight is 20/20. But I know back in the mid-90s, I hated that we came so close only to be denied by Chicago and Houston. Did I care that we were successful as a franchise up to that point? Hell no, I wanted a damn championship. After the sting disappears you can appreciate the way the team was for all those years, but how can a team be so good and have nothing to show for it?

 

[Mainstreet]

... but how can a team be so good and have nothing to show for it?

Now that you mention it, maybe the Suns went out of their way to recruit and keep players of good character. I think this mattered especially to JC after the drug scandal.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Did I care that we were successful as a franchise up to that point? Hell no, I wanted a damn championship. After the sting disappears you can appreciate the way the team was for all those years, but how can a team be so good and have nothing to show for it?

If your only acceptable end game for any year is a championship, there are going to many disappointing years. Mainstreet is right, of course there is a point, even if you don't win a championship. Even without winning a championship, the Suns were recently judged as the fifth most successful franchise of all time.

In addition, the Suns have always had some of the most exciting teams and an open running style that almost all basketball fans prefer. Sure, I'm disappointed that we've come so close, but beyond that, the Suns have been one of the best teams to follow.

As Bill Simmons says, "In other words, it didn't really matter that they never won a championship, just like it didn't matter that "Pulp Fiction" didn't win an Oscar, "The Wire" never won an Emmy and "Arrested Development" bombed in the ratings. We would always remember them fondly and feel like they were more successful than they actually were.

Followed by, "Maybe the Suns didn't win a championship, but we'll remember them 100 times more fondly than the brutally efficient and hopelessly bland Spurs, who taught everyone over the years that the regular season doesn't matter, transformed the NBA playoffs into a flopathon, revived the vile and fan-unfriendly Hack-A-Shaq strategy and did everything short of sending Bruce Bowen out on the court with a chainsaw and a taser. If the Spurs were the Team of the Decade, no wonder ratings dwindled until the league's big comeback this season. The real shame is that all the mugging, acting, eye-rolling, flopping, rule-bending and hysterical shrugging obscured what should have been remembered as a throwback sports team, a shrewdly assembled roster of well-coached guys who played beautifully together, didn't care about credit and revolved around the best power forward who ever played. Instead, we'll remember them as the team that turned the NBA playoffs into the World Cup. Congratulations, fellas.

The point is, this Suns team among many others have been really successful and almost equally entertaining, which is all you can ask for. It'll also make that eventual championship all the sweeter. (Once Sarver sells the team)

 

[Yuma]

Well, in the eighties with the Lakers and Celtics teams that dominated, no way the Suns were going to win then. Then the Bulls and Pistons went on runs. Again, no way the Suns were going to win. A lot of it was we had really good teams at bad times. Then in years we "could" have won, injuries, bad breaks, crooked referees, etc. always seemed to derail us, so we had that snake bit element, too. Plus, like mentioned before, we always seemed to be a coin flip or draft pick slot away from true greatness. In earlier years we always seemed to do better than what we were dealt with. A franchise that exceeded expectations for the most part. Now we seem to underachieve with the talent we have. Somewhere we crossed over from overachieve to underachieve, IMHO.

 

[BC867]

Well, in the eighties with the Lakers and Celtics teams that dominated, no way the Suns were going to win then. Then the Bulls and Pistons went on runs. Again, no way the Suns were going to win.

We all developed that point of view during their dynasties. But they developed their dynasties by combining players who covered all of the basic skills.

For example, Michael and Scotty had a rebounding, defensive monster, a pure shooter and a rotation of three legitimate Centers with them.

The Suns during their history have been pretty much one-dimensional.

In earlier years we always seemed to do better than what we were dealt with. A franchise that exceeded expectations for the most part. Now we seem to underachieve with the talent we have. Somewhere we crossed over from overachieve to underachieve, IMHO.

That's a good point. We were the best finesse team for years, but strength was required in the playoffs.

Last year we made a half-hearted attempt at becoming a power team, but abandoned it before the concept had a chance to jell.

So now it looks like we'll try to be the best finesse team again.

I guess the name Suns has taken on a new meaning. Lost in the solar system.

Even the Mercury, with their championship and successful start this year, are putting their big brothers to shame.

 

[Mainstreet]

We all developed that point of view during their dynasties. But they developed their dynasties by combining players who covered all of the basic skills.

For example, Michael and Scotty had a rebounding, defensive monster, a pure shooter and a rotation of three legitimate Centers with them.

Michael Jordan and Scotty Pippen can make role players look pretty good.

The Suns during their history have been pretty much one-dimensional.

If you mean the Suns have not had a quality protoype center in his prime this is true. I believe you would not count Alvin Adams, Mark West or Andrew Lang.

That's a good point. We were the best finesse team for years, but strength was required in the playoffs.

Last year we made a half-hearted attempt at becoming a power team, but abandoned it before the concept had a chance to jell.

So the Suns had the power (Shaq) this past season but could not make the playoffs. It didn't work out the previous season with Shaq either as the Suns couldn't make it out of the first round.

So now it looks like we'll try to be the best finesse team again.

Can you run out and get the Suns Gasol, Howard, Garnett or Duncan?

I guess the name Suns has taken on a new meaning. Lost in the solar system.

Maybe you should call Sarver and Kerr at Planet Orange to correct the problem.

Even the Mercury, with their championship and successful start this year, are putting their big brothers to shame.

I respect the WNBA and the Mercury but comparing the level of play to the NBA is off the wall. Are they a power team now?

 

[elindholm]

For example, Michael and Scotty had a rebounding, defensive monster, a pure shooter and a rotation of three legitimate Centers with them.

Wait a minute ... surely you aren't counting Luc Longley in that rotation of centers, because then you'd have to admit that the Suns had a real center. But Longley was the starter on three straight championship teams, wasn't he? I'm confused. How is it that the Bulls had the wisdom to embrace a real center, but the Suns were morons for getting the identical player the instant he became available?

 

[mojorizen7]

Wait a minute ... surely you aren't counting Luc Longley in that rotation of centers, because then you'd have to admit that the Suns had a real center. But Longley was the starter on three straight championship teams, wasn't he? I'm confused. How is it that the Bulls had the wisdom to embrace a real center, but the Suns were morons for getting the identical player the instant he became available?

I believe the strength of his intended point is "a rotation of 3 legit centers."
Not any single one of them individually. IIRC the BULLS were pretty effective in utilizing their alotted personal fouls among their "bigs."

 

[elindholm]

I believe the strength of his intended point is "a rotation of 3 legit centers."

I guess, but Longley played 30 minutes per game. He was the guy.

 

[mojorizen7]

I guess, but Longley played 30 minutes per game. He was the guy.

Longley played 30 min for the BULLS....really? I would have guessed around 20.

 

[TJ]

Didnt the bulls also have Will Purdue, Bill Cartwright and Bill Wennington at different times in their championship runs? None of which were necessarily effective offensively, but protected Jordan and Pippen and let them do their thing

 

[Brianellsworth]

This thread took a wild turn from steve Nash and a two year contract extension to now who knows what.

 

[Errntknght]

Here are Luc's stats for his stint with the Bulls - looks like he averaged about 24-25 min/game with them but he missed 20+ games per year

year team G GS Min FG FT OR DR TR Ast Stl Blk TO PF Pts
93-94 MIN 49 29 20.2 .464 .700 1.80 4.20 6.00 .9 .71 1.18 1.61 2.70 6.6
93-94 CHI 27 17 19.0 .483 .756 1.60 3.60 5.10 2.3 .37 .78 1.48 3.10 7.6
94-95 CHI 55 0 18.2 .447 .822 1.50 3.30 4.80 1.3 .44 .82 1.56 3.20 6.5
95-96 CHI 62 62 26.5 .482 .777 1.70 3.50 5.10 1.9 .35 1.35 1.84 3.60 9.1
96-97 CHI 59 59 24.9 .456 .792 2.10 3.60 5.60 2.4 .39 1.12 1.88 3.20 9.1
97-98 CHI 58 58 29.4 .455 .736 1.90 3.90 5.90 2.8 .59 1.07 2.24 3.60 11.4
98-99 PHO 39 39 23.9 .483 .776 1.50 4.20 5.70 1.2 .59 .54 1.36 3.10 8.7