Navarre starting next week

[Ryanwb]

Navarre needs to be named the starter for the remainder of the year regardless of how he plays this weekend. This QB shuffle needs to end.... King sucks, we all knew this (except for one guy on this board) when we saw him in training camp and pre-season. Josh's career is over in AZ period. Let Navarre show what he's got.... maybe he is our savior, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

 

[jstadvl]

Hadn't

we won 2 of 3 and 4 of 6 pre King? All I want is wins also and we were getting them.

 

[Paso Fino]

I agree that this is a good decision but I am concerned that people's expectations will be too high. As Eli's performance has demonstrated, even the best of rookies can take their lumps. We have to give the guy some starts to be able to show what he can do. The Cardinals are by no stretch of the imagination a playoff team. The fact that they even have a chance speaks to the poor calibre of play in the NFL West.

 

[Cheesebeef]

we won 2 of 3 and 4 of 6 pre King? All I want is wins also and we were getting them.

we were also getting Defensive Touchdowns, turnovers, safeties, blocked punts and multiple sacks. In the last two games we've gotten one turnover and two sacks total - but the offense has been UNBELIEVABLY BAD the last two games - even worse than it was with Josh. Personally, I hope your right about Navarre Dvl - it would be unbelievably nice to finally have a QB and not have to worry about that position going into next year's draft/FA.

I do know this - and I'm pretty sure of it - Josh and King will be GONZO after this year - thank God.

 

[conraddobler]

we were also getting Defensive Touchdowns, turnovers, safeties, blocked punts and multiple sacks. In the last two games we've gotten one turnover and two sacks total - but the offense has been UNBELIEVABLY BAD the last two games - even worse than it was with Josh. Personally, I hope your right about Navarre Dvl - it would be unbelievably nice to finally have a QB and not have to worry about that position going into next year's draft/FA.

I do know this - and I'm pretty sure of it - Josh and King will be GONZO after this year - thank God.

I know a little about Navarre, I watched him in college, I watched almost an entire special done on him detailing how bad a time he had at Michigan.

You wont find a smarter tougher kid, I just worry about him getting killed to be honest.

OMG I forgot he's starting in Michigan at the scene of his torment.

This is a reality show, it's the NFL's version of fear factor meets Survivor.

DG is flailing and starting behind a platooned O line, with a rookie RB and new WR that don't have years of experience. This is going to be interesting.

It's one thing to be Tom Brady and walk into an emergency situation where the team is solid around you and it's quite another to walk into this situation where blitzers come dangerously free and your backside protection allows one or two OLAY's per game.

I seriously fear for the kid. I like him as a QB and as a leader but some situations are just ripe for failure.

I like the premise and it grew on me over time because I think Navarre is the only QB who has the head and the talent to be a QB on the team, I still think QB's need more time to acclimate with both the team and the NFL. Most young QB's who do well their first year are on really solid teams. I wouldn't call this one anywhere near that on the offensive side of the ball.

Right now after I thought about the entire situation I think DG is nutz. This is nutz it's not like he has a base to work with he is asking a 7th round 3rd string pick to start under a rookie center with an all new oline with WR who don't read blitzes right with a rookie RB... OMG I'm amazed.

This is truly amazing and it's riveting, I just hope it dosen't end like the first few big Tyson fights. You know about 50 seconds in.

 

[Russ Smith]

Pittsburgh also was starting Amos Zeroue last year instead of Duce Staley. You cannot argue against the fact that Pitts is a much better team this year. I'm not arguing against Ben.He's been great but 10 other teams also passed on him.But you seem to want to write Navarre off before he has a chance and it sounds like you want him to fail to justify your saying we should've taken Ben. I'm not stupid enough to try and argue that Krenzel is as remotely as good as Ben but you were discounting his wins. We wouldn't even be having this discussion if the Cards would've listened to us and taken Lefty last year.

actually Pittsburgh was starting jerome bettis last year, 15 starts last year for them. He's got nearly as many yards this year as Staley does. yes they are better, and one of the bigger reasons why is QB. 66% and a rating of 98+ and as you said he's coming off his 2 worst games of the season.

Why does PREDICTING someone won't do well equal wanting him to fail?

Did I go accusing you of wanting Blake to fail? Did I accuse people of wanting King to fail? Condrad said over and over he thought he would, to my knowledge I never once said he wanted him too, he was right on King, I was wrong. What I'm saying is not new, there's a reason Josh was a 3rd round pick, there's a reason navarre was a 7th rounder, he MIGHT be good, odds are he won't. Based on what I saw of him in college, I'm PREDICTING he won't. just as I said I didn't think Josh would make it.

When I pimp a player there's a reason, that I believe that player is going to be good, and will help this team. I didn't predict failure for Josh because I disliked him or wanted him to fail because I wanted Ben, I predicted failure for him becuase of what i'd already seen of him and knew about his past, that was one of the KEY reasons I wanted Ben, I knew Josh wasn't going to be good for us as quickly as Ben would.

Navarre and Brady had entirely different careers, Brady had to fight for PT every year at Michigan, navarre had it handed to him when Henson stunned Carr and left early. Navarre started more games than any QB in Michigan history, it's not like he barely played in college and is some discovery of Green's. Brady got overlooked for reasons, Navarre was on display for over 40 starts in college.

Like I said there are reasons he lasted so long, I think in time he could be a solid backup, I just don't think that time is now, and neither did Green 2 weeks ago when he named King the starter, so what changed?

 

[conraddobler]

actually Pittsburgh was starting jerome bettis last year, 15 starts last year for them. He's got nearly as many yards this year as Staley does. yes they are better, and one of the bigger reasons why is QB. 66% and a rating of 98+ and as you said he's coming off his 2 worst games of the season.

Why does PREDICTING someone won't do well equal wanting him to fail?

Did I go accusing you of wanting Blake to fail? Did I accuse people of wanting King to fail? Condrad said over and over he thought he would, to my knowledge I never once said he wanted him too, he was right on King, I was wrong. What I'm saying is not new, there's a reason Josh was a 3rd round pick, there's a reason navarre was a 7th rounder, he MIGHT be good, odds are he won't. Based on what I saw of him in college, I'm PREDICTING he won't. just as I said I didn't think Josh would make it.

When I pimp a player there's a reason, that I believe that player is going to be good, and will help this team. I didn't predict failure for Josh because I disliked him or wanted him to fail because I wanted Ben, I predicted failure for him becuase of what i'd already seen of him and knew about his past, that was one of the KEY reasons I wanted Ben, I knew Josh wasn't going to be good for us as quickly as Ben would.

Navarre and Brady had entirely different careers, Brady had to fight for PT every year at Michigan, navarre had it handed to him when Henson stunned Carr and left early. Navarre started more games than any QB in Michigan history, it's not like he barely played in college and is some discovery of Green's. Brady got overlooked for reasons, Navarre was on display for over 40 starts in college.

Like I said there are reasons he lasted so long, I think in time he could be a solid backup, I just don't think that time is now, and neither did Green 2 weeks ago when he named King the starter, so what changed?

Russ the only possibility is that DG decided to dump Josh and needed to go through King to get to Navarre so people wouldn't think he was completely nutz.

That or he just snapped and is nutz.

Or truly a QB genius.... my bet is that he believes he's a genius and we are about to see he's closer to nutz.

See my above post detailing the ridiculousness of this situation.

I will say that if this works out you can take that worn out genius cliche and place it right on DG because I can't think of anything this amazing ever.

I don't know of a single situation where a new QB has had this thrust on him without both other QB's being hurt in the game.

When you look at the newness alone on the field it's just mind boggling.

 

[Russ Smith]

Russ the only possibility is that DG decided to dump Josh and needed to go through King to get to Navarre so people wouldn't think he was completely nutz.

That or he just snapped and is nutz.

Or truly a QB genius.... my bet is that he believes he's a genius and we are about to see he's closer to nutz.

See my above post detailing the ridiculousness of this situation.

I will say that if this works out you can take that worn out genius cliche and place it right on DG because I can't think of anything this amazing ever.

I don't know of a single situation where a new QB has had this thrust on him without both other QB's being hurt in the game.

When you look at the newness alone on the field it's just mind boggling.

Yep, and if the experiment does end in failure, what free agent in their right mind will want to sign here? You almost HAVE to overpay for a QB so that you can tell all the FA's you're talking to that you won't be picking Qb's out of a hat next year too.

I hope Navarre lights up Detroit, what I expect is something a lot closer to Stoney Cases' first, and only, start as a Cardinal.

 

[Bobcat]

Confused.

1) You told me not to judge Navarre until I see him play, one sentence after you judged him.

2) Seen him a lot in college, saw him against the Raiders in the preseason. Looked good throwing the ball underneath against a deep zone at the end of the game.

3) Eli Manning is 0-2 Rivers hasn't played, Ben is unbeaten, what other Qb's are you talking about? If you mean Krenzel, he had ZERO to do with them winning and got benched for Hutchinson today. He went 3-2 overall and had a 52.5 pass rating when he got benched.

4) I've been saying for months we should have picked Ben, you've been ripping me for months for saying it, now you're saying if I were in Pittsburgh I wouldn't be playing Ben? You do know he got his job by injury?

Why does this forum look up to me, we're all a bunch of guys writing about our favorite team with no actual input to the team, that makes no sense at all.

Guys who actually get paid to talk and write about football are laughing about this decision on national tv right now.

Listening and reading your comments is how a why Bush got re-elected. Dumb following dumber.

Let them laugh. Only John N. can make them all look like dumbies they really are.

I remember when people in Denver didn't want to go to the Super Bowl because they thought that John Elway sucked and couldn't win the big one.

And by the way Vince56 abd I were the first ones on this forum to say that we should draft Big Ben; not just you.

Bobcat.

 

[Russ Smith]

.

And by the way Vince56 abd I were the first ones on this forum to say that we should draft Big Ben; not just you.

Bobcat.

I never said I was the first, you implied if it were up to me he wouldn't be starting, which makes no sense since he's the guy I wanted us to draft specifically so we could start him.

Not sure what the rest of the stuff has to do with this so I won't comment on it.

 

[Bobcat]

I never said I was the first, you implied if it were up to me he wouldn't be starting, which makes no sense since he's the guy I wanted us to draft specifically so we could start him.

Not sure what the rest of the stuff has to do with this so I won't comment on it.

No not that you would have started him, but others who go to Cardinal games. They feel that third string means that you are not a very good player at QB.

Allan

 

[Russ Smith]

No not that you would have started him, but others who go to Cardinal games. They feel that third string means that you are not a very good player at QB.

Allan

I was talking about Ben Roethlisberger, it seems you're now talking about John Navarre.

I think you take a guy in round 7 and have him inactive the first 11 weeks, that implies you're not convinced he's ready to play yet. All of a sudden he's ready to start?

I think Green is tinkering, I don't see a pressing need to know what we have in Navarre. Worst case scenario is Navarre plays about as well as josh did last year the last 3 games and Green again passes on getting a QB.

Best case, he plays like Brady and we're all elated, which would beg the question why would a QB genius have a Brady clone on his scout team for 11 games before he recognized how good he was?

 

[pete]

I was talking about Ben Roethlisberger, it seems you're now talking about John Navarre.

I think you take a guy in round 7 and have him inactive the first 11 weeks, that implies you're not convinced he's ready to play yet. All of a sudden he's ready to start?

I think Green is tinkering, I don't see a pressing need to know what we have in Navarre. Worst case scenario is Navarre plays about as well as josh did last year the last 3 games and Green again passes on getting a QB.

Best case, he plays like Brady and we're all elated, which would beg the question why would a QB genius have a Brady clone on his scout team for 11 games before he recognized how good he was?

Now you are starting to sound like the local media Russ. Even if Navarre plays like Brady, you'll still be questioning Denny Green and his moves.

Maybe Green is being completely honest when he says that he thinks Navarre gives them the best chance to win. After watching King and McCown stink it up last Sunday, maybe he's right!

 

[Billy Flynt]

Just think, in 199 more games we'll be talking about Navarre's 200 start streak and the 3 SB Rings he has won for us.

 

[Russ Smith]

Now you are starting to sound like the local media Russ. Even if Navarre plays like Brady, you'll still be questioning Denny Green and his moves.

Maybe Green is being completely honest when he says that he thinks Navarre gives them the best chance to win. After watching King and McCown stink it up last Sunday, maybe he's right!

It's a fair question, if Navarre really is the best chance, what has he been doing on the scout team all year?

The same guy that badly misjudged Josh and King, is now telling us Navarre is the best guy, why in the world would I blindly believe that?

I could see blind belief in Josh because Green said so, he had the rep with Qb's to back it. But then it was King, that proved to be wrong, so now in my book he's 0-2 as QB genius so why would I just assume he's right now with Navarre?

The simple answer is we're 4-7, he spent the last 2 weeks convincing the team Josh isn't the guy, King is, King bombed, he doesn't want to now say just kidding guys Josh is still the guy. So he's starting Navarre and whatever happens let it happen. I just don't like someone giving me a piece of spam and telling me it's filet mignon.

 

[pete]

I just don't like someone giving me a piece of spam and telling me it's filet mignon.

Then how on earth can you stand to be a Cardinals fan? Its been spam for decades now!

 

[Assface]

Then how on earth can you stand to be a Cardinals fan? Its been spam for decades now!

 

[pete]

Actually, I was probably being too harsh on McCown. He couldn't get the ball to the WRs and that is why he is on the bench, but he did do some good things out there so he's a partial sucker. As for King, he completely sucked.

We can only hope the suckage stops this weekend.

 

[ActingWild]

I love it! It's not like we can do much worse with our quarterback play. However, I really like the move anyway.

McCown has not shown any type of grasp on being a starting QB. He's got all the physical skills but the mind is just not there right now. (ie, there is more than one receiver that you can throw to on each play).

King is almost as bad as Josh on this but has worse accuracy.

Navarre on the other hand, was the only QB I've seen on our squad that looked legitimate. Granted, it was preseason, but the kid had poise. He checked off receivers and when he found one that looked open he either zipped it in right on target (can you imagine if our receivers catch the ball in stride for once?) or he put it where only his receiver would grab it. He looks like a field general.

I know there will be concerns about his experience only coming in preseason, but he's been going over blitz schemes and packages al season in the film room and on the practice squad.

I'm going out on a limb here with Green, but this is the most excited I've been about a move in a long time!

Move over Big Ben, here comes Johnnny!

 

[JD Robertson]

Here's my 2cents.

When Mac was here everyone cried to find out what we had in McCown. He didn't until the last 3 games. Now he has had all of traing camp and 1/2 a season getting all the reps and the offense has not yet come together. King had his shot and well shot it. So if Navarre comes in and does well the rest of the season then we go into next year looking for a big time RB to make this thing go. If he doesn't do well then we know that and can look at a QB & RB in free agency and draft.

I for one am glad to see a coaching staff not be afraid of doing something out side of the box. If we win that cures all pains.

Go Big Red.

JD

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I don't know if Navarre is the answer but questioning why he sat for for 11 weeks is grasping at straws. Russ, you said yourself that you don't think there is anyway Navarre is ready so why would you have played him earlier.Maybe Navarre has not been ready in terms of grasping the offense and now Green feels more comfortable that he understands it. I see nothing wrong with this. Ben would not have been playing if Maddox didn't get hurt.In fact they siad that Ben is not a very good practice QB and actually plays better than he practices.The great Brady was also sitting on the bench until Bledsoe was hurt.I guess i just don't understand your agrument on this one.

 

[Chopper0080]

I agree that the move is surprising and has a high risk of failure. Navarre is a rookie and was taken in the second round so it would seem he lacks or is unpolished in many areas. But, one thing that has always been clear with Green is that he doesn't tolerate a lack of performance and this move is clearly due to a lack of performance in the passing game.

The only reason for this change that I can think of is that Navarre is or has become the most polished PASSER on this team. It may be that Green has seen our wide receivers running open down the field or in the flats and is tired of King and McCown missing them. With Navarre, Green must believe that he has a QB that will be able to make those throws when needed. I'm not sure that Navarre is the "best" QB all around, but by making this move it would seem that Green believes that he is the best passer among the group.

As far as the Detroit game goes, I think that Green feels that this is the best opportunity to see if Navarre has what it takes to be a backup or starter in this league. I don't think that either McCown or King will be on our team next year and so we need to see if we need a starter AND a backup, a starter and a thrid string QB, or two backups. We have a defense that should shut the Lions down and so production on offense needs to soley be adaquate. This should dictate McCown starting but apparently Green believes this to be the perfect arena for Navarre to prove his worth to the team. I think that we will run the ball a majority of the time, and MAYBE this will open up our receivers down the field. In Green's eyes, Navarre must be the best chance this team has of hitting those receivers.

 

[Chopper0080]

I said second round and meant seventh...sorry guys.

 

[Russ Smith]

I don't know if Navarre is the answer but questioning why he sat for for 11 weeks is grasping at straws. Russ, you said yourself that you don't think there is anyway Navarre is ready so why would you have played him earlier.Maybe Navarre has not been ready in terms of grasping the offense and now Green feels more comfortable that he understands it. I see nothing wrong with this. Ben would not have been playing if Maddox didn't get hurt.In fact they siad that Ben is not a very good practice QB and actually plays better than he practices.The great Brady was also sitting on the bench until Bledsoe was hurt.I guess i just don't understand your agrument on this one.

My point is if he really is the next Brady, and Green sees that, why was he #3 for 11 weeks? Green is starting him because he's reaching, well I thought Josh had it, he doesn't, I thought King did, he doesn't, might as well go with Navarre.

And he's doing it so he doesn't have to go back to Josh and hear all the second guessing on that.

Brady and Ben were both #2 QB's promoted due to injury. Navarre is #3, how often does that happen? Not very, and usually it's like with us and Jake, he was #3 behind Graham and Case, but he was a high pick obviously being groomed as the QB of the future.

Lex is the only one I know who thinks Navarre was drafted to be the QB of the future.

 

[Russ Smith]

I agree that the move is surprising and has a high risk of failure. Navarre is a rookie and was taken in the second round so it would seem he lacks or is unpolished in many areas. But, one thing that has always been clear with Green is that he doesn't tolerate a lack of performance and this move is clearly due to a lack of performance in the passing game.

The only reason for this change that I can think of is that Navarre is or has become the most polished PASSER on this team. It may be that Green has seen our wide receivers running open down the field or in the flats and is tired of King and McCown missing them. With Navarre, Green must believe that he has a QB that will be able to make those throws when needed. I'm not sure that Navarre is the "best" QB all around, but by making this move it would seem that Green believes that he is the best passer among the group.

As far as the Detroit game goes, I think that Green feels that this is the best opportunity to see if Navarre has what it takes to be a backup or starter in this league. I don't think that either McCown or King will be on our team next year and so we need to see if we need a starter AND a backup, a starter and a thrid string QB, or two backups. We have a defense that should shut the Lions down and so production on offense needs to soley be adaquate. This should dictate McCown starting but apparently Green believes this to be the perfect arena for Navarre to prove his worth to the team. I think that we will run the ball a majority of the time, and MAYBE this will open up our receivers down the field. In Green's eyes, Navarre must be the best chance this team has of hitting those receivers.

I kind of buy that except next week we play at home, against SF, currently the worst team in the entire NFL.

So if Green wanted a game where the opponent was really weak, to evaluate Navarre, why not next week?

he said he wanted him on the road because of the booing on Sunday of King, part of being an NFL QB is dealing with adversity, and Navarre is likely under more pressure in Michigan than he would be in Arizona so that part of his rationale doesn't hold water either.

If Green really thinks better to start him on the road, it makes sense, 2 home games back to back after Detroit, but I'm not sure why starting him on the road is supposed to be good for him.

What they hey, he's a QB guru he knows what he's doing.