NBA Finals Boston vs Dallas (poll)

[Lorenzo]

I christen this thread officially the Lorenzo thread.

I appreciate y'all putting up with my BS

 

[Lorenzo]

That article says no such thing. Again, it talks about his minutes being a concern and his ability to play more minutes than normal due to injury. That's not even close to what is being said about Luka. Nowhere can I find anything that says Nash is lazy and out of shape. I tried searching based on our comments and couldn't find anything like that.

I wasn't saying that Nash was lazy and out of shape. I don't think Luka is that either btw. I was pointing out that people attacked Nash's playoff fitness in regards to him wearing down physically and I agree with Stein's comments in that article when he says that was a theory. I was using it to point out that the narrative of Steve Nash wearing down was alive and well in his dallas days.

 

[Mainstreet]

Luka was looking really fit in the offseason. I think it was @Cheesebeef that posted the photo but I could be wrong. It was the leanest I have seen him ever. Now he looks like normal Luka like that all went out the door during the season which is strange.

During the NBA season, it's hard to see how a player can get out of shape with the frequency of games.

I, too, have seen Luka look really fit in photos prior to other seasons, but I don't see how he can take the pounding without the extra weight.

If Dallas likes him slim, I'm sure the Suns will gladly trade for him.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Beals not a 30pt/game scorer anymore but People’s takes about him here have become ridicukous in the other direction. “Barely starter material or more likely off the bench on a good team” - cmon. That’s ridiculous.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It was a national and local narrative when dallas got eliminated in the playoffs and Nash often got upstaged by the opposing team's backcourt, particularly Sacramento on 2 occasions. people were saying that Nash could not last a full season without wearing down physically. Cuban let that get to his head. Nash's best year in Dallas IMO was in 2003 when he played a full season with Van Excel. But cuban traded Van Excel away after that season and Nash would only play one more year in Dallas after getting bounced in the first round by Sacramento.

Here is a good article by one of the few ESPN writers that I used to consume back in those days. Marc Stein who covered dallas well. He was covering the topic in 2005 when dallas and phoenix had their first playoff showdown.

Stein: Sun wear

Steve Nash will get plenty of cheers in Dallas. He'll also get plenty of minutes.

www.espn.co.uk

Wearing down physically had nothing to do with his conditioning but more to do with his sleight frame and the beating he took. I know the mark on him was he wore down. I don’t ever recall anyone criticizing his fitness.

 

[Lorenzo]

Wearing down physically had nothing to do with his conditioning but more to do with his sleight frame and the beating he took. I know the mark on him was he wore down. I don’t ever recall anyone criticizing his fitness.

I agree with this. and I picked up the use of the term fitness to go hand in hand with a players health, not so much their conditioning, when I lived in England. I could probably use a better word. either way I never once thought Nash was any type of liability or wore down in his dallas days. My point is that it was a narrative because dallas lost in the playoffs to superior teams and people needed something to blame.

 

[Dback Jon]

What an ass kicking by Dallas

 

[GatorAZ]

I remember in dallas in the early 00's we had similar discussions about Nash's fitness. no one was saying Nash was too heavy, but people were always talking about him wearing down and getting targeted on defense by Sacramento or the spurs. it became a national narrative so much so that Nash started to become a scape goat in dallas. it was stupid. I wish dallas kept him and dirk together.

That was Mike Bibby who ate his lunch that series. Weird Dallas team as well with Antoine Walker and Antawn Jamison both having one random season with the Mavs after looking at the numbers that season.

Nash wasn’t Plan A for the Suns that summer but they thought he’d be a good fit for Amare after the Kobe & T-Mac thing never really transpired. Nobody saw MVP’s coming.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I appreciate y'all putting up with my BS

You’re a great member of the board. I love opposing fans who are knowledgeable and want to talk instead of argue and taunt.

 

[Lorenzo]

That was Mike Bibby who ate his lunch that series. Weird Dallas team as well with Antoine Walker and Antawn Jamison both having one random season with the Mavs after looking at the numbers that season.

Nash wasn’t Plan A for the Suns that summer but they thought he’d be a good fit for Amare after the Kobe & T-Mac thing never really transpired. Nobody saw MVP’s coming.

bobby Jackson as well. I did not foresee Nash winning MVPs, but I also could not imagine that Cuban would let Nash walk. I was crushed. The only consolation for me was that I got stationed at Luke AFB the same year that Nash went to Phoenix. and that's what led me to ASFN. I was furious when Phoenix eliminated dallas that next year, but there was a weird satisfying moment for Nash sticking it to Cuban and my attitude towards Cuban has really never been the same.

 

[Lorenzo]

What an ass kicking by Dallas

relieved that they didn't get swept. Boston definitely looked like they thought they won the game before it started. they were a no show.

 

[Russ Smith]

Eh… I’ve seen comments about Luka having already almost reached his ceiling since his rookie season.

He’s gotten better every year and is still only 25. This is the first time he’s really being hammered on a National scale. Still think it’s a toss-up if he can get more mature.

And the thing is at some point he's going to get in better shape and presumably that will help him

 

[Cheesebeef]

So, I guess Boston really wanted to win this thing at home, huh?

 

[Hoop Head]

That was Mike Bibby who ate his lunch that series. Weird Dallas team as well with Antoine Walker and Antawn Jamison both having one random season with the Mavs after looking at the numbers that season.

Nash wasn’t Plan A for the Suns that summer but they thought he’d be a good fit for Amare after the Kobe & T-Mac thing never really transpired. Nobody saw MVP’s coming.

Nash was Plan A, B, and C. The Suns brass flew to meet him shortly after midnight. Jerry and Bryan Colangelo, new owner Robert Sarver, D'Antoni, and a few others. The whole TMac/Kobe stuff was a smoke screen.

 

[Raindog]

You’re a great member of the board. I love opposing fans who are knowledgeable and want to talk instead of argue and taunt.

Indeed... Lorenzo and Russ are fans of "enemy" teams (well, I see them as enemy teams ), but good guys on the forum.

 

[GatorAZ]

Nash was Plan A, B, and C. The Suns brass flew to meet him shortly after midnight. Jerry and Bryan Colangelo, new owner Robert Sarver, D'Antoni, and a few others. The whole TMac/Kobe stuff was a smoke screen.

Plan A was Kobe but it became clear the Lakers were going to choose him over Shaq so the Suns moved on. They couldn’t “court” him because he re-signed with the Lakers before FA.

The Suns didn’t make T-Mac’s final list of trade teams IIRC.

 

[Hoop Head]

Plan A was Kobe but it became clear the Lakers were going to choose him over Shaq so the Suns moved on. They couldn’t “court” him because he re-signed with the Lakers before FA.

The Suns didn’t make T-Mac’s final list of trade teams IIRC.

Kobe was a free agent in 2004. He re-signed with the Lakers but after visiting other teams like the Clippers and Bulls.

 

[Covert Rain]

I wasn't saying that Nash was lazy and out of shape. I don't think Luka is that either btw. I was pointing out that people attacked Nash's playoff fitness in regards to him wearing down physically and I agree with Stein's comments in that article when he says that was a theory. I was using it to point out that the narrative of Steve Nash wearing down was alive and well in his dallas days.

Gotcha. I was only saying that the narratives were completely different and not alike. I think there is something to Luka being lazy defensively. I watched several occasions him not getting back on defense or only half assed running on rotations.

 

[Covert Rain]

During the NBA season, it's hard to see how a player can get out of shape with the frequency of games.

I, too, have seen Luka look really fit in photos prior to other seasons, but I don't see how he can take the pounding without the extra weight.

If Dallas likes him slim, I'm sure the Suns will gladly trade for him.

I don’t get it either but if you look at the photo posted preseason vs now? There is a difference.

 

[Phrazbit]

I don’t get it either but if you look at the photo posted preseason vs now? There is a difference.

I agree, and this has gone on for a few seasons running.

He and Harden are extremely similar. Their play styles are near mirror images, the foul baiting, the ball dominance, the inattentiveness to defense.

But in some wild way, Harden shows up fat to start the year, then plays his way into shape (and often would ultimately break down in the playoffs), while Luka shows up in better shape than the year before, but fattens up as the season goes on.

My guess would be the Harden spends the off season partying (that isn't even a guess, that is a fact at this point), while Luka takes it somewhat more seriously... but then Luka, a foreigner, comes back to the states for the season and... really enjoys our calorie laden cuisine?

It's gotta be diet.

Right?

 

[Mainstreet]

I don’t get it either but if you look at the photo posted preseason vs now? There is a difference.

Yes, there is a difference in photos. However, they don't always show physical fitness. Some players have different body types.

 

[CardNots]

I agree, and this has gone on for a few seasons running.

He and Harden are extremely similar. Their play styles are near mirror images, the foul baiting, the ball dominance, the inattentiveness to defense.

But in some wild way, Harden shows up fat to start the year, then plays his way into shape (and often would ultimately break down in the playoffs), while Luka shows up in better shape than the year before, but fattens up as the season goes on.

My guess would be the Harden spends the off season partying (that isn't even a guess, that is a fact at this point), while Luka takes it somewhat more seriously... but then Luka, a foreigner, comes back to the states for the season and... really enjoys our calorie laden cuisine?

It's gotta be diet.

Right?

It’s that damn chicken fried steak

 

[CardNots]

Gimpy, I see you "disagreed" with my comment that players should be allowed to laugh at referees. Please elaborate.

it’s simply unprofessional in a supposedly professional sport

Basically, not a good look…

 

[CardNots]

It was only as unprofessional as a referee seeking to use technical fouls for intimidation. Given the choice ...

 

[Hoop Head]

It was only as unprofessional as a referee seeking to use technical fouls for intimidation. Given the choice ...

No, it's not. If you laugh in your bosses face then you'd be reprimanded. Going further back, if you laughed in your teachers face at school then you'd be reprimanded as well.

Technical fouls aren't used as intimidation either. They're one of the only ways an official can reel in a player for being unprofessional or unsportsmanlike.

Saying technicals are used to intimidate players though is a bit ridiculous. That's akin to speeding tickets are used to intimidate you into following the speed limit.