NBA Finals Cleveland vs Golden State

[TJ]

LeBron is so limited as a scorer.

He's averaging 25 a game in these Finals, and is a "limited scorer?"

LeBron's issues in these finals are turnovers, not scoring.

Curry has been worthless for 2.5 games, including careless mistakes with the ball. The difference is that Curry's team actually has bench players of consequence and an excellent; whereas, Cleveland has two aging forwards on the bench with whom I had college courses and a coach learning on the fly.

The right lineup is to have Love come off the bench to add depth and not front load the lineup. GSW doesn't start its best five guys and is making an argument for being one of the best basketball teams ever.

 

[AzStevenCal]

He's averaging 25 a game in these Finals, and is a "limited scorer?"

LeBron's issues in these finals are turnovers, not scoring.

Curry has been worthless for 2.5 games, including careless mistakes with the ball. The difference is that Curry's team actually has bench players of consequence and an excellent; whereas, Cleveland has two aging forwards on the bench with whom I had college courses and a coach learning on the fly.

The right lineup is to have Love come off the bench to add depth and not front load the lineup. GSW doesn't start its best five guys and is making an argument for being one of the best basketball teams ever.

And what did he get late tonight, 6 points? When he should have been taking the 3 point shot instead of wasting time and taking it the hoop, settling for trading points? He surrendered the game and padded his stats, and it's not the first time I've seen him do it. But yeah, he can still score and do it all, just not quite at his highest level.

 

[SO91]

They run a boring iso offense. It was bad to watch 4 guys standing around while one guy drives to the basket hoping to make something happen. Also, if Green had done what Lebron did and knocked a guy down, then tried to step over him, everybody would be calling for a suspension.

 

[GatorAZ]

They run a boring iso offense. It was bad to watch 4 guys standing around while one guy drives to the basket hoping to make something happen. Also, if Green had done what Lebron did and knocked a guy down, then tried to step over him, everybody would be calling for a suspension.

I normally don't criticize coaching in the NBA but Lue seems like he's in over his head. Their possessions in the 4th were a trainwreck. They also allowed a lot of semi-open 3's to the Splash Bros which is unacceptable.

 

[sunsfan88]

He's averaging 25 a game in these Finals, and is a "limited scorer?"

And how many of those dud he score in garbage time?

He needs to be averaging 30+ pts per game in the playoffs and that too scoring throughout the game, not just scoring some garbage pts at the end.

Golden State is daring him to shoot the 3 and he can't because his shooting from 3 is atrocious. I can't imagine any defense ever guarding MJ or Kobe like this, you know, the two players that he's most compared to.

He was absolutely passive for most of the first half and much of the 3rd and Van Gundy & Mark Jackson both called him out on this repeatedly throughout the game too.

 

[Cheesebeef]

And what did he get late tonight, 6 points? When he should have been taking the 3 point shot instead of wasting time and taking it the hoop, settling for trading points? He surrendered the game and padded his stats, and it's not the first time I've seen him do it.

that was SUPER weak and completely transparent.

The guy was an ABSOLUTE, ALL-TIME BEAST pretty much his entire career up until this year, but I think it's pretty obvious his game is starting to slip. Again, he's still really freaking good... just think he's on the other side of his prime at this point. I mean, he should be completely fresh right now. They lolly-gagged through the season, breezed through the East and he just hasn't looked like the monster he was in previous post-seasons.

 

[Cheesebeef]

good to see Channing Frye turn back into Channing Frye when the chips are down... in other words, pretty worthless on both ends of the court.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I normally don't criticize coaching in the NBA but Lue seems like he's in over his head. Their possessions in the 4th were a trainwreck. They also allowed a lot of semi-open 3's to the Splash Bros which is unacceptable.

I'm not sure the offense was the result of "coaching" so much as player's returning to what they're used to doing when things aren't going well.

 

[TJ]

And how many of those dud he score in garbage time?



He needs to be averaging 30+ pts per game in the playoffs and that too scoring throughout the game, not just scoring some garbage pts at the end.



Golden State is daring him to shoot the 3 and he can't because his shooting from 3 is atrocious. I can't imagine any defense ever guarding MJ or Kobe like this, you know, the two players that he's most compared to.



He was absolutely passive for most of the first half and much of the 3rd and Van Gundy & Mark Jackson both called him out on this repeatedly throughout the game too.

And how did LeBron do averaging 30+ last season against GSW?

I mean this with respect, but this lemming take about him needing to be some colossal assassin from deep is ignorant. That goes double for Jackson and Van Gundy. He gets his points, he gets his rebounds, he gets his assists, and he gets his steals. When Kevin Love plays James Harden defense, the coach is drawing plays up with a stick, and the bench fails to show up, there's not a player in the world who could compensate for that, particularly against this season's GSW team.

Or, how about this concept? The team that just went 73-9 is playing like a team that just went 73-9.

 

[GatorAZ]

A good coach calls timeouts and at least runs a couple sets to get some good looks. Especially when the seasons on the line. Ultimately the players decide what happens though.

 

[nashman]

GS is just a better team and keeps their composure even when things were going against them. Lots of no calls so Kerr I think adjusted and had the Warriors start playing very physical in the second half, hey if your gonna let them do it we will also. Lebron throwing curry around trying to inbound late and then trash talking him lol, can't believe the refs let that go and the confrontation with green with no techs lol anyone else does that and getting T'd up! The true MVP showed up and got his team the win, anyone who doubts that steph was the mvp did not watch all season, maybe the best individual season by a player EVER!

 

[TJ]

And what did he get late tonight, 6 points? When he should have been taking the 3 point shot instead of wasting time and taking it the hoop, settling for trading points? He surrendered the game and padded his stats, and it's not the first time I've seen him do it. But yeah, he can still score and do it all, just not quite at his highest level.

If he's as bad of a jump shooter as people are purporting, then no, he shouldn't be shooting jump shots. He has guys like Love, Irving and Smith who can also hit from outside.

LeBron has certainly lost a step, I agree with that.

 

[Russ Smith]

Wow are the refs letting this game get TOUGH! Old school style baby!! Luv it!

I actually agree with Van Gundy it got ridiculous which is why LeBron and Draymond got into it. If the refs refuse to call any fouls to where players don't know what a foul is, it's inevitable you're going to have someone get pissed off.

Exciting game.

I also have to say, was it just me or was LeBron at the end kind of oddly stat stuffing with uncontested layups instead of actually trying to catch up by shooting 3's? He scored 25 but 8 of them were in the last minute plus when they were essentially conceding layups and then making the FT's. I guess someone has to shoot but seems like if you're actually trying to win you'd be shooting 3's/

 

[Russ Smith]

Green hits Lebron in the junk AGAIN. This guy has absolutely no shame.

I'm guessing it had something to do with LeBron throwing him toe the floor and stepping over him after hitting both Curry and Livingston in the face earlier.

Green is clearly a guy who takes it too far but LeBron might be the only guy in the league that could throw a guy down and then call him a bi&ch twice with the refs standing right there and not get a T.

 

[Russ Smith]

I know we're all supposed to prefer the more "physical" game of the playoffs, but this was the worst I ever remember seeing. There were multiple obvious fouls on practically every play, and the officials refused to call anything. It was like streetball without the honor system.

in hindsight me complaining about the no call at the end of the first half was pointless because the entire second half was no calls.

 

[Russ Smith]

And what did he get late tonight, 6 points? When he should have been taking the 3 point shot instead of wasting time and taking it the hoop, settling for trading points? He surrendered the game and padded his stats, and it's not the first time I've seen him do it. But yeah, he can still score and do it all, just not quite at his highest level.

Thank you Steve I just posted that without seeing your post first. That was really odd it actually really annoyed me.

 

[Russ Smith]

And how did LeBron do averaging 30+ last season against GSW?

I mean this with respect, but this lemming take about him needing to some colossal assassin from deep is ignorant. That goes double for Jackson and Van Gundy. He gets his points, he gets his rebounds, he gets his assists, and he gets his steals. When Kevin Love plays James Harden defense, the coach is drawing plays up with a stick, and the bench fails to show up, there's not a player in the world who could compensate for that, particularly against this season's GSW team.

Or, how about this concept? The team that just went 73-9 is playing like a team that just went 73-9.

I know the media will bring up the one game Love misses they win by 30 thing but tonight Love 25 minutes -5, Jefferson 25 minutes -5. They as a team played better defense in game 3, they were missing rotations and switches all night tonight. Curry and Klay both missed 2-3 wide open shots or the game would have blown open.

Love is a bad defender but Jefferson was a bigger issue tonight because he only scored 3 points so Lue had to take him off the court.

He's been great before tonight and Iggy has been huge for the Warriors, but tonight Jefferson was more of a weak link than Love.

Also 34 points but 28 shots and only 4 assists for Kyrie. Curry had 38 thanks to all the late FT's, 6 assists and who knows how many hockey assists where he made the pass that led to the assist.

 

[Russ Smith]

If he's as bad of a jump shooter as people are purporting, then no, he shouldn't be shooting jump shots. He has guys like Love, Irving and Smith who can also hit from outside.

LeBron has certainly lost a step, I agree with that.

Early in the game yes but at the end when the only chance to catch up is make 3's and hope they miss FT's, to continually go in and take layups is stat padding. Even the announcers called him for it

 

[AzStevenCal]

Thank you Steve I just posted that without seeing your post first. That was really odd it actually really annoyed me.

It was really strange too. I've never seen a player/team accept defeat that easily in a big game like this. I've seen James pad his stats before but I've never seen him just do it at the expense of competing. If it's because he'd simply lost confidence in his shot he should have been driving and kicking. But when you know the ball is going into the hands of great free throw shooters, you can't gain anything by scoring quickly.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Early in the game yes but at the end when the only chance to catch up is make 3's and hope they miss FT's, to continually go in and take layups is stat padding. Even the announcers called him for it

I thought they were a little cowardly there though. I'd started ranting about it the first time he scored quickly. But a couple times later I hear Van Gundy (I think it was him?) start to mention it and I turn to my wife about to say "see, it's so obvious even they're calling it" but then he just stopped and didn't really fill in the details (didn't even mention James). I'm sure some fans just thought he was talking about your typical garbage time stuff instead of what Lebron really did.

 

[Russ Smith]

It was really strange too. I've never seen a player/team accept defeat that easily in a big game like this. I've seen James pad his stats before but I've never seen him just do it at the expense of competing. If it's because he'd simply lost confidence in his shot he should have been driving and kicking. But when you know the ball is going into the hands of great free throw shooters, you can't gain anything by scoring quickly.

Yeah I made the comment elsewhere, all time great player but I can't imagine Jordan or Bird or Magic etc doing that but maybe they did and I never noticed.

I'm glad Van Gundy called him on it though I was saying it out loud and then he did too.

 

[Russ Smith]

I thought they were a little cowardly there though. I'd started ranting about it the first time he scored quickly. But a couple times later I hear Van Gundy (I think it was him?) start to mention it and I turn to my wife about to say "see, it's so obvious even they're calling it" but then he just stopped and didn't really fill in the details (didn't even mention James). I'm sure some fans just thought he was talking about your typical garbage time stuff instead of what Lebron really did.

True he didn't say LeBron but since he was the one doing it I think it was clear that's what he meant. But you are right he didn't say him by name.

I know he's not Reggie Miller but all you have to do is see that epic comeback against the Knicks by him and you realize you gotta at least try to win the game by shooting 3's.

 

[sunsfan88]

And how did LeBron do averaging 30+ last season against GSW?

I mean this with respect, but this lemming take about him needing to be some colossal assassin from deep is ignorant. That goes double for Jackson and Van Gundy. He gets his points, he gets his rebounds, he gets his assists, and he gets his steals. When Kevin Love plays James Harden defense, the coach is drawing plays up with a stick, and the bench fails to show up, there's not a player in the world who could compensate for that, particularly against this season's GSW team.

Or, how about this concept? The team that just went 73-9 is playing like a team that just went 73-9.

Don't make excuses for LeBron, he hand picked this team starting from the 15th player on the roster all the way to the head coach. Blatt helping lead the Cavs to within 2 games of a championship despite a depleted roster wasn't enough for LeBron so he went and fired Blatt and got Lue.

So don't for a second blame Love, Kyrie, Lue, coaching or the bench or whatever. Dan Gilbert is paying like a billion in luxury tax because LeBron picked exactly who he wants...maybe LeBron should have thought twice before forcing Gilbert into paying guys like Thompson and Shumpert so much damn money.

 

[TJ]

Don't make excuses for LeBron, he hand picked this team starting from the 15th player on the roster all the way to the head coach. Blatt helping lead the Cavs to within 2 games of a championship despite a depleted roster wasn't enough for LeBron so he went and fired Blatt and got Lue.

So don't for a second blame Love, Kyrie, Lue, coaching or the bench or whatever. Dan Gilbert is paying like a billion in luxury tax because LeBron picked exactly who he wants...maybe LeBron should have thought twice before forcing Gilbert into paying guys like Thompson and Shumpert so much damn money.

If Blatt is as good of a head coach as you think he is, then why didn't he get a second HC job in the states, when Jeff Hornacek was able to? Blatt would be as overmatched as Lue is in this series.

And yes, I'm going to point fingers at the other players and coaches because if you take your eyes off the #23 on Cleveland, you'll see a team around the player, including its coach, struggling to find answers. It's quite evident if you're looking at it through an objective lens. Anyone who faults one individual for a team's failure has an agenda, particularly faulting the one who's putting up close to a triple-double in each game. Yes, LeBron could do more in this series, but do you honestly think that if LeBron turns it up one notch that this series is any different? No, because Cleveland overall is at a significant disadvantage based on comparable talent and coaching. This was pretty obvious going into the finals, but people chose to ignore that and hyper-focus on LeBron James. 16 wins in the regular season separates these two teams. That's very significant.

Again, let's not forget that the Golden State Warriors went 73-9 during the regular season. The more people choose to focus on LeBron during the Finals, the more they discount the undeniable greatness of the team that's pummeling Cleveland.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If Blatt is as good of a head coach as you think he is, then why didn't he get a second HC job in the states, when Jeff Hornacek was able to? Blatt would be as overmatched as Lue is in this series.

And yes, I'm going to point fingers at the other players and coaches because if you take your eyes off the #23 on Cleveland, you'll see a team around the player, including its coach, struggling to find answers. It's quite evident if you're looking at it through an objective lens. Anyone who faults one individual for a team's failure has an agenda, particularly faulting the one who's putting up close to a triple-double in each game. Yes, LeBron could do more in this series, but do you honestly think that if LeBron turns it up one notch that this series is any different? No, because Cleveland overall is at a significant disadvantage based on comparable talent and coaching. This was pretty obvious going into the finals, but people chose to ignore that and hyper-focus on LeBron James. 16 wins in the regular season separates these two teams. That's very significant.

Again, let's not forget that the Golden State Warriors went 73-9 during the regular season. The more people choose to focus on LeBron during the Finals, the more they discount the undeniable greatness of the team that's pummeling Cleveland.

I agree with a lot of this, Lebron isn't the reason Cleveland is losing this series. He's not the player he was 2 years ago but he's still the best player on that team and the main reason they are in the finals. And the Warriors are far superior although I don't believe this Warriors team is quite the team they were in the regular season.

But I don't think your Hornacek/Blatt comment has any validity. Blatt has no real connection with the NBA unlike Jeff and it's still a good old boys network. It's who you know not what you know. Blatt will probably get another chance and Hornacek will likely get fired in a season or two. And that won't tell us much either.

My only issue with Lebron is that he gave up when the game was still a contest. Granted, they were a real long shot by that time but I've never seen a team or a star player roll over in a big game like that, opting to stat chase instead. Him giving up there surprised me but padding his numbers on top of it was a real shocker. It's almost as if he thought the points would help redeem him for another finals failure. It's a royal screw job that the media and a large segment of fans will lay this series loss on him but he helped create this burden and scoring empty points isn't the way to make it go away.